Is my OSA/sleep apnea diagnosis a scam?

MaxDarkside wrote:

Elle wrote:I sleep so much better since I was scammed into getting cpap. Some scams are so worth being duped.

LOL ! Hahaha... Me too !

Sarah... it's a disorder. A lot of people have it. I didn't know until my wife pointed out some of the symptoms. I didn't get a sleep study until I died and thank God spontaneously recovered in a parking lot. Since people meet certain criteria in order to get a sleep study, yes most come out diagnosed with the disorder. It's not a scam. It's a treatment for a life threatening disorder.

One reason you get blow-back here is because adapting to the treatment is difficult for many. Anyone who suggests that it's a scam is enabling some people having a hard time adapting to doubt their treatment and stop trying, which could result in fatalities. Yes, you can sit back in your chair and wonder if you just killed a few people. Nice job.

No offense, but can we be realistic here? Everyone has an OPINION. If people are determining their medical course of action because of opinions that people post on a web site - that is absurd. I am not "controlling" people nor am I able to physically make them do or not do anything. The fact is, this over-reaching effect of doctors prescribing sleep studies is now being investigated by the AMA and Congress.

Elle wrote:It's "moral" not morale genius

One thing's obvious: For getting so much "great sleep" and "feeling wonderful" - you people are the most-miserable people I've ever seen. The last time I saw a group of people like this they were selling posies at the airport.

Sarah,

I thought that's what you were referencing. Got it.

I think the patient themselves are solely responsible and owe it to themselves to explore the cause of the issues before consulting a physician. It would be in their best interest to try to resolve all issues before seeking medical intervention, especially if paying out of pocket.

Let's explore some of the examples. I'll be very brief, since there are lots of things that could be added, but I'd take up a whole page and then some...

In people who only snore, snoring can wake them up during sleep (and/or a bed partner) which results in fragmented sleep, which results in poor quality of sleep, which results in exhaustion and a host of other symptoms. Snoring has been determined to be a symptom, but not a cause of SA. Without a sleep test to determine how/why they snore, they won't know for sure if they do stop breathing during snoring (and gasping for the intake breath) or how detrimental it is to their sleep. I can't say I've never known anybody to go to a doctor for snoring alone, but if it's significant enough, I sure can see why some people would.

In people that are overweight only with no other symptoms, I can't say I've ever heard or read of anyone being sent to a sleep study without a determining factor to warrant the test. In any number of patient questionnaires, I am positive the patient would have referenced something to point the doc in that direction. Having SA just because someone is overweight is a major sterotype and whoever sees a doctor who thinks in THAT closed minded of a method wouldn't benefit from being under that doctor's medical care for ANY issue, let alone SA. Out of 62K members on this site and 72K topics of discussion, I find it incredible that posts about being sent to a sleep study "just because I was overweight" wouldn't show up somewhere. We could set up a poll to see if anyone here has been sent for a sleep study just for being overweight, with no other symptoms. I'd be interested in seeing the responses.

In people who only sleep "x" hours a night, if the patient has tried to determine the cause of their lack of sleep (according to the 7+ hour a night recommendation) because they feel the sleep they are getting is not enough, I don't think it's off base to go have a sleep study done. Of course, I also believe a person who decides to go that route should have already tried to determine if their sleep hygiene is the problem, or stress, or whatever may be inducing the problem. A lack of 7 hours sleep may be a problem for some people, for others it is not. I can't say I've never known anybody to go to a doctor for short hours of sleep, especially if they feel the sleep quality is there, but if it's not and the side effects are significant enough, I sure can see why some people would.

In any event, the purpose of my post is that although it seems to you that "everyone" tests positive, you must understand that there are so many different and varying levels of SA that it's a very good chance someone will have a determining factor based on the medical criteria that must be met in order to have the diagnosis. Whew! That was a long sentence! LOL

Insulting Canadians is of the level of 'cousin marrying' ignorance. You just lost all cred. au revoir.

Sarah Kennedy wrote:No offense, but can we be realistic here? Everyone has an OPINION. If people are determining their medical course of action because of opinions that people post on a web site - that is absurd. I am not "controlling" people nor am I able to physically make them do or not do anything. The fact is, this over-reaching effect of doctors prescribing sleep studies is now being investigated by the AMA and Congress.

