Update from the insomnia wars ...

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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robysue
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Re: Update from the insomnia wars ...

Post by robysue » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:52 pm

Muse-Inc wrote:Oh, 2 other suggestions from my sleep doc:

when you wake up, count your breaths from 1 to 20, then repeat as often as needed; he uses this technique. Being very visual, as I count I picture the numbers form and fade...just enough to distract me from whatever else I might focus on. Works pretty well.
Been there, done this, and it doesn't work for me. Probably because I just keep going like the energizer bunny ....

True story: In first grade, my teacher asked every kid (individually) to count as high as they could to see how well we knew our numbers. She told me to stop at something like 250 or 300 and I just wanted to keep on going and going and ....

Pre-CPAP I would use Deep, cleansing breaths (from yoga) to both clear my mind and relax me when I either couldn't get to sleep or when I would wake up at night. I've tried unsuccessfully to do this since starting CPAP, but every time I try to do a deep, cleansing breath, I feel like the stuffed goose from night 3. The aerophagia/stuffed goose feeling has robbed me of this very valuable tool in my anti-insomnia tactics. And I miss it greatly.
Get out to bed and go do something fairly boring for awhile if you don't fall back to sleep pretty soon.
Doing this---even before this round of insomnia I would use this. This is one of the rules my PA has me enforcing strictly. And it does work for me: Got out of bed once last night because after the first wake up, it was clear I was getting more awake after lying in bed for a mere 10 minutes. After 10 minutes of sitting in the dining room (where there is no clock), I went back to bed, put the mask on, hit the ramp button and fell asleep within 5 minutes.
RobySue, I use Badger lip balm (coffee or orange flavor), generous application...it lasts me thru the entire night, most of the others don't. Maybe you'll have the same good results. I get it at Whole Markets tho some health food stores carry 'em.
Hate the flavored stuff---I lick it off my lips and that chaps them more.

And the night time problem right now is that the stuff that has always lasted through the night pre-CPAP just does NOT hold up all night to the force of the Swift FX's exhaust flow bouncing off of everything and creating a turbulent airflow around my lips that's more than enough to chap them. It's like sleeping under a dang hotel A/C vent that stuck on HIGH every single night. (And that always chaps my lips too.) I've always absolutely HATED sleeping under a STRONG WIND and that's what the CPAP feels like.

As for changing masks. The FX is comfortable--other than its exhaust flow. And I've looked at other masks at the DME at length to study where their exhaust vents are and what the angle of the holes are. Well, in my humble opinion, any nasal mask or nasal pillows mask would have a problem similar to the FX: The exhaust flow is bound to bounce off the covers, pillows, and my hubby's body since I don't want to route the hose over my head because I need to bury my head into my husband's shoulder (for comfort reasons). And I'm not a mouth breather. And my guess is that if I were to try a FFM, the direct air blowing on my lips would just make the problem even WORSE along with the itching and sneezing that prevented me from being able to handle a nasal mask in the first place.

So for now, sleeping with a chapstick in my hand works: When I wake up, I can slather the lips with chapstick and get back to sleep. It's a comfort issue. I don't actually think the lips are what's waking me up, but once I'm awake, I notice the lips are in pain, so if I don't slather them, they're capable of keeping me awake. Sleeping with the chapstick fixes that problem easily enough.

As for what is waking me up? There's some tantalizing evidence from Encore Viewer that I may be waking up coming out of each and every REM cycle. The timing of the wake ups is just about right: 80-90 minutes apart most nights---if there's not other obvious explanation such as a nasty leak or the cat jumping on my face (he can push the bedroom door open if it's not properly latched). Along with a growing tendency to wake-up after the now rarer-ish apnea clusters: If I now have 2 or 3 apneas really close together, they are very often followed by me waking up as evidenced by my hitting the ramp shortly after the cluster happened. So maybe this is evidence my sleep structure is beginning to consolidate after all.

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Machine: DreamStation BiPAP® Auto Machine
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PR System DreamStation and Humidifier. Max IPAP = 9, Min EPAP=4, Rise time setting = 3, minPS = 3, maxPS=5

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jbn3boys
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Re: Update from the insomnia wars ...