The opinions here, really more "experiences" of other patients, are very beneficial. It has really helped me a lot. This is one of the best patient-to-patient support groups on the internet. Each of us makes judgements about what we read here and choose whether they apply to us and if we deem so, try things to improve our treatment. Enabling people to doubt their treatment is not helpful. I'm guessing if the AMA and Congress are investigating (which I've not heard), I think they will conclude that more people need sleep studies, as studies show about 75% of people with Sleep Apnea don't know it and continue their nightly torture unknowingly slowly killing themselves.

Sarah Kennedy wrote: ... the obvious question remains: Where were all of these cases 15 years ago?

These people were sometimes living miserable lives and wishing they could understand why and that someone could put a name on what was wrong with them.

Of course any potential money maker carries the possibility (probabilty?) of scam by the greedy and unethical. My personal viewpoint is that those are the few, and they do not negate the work of those who do their jobs with integrity. Whether we live life wearing rose colored glasses or in abject cynicism, reality is likely somewhere along the spectrum in between. One life lesson for me was realizing that me believing or not believing something doesn't make it any more or less true in another's experience. Of course we all THINK we're right, but our experiences are really miniscule is the big scheme of things. I had a dear friend (RIP) who taught me me that just because I didn't understand what she was going through, it didn't make her experience any less valid. She told me that I didn't have to understand, I just had to believe her and trust that she knew herself far better than I, an outsider, could presume to know her. It widened my world to recognize my limitations and open my opinionated mind to learn from the experiences of others. Maybe my experience of having not just one but multiple diagnoses that are highly suspect in the eyes of cynics helped me grow in that area. No doctor or pharmaceutical company created a syndrome and brainwashed me into believing I had it - they simply put a name on what was already present but unidentified. For that I am thankful. I may not fully comprehend another's experience, but I sure understand my own.

Robysue, I really don't like to feed the trolls, but sometimes they just remind me of something I wanted to say anyway.

Sarah Kennedy wrote:
No offense, but can we be realistic here? Everyone has an OPINION. If people are determining their medical course of action because of opinions that people post on a web site - that is absurd. I am not "controlling" people nor am I able to physically make them do or not do anything. The fact is, this over-reaching effect of doctors prescribing sleep studies is now being investigated by the AMA and Congress.

Total Bull shit. We would be the first to know this. The thing AMA might be investigating is the unethical conduct of many DME's. OSA an sleep studies are not in question in the USA or THE REST OF THE WORLD! The only thing the might be investigating is how to do MORE of them more cheaply.

Your personal OPINION is worthless without medical data to support it. Totally invalid. Opinions aren't worth toilet paper.

Sarah Kennedy wrote:

Elle wrote:It's "moral" not morale genius

One thing's obvious: For getting so much "great sleep" and "feeling wonderful" - you people are the most-miserable people I've ever seen. The last time I saw a group of people like this they were selling posies at the airport.

That's the hard part for someone to understand when they don't have a sleep breathing disorder (or someone who has it and is in denial). For many, it is not an overnight miracle. It takes time and plenty of courage to keep going.

There are many people here who are in the adjustment stage (whether they've just been strapped up or have been at it for years) who still feel horrible. That's why this forum is so important: they have somewhere to come and solve the problems they are having with their own treatment and gain support from someone else who's walked a few miles in their shoes. It's an important part of success, not a brainwashing.

notyorz wrote: In people that are overweight only with no other symptoms, I can't say I've ever heard or read of anyone being sent to a sleep study without a determining factor to warrant the test.

It has become routine to insist that a person who is morbidly obese and who is interested in gastric by-pass surgery or lab band surgery get a sleep test before being approved for surgery. Moreover, it's also become common practice that doctors insist on several weeks or months of 100% CPAP compliance for those persons wanting weight-loss surgery who do test positive on their pre-op NPSG before they (the doctors) are willing to approve the patient for surgery.

And a certain percentage of these obese patients are very shocked to find out that they've got moderate to severe apnea because they (the patients) did not list any of the "obvious" OSA symptoms in their answers to the pre-surgery screening questionaires. I've seen a number of these folks posting on another forum I frequent as well as a few here in the last two years.

Sarah Kennedy wrote:...you people are the most-miserable people I've ever seen.

Could be true! Try strangling yourself 30-60 times per hour during your sleep for 30 years and see how you feel LOL! For me, I was being strangled, not at all breathing, about 48 times per hour. Ya, I was one of the most miserable people. Now, I feel GREAT, better than I have for 20 years I'll venture, and 90% of that is due to the sharing of experiences by people here.

robysue wrote:

notyorz wrote: In people that are overweight only with no other symptoms, I can't say I've ever heard or read of anyone being sent to a sleep study without a determining factor to warrant the test.

It has become routine to insist that a person who is morbidly obese and who is interested in gastric by-pass surgery or lab band surgery get a sleep test before being approved for surgery. Moreover, it's also become common practice that doctors insist on several weeks or months of 100% CPAP compliance for those persons wanting weight-loss surgery who do test positive on their pre-op NPSG before they (the doctors) are willing to approve the patient for surgery.

And a certain percentage of these obese patients are very shocked to find out that they've got moderate to severe apnea because they (the patients) did not list any of the "obvious" OSA symptoms in their answers to the pre-surgery screening questionaires. I've seen a number of these folks posting on another forum I frequent as well as a few here in the last two years.

Exactly correct, but I took Sarah's comments to mean that the overweight person was ordered to do the sleep study on the premise that the person was overweight, that alone and by itself, and not as a prerequisite for a surgery..

notyorz wrote:

Sarah Kennedy wrote:

Elle wrote:It's "moral" not morale genius

One thing's obvious: For getting so much "great sleep" and "feeling wonderful" - you people are the most-miserable people I've ever seen. The last time I saw a group of people like this they were selling posies at the airport.

That's the hard part for someone to understand when they don't have a sleep breathing disorder (or someone who has it and is in denial). For many, it is not an overnight miracle. It takes time and plenty of courage to keep going.

There are many people here who are in the adjustment stage (whether they've just been strapped up or have been at it for years) who still feel horrible. That's why this forum is so important: they have somewhere to come and solve the problems they are having with their own treatment and gain support from someone else who's walked a few miles in their shoes. It's an important part of success, not a brainwashing.

One good suggestion may be to not let people post anything contrary to what your forum tries to encourage. In other words, the ORIGINAL gentleman on this particular post, who seriously questioned whether or not this was a scam - that should never have been allowed, because I took that as part of a discussion forum. Instead, it's obviously for people who believe only one way and that's fine too - but I guess a moderator should have deleted his original post or anyone questioning the validity of this to keep everyone happy. As far as people coming on here for support, I truly feel sorry for anyone who is not breathing, but if you have someone who is questioning something, the methods of communication exhibited here ["you're dumb, stupid, you just killed someone, etc."] are a total turn-off to support your cause. This is NOT how to win someone to your way of thinking. Again, thank you for being fair and open-minded.

Sarah Kennedy wrote:...the methods of communication exhibited here ["you're dumb, stupid, you just killed someone, etc."] are a total turn-off to support your cause.

We don't have a cause. We have a sleep related breathing disorder. Thanks!

MaxDarkside wrote:

Sarah Kennedy wrote:...the methods of communication exhibited here ["you're dumb, stupid, you just killed someone, etc."] are a total turn-off to support your cause.

We don't have a cause. We have a sleep related breathing disorder. Thanks!

Okay, whatever; cause is a word - could have said forum, chat room, blog, fill in the blank.

Sarah Kennedy wrote: One good suggestion may be to not let people post anything contrary to what your forum tries to encourage. In other words, the ORIGINAL gentleman on this particular post, who seriously questioned whether or not this was a scam - that should never have been allowed, because I took that as part of a discussion forum. Instead, it's obviously for people who believe only one way and that's fine too - but I guess a moderator should have deleted his original post or anyone questioning the validity of this to keep everyone happy. As far as people coming on here for support, I truly feel sorry for anyone who is not breathing, but if you have someone who is questioning something, the methods of communication exhibited here ["you're dumb, stupid, you just killed someone, etc."] are a total turn-off to support your cause. This is NOT how to win someone to your way of thinking. Again, thank you for being fair and open-minded.

That would be total censorship presenting only one sided views, agreed? How very boring would that be. But alas, this is a support forum, and for the most part, it IS very supportive. The powers that be that set up this forum left it largely unmoderated for their own reasons, but one benefit is that topics *could* be debated and different opinions explored. I enjoy reading a good debate (and even participating in one now and then) and although data from an accomplished source is always valued in a debate, sometimes just a well thought out opinion sits ok with me too.

I kind of saw where you were headed with this and I understand the frustration in your posts, but I think it's misdirected anger towards a medical system that could use some major improvement. Are there tests completed based on frivolous information? Sure there are. Are there misdiagnoses every day in the medical world? Sure there are. That's why I believe wholeheartedly in patient self advocacy and consider it extremely important for the patient to learn for themselves what is going on with their own healthcare. If they are not able to do that for themselves, it is vital they find someone who can help them. Some turn here for that help.

Oh, and questioning something shouldn't cause a riot LOL...