Post by jbn3boys » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:36 pm

robysue wrote:And the night time problem right now is that the stuff that has always lasted through the night pre-CPAP just does NOT hold up all night to the force of the Swift FX's exhaust flow bouncing off of everything and creating a turbulent airflow around my lips that's more than enough to chap them. It's like sleeping under a dang hotel A/C vent that stuck on HIGH every single night. (And that always chaps my lips too.) I've always absolutely HATED sleeping under a STRONG WIND and that's what the CPAP feels like.
I just saw in the last day or two (probably on an old post), that some people have made a "cover" for the exhaust out of some type of filter material. I guess it doesn't take much material (porous, filter material), to diffuse the "wind". It might be worth looking into. Definitely not something that would cut down on the exhaust itself, but just something to diffuse it a little might help.
edited: I found the post! viewtopic/t54961/Swift-FX-air-blast-fixed.html
robysue wrote:And my guess is that if I were to try a FFM, the direct air blowing on my lips would just make the problem even WORSE along with the itching and sneezing that prevented me from being able to handle a nasal mask in the first place.
It COULD be that with a full face mask, and the heated humidifier going, you just might have a moist enough environment to avoid the chapped lips. But, I'm certainly not saying it would work...just that it could, maybe.
robysue wrote:So for now, sleeping with a chapstick in my hand works: When I wake up, I can slather the lips with chapstick and get back to sleep. It's a comfort issue. I don't actually think the lips are what's waking me up, but once I'm awake, I notice the lips are in pain, so if I don't slather them, they're capable of keeping me awake. Sleeping with the chapstick fixes that problem easily enough.
And when you find something that works....stick with it! No matter how many other ideas we give you here on the forums!
robysue wrote:.... So maybe this is evidence my sleep structure is beginning to consolidate after all.
Yeah! Hang on to that idea!! It is getting better! And once it starts getting better (which it has), it may just keep getting better!

I'm wishing you restful sleep tonight!

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Mask: Swift™ FX For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: titration 11
Sleep study (Aug 2010): AHI 16 (On mask AHI 0.2) <-- Now, if I could just attain that "0.2" again!
aPAP for 4 months, Switched to BiPap, 2nd sleep study Feb 2011 Possible PLMD
to quote Madalot..."I'm an enigma"

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robysue
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Re: Update from the insomnia wars ...

Post by robysue » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:44 pm

jbn3boys wrote:
robysue wrote:And the night time problem right now is that the stuff that has always lasted through the night pre-CPAP just does NOT hold up all night to the force of the Swift FX's exhaust flow bouncing off of everything and creating a turbulent airflow around my lips that's more than enough to chap them. It's like sleeping under a dang hotel A/C vent that stuck on HIGH every single night. (And that always chaps my lips too.) I've always absolutely HATED sleeping under a STRONG WIND and that's what the CPAP feels like.
I just saw in the last day or two (probably on an old post), that some people have made a "cover" for the exhaust out of some type of filter material. I guess it doesn't take much material (porous, filter material), to diffuse the "wind". It might be worth looking into. Definitely not something that would cut down on the exhaust itself, but just something to diffuse it a little might help.
Been there, done that, and it does help to minimize the problem. And boy oh boy do I notice it when I have to sleep with the FX with my extra cover NOT in place for some reason ...

_________________
Machine: DreamStation BiPAP® Auto Machine
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PR System DreamStation and Humidifier. Max IPAP = 9, Min EPAP=4, Rise time setting = 3, minPS = 3, maxPS=5

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Muse-Inc
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Re: Update from the insomnia wars ...

Post by Muse-Inc » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:37 pm

RobySue, there's a great biofeedback trainer from The Heartmath Institute that you might might helpful..a possible replacement for the deep breathing you used to do. Works on entraining all the electrical generators in our body to the heart. Just a thought. I had one of the original PC versions and loved it, then I got the handheld version with the ear clip...love it even more. When I stressed at bedtime, I tend to grab it and practice until I reach a nice level of entrainment and then go to sleep easily, 'cept for the rare night when it's just a bad night.
ResMed S9 range 9.8-17, RespCare Hybrid FFM
Never, never, never, never say never.

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elena88
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Re: Update from the insomnia wars ...

Post by elena88 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:54 pm

OMG, Robysue you have been thru the ringer, I really feel for you, and wish I could sprinkle some sleepy dust on you and just knock
you out for a good nights REST..

I have also been an unbearable insomniac, but I discovered it was all due to the OSA.. well mostly.. I didnt know I had RLS
but its not the usual.. its a hot burning sensation on my arms and legs and everywhere.. and I think that might cause some arousals..

The CBT didnt work a lick for me... one tip did though..

I was downloading a chapter of one of the sleep books on kindle (thanks hubby!) (xmas present)

and the one thing that screamed out at me was this..

When going to sleep find a position that is COMFORTABLE AND SUSTAINABLE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME..
I had never thought of that! Im hardly ever comfortable when I lie down.. something hurts or everything hurts.. so I thought BINGO!
PAIN can cause insomnia.. and this is the kind of pain you are so used to mentally that you block it out, but I guess your body is still feeling it..
Anyway, every night now, I spend several minutes testing a position to see if its SUSTAINABLE.. the most pain free position..
and I found that it helped.. Im so sorry you are going through this, because without rest, your world just starts to crumble into so many pieces..
and I know you are trying desperately to make this work.. I tried too, and I couldnt make it work, the apap would not allow me to get any rest, and
I nearly lost everything.. and I know you know what I mean..
I hope with all my heart that you find a solution...

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Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: sleep study: slept 66 min in stage 2 AHI 43.3 had 86 spontaneous arousals I changed pressure from 11 to 4cm now no apap tummy sleeping solved apnea

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secret agent girl
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Post by secret agent girl » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:28 am

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