123 L/min median leak.

So I'm looking at the report that the DME sent me and these numbers kinda surprised me...

Leak - L/min
Median: 123.6 95th percentile: 145.2 Maximum: 151.2

Best I can tell those are off the charts. The leak graph only goes up to 40 L/m.

Speaking of the graph... this would be through the morning of the 17th.



I take that to mean most of the time I have no leaks. But sometimes I do and when I do, it's consistent. I don't have any more information than that, because even though the machine can record more data, they didn't send it to me. I suspect that, maybe, the leaks are only when I'm getting set up for the night or waking up in the morning.

But, assuming not, what should I go look for? Something to try? I'm thinking a different pillow might be in order.

I haven't set up the software, yet but will soon and I was smart enough to make a copy of the files that were on the SD card so I ought to be able to get the data I gave the DME.

just because the scale only goes up to 40, that doesn't mean the data isn't above that - I would ask for night by night information on the medians if it were me

if your leaks are that excessive, you need to reconsider the mask you are using

Yeah, after I posted I noticed the outline is missing on most of the green bars... so they're literally off the charts.

I'm looking at the detailed data now that I've gotten the SW up and running & it's happening consistently throughout the night.

Also my rendering of that graph has zero days with no leaks. I'm not sure what the heck is up with that, but it's consistently leaking every night, throughout the night. A lot.

So yeah, new mask time.

did you use it every night? I am wondering if the leak was that excessive that no therapy hours were even recorded.

if you think this it out of line (your data) you might want to ask your DME for a trial on another data capable machine and see if you continue to have this excessive of leaks using this same mask

I would even wonder if there was a "hole" in your hose or loose fittings on your mask seals or the cover on humidifier was left open or anything crazy like that --

Yeah, I've used it every night... I think I've skipped it once in the last six years, though that was the previous machine. I can really tell if I don't use it at all... IIRC the first sleep study said something like AHI > 122, though I haven't been able to convince anyone to give me a copy of the sleep studys.

I don't think there's a hole in the hose... I've actually had that failure mode once & it was pretty obvious in the morning. It's like I didn't have it at all and I physically ache.

This chart was right up and until I replaced the nose pillows and mouth cushion. I just looked at the data for the last few nights and the leak situation is improved, although not great. Mean was 21.6 but 95th percentile and max were still off the charts. The graph looks a little better, 4 out of the last 5 nights are at least on average under the "really bad" red line. The nose pillows were definitely worn out.

It's a little hard to see on this version, but here it is...


I have no clue why the version the DME sent me implied that there were whole nights with no leaks, that's just not the case.

I'm thinking I might try a better pillow, one meant for letting me sleep on my side with the mask on.

My wife thinks what's happening is that my lower lip falls out of the mask and that's what leaks.

Oh and it recorded something like six-ish hours of usage on average with no skipped days.

Also one time I did leave the humidifier door ajar, there's an error for that, IIRC. If not, there was some really obvious failure mode that made me fix it right away.

Oh also, new hose, gotten with the new machine ~1.5 months ago, so it's not worn out, yet.

A couple nights I did over-fill the humidifier and it caused some rain out, but the mask blocked it just fine, so it never reached me. I popped the hose off the mask for a coupe minutes & let it spew water out & it was all good.

That's a whole different question I have, though. The humidifier is a lot smaller than the old one & being heated, means I'm actually running out of water before the morning. It's barely enough if I don't pre-heat it at all and make sure to fill right up to the max fill line.

ohammersmith wrote:That's a whole different question I have, though. The humidifier is a lot smaller than the old one & being heated, means I'm actually running out of water before the morning. It's barely enough if I don't pre-heat it at all and make sure to fill right up to the max fill line.

Excessive leakage will use up more water. You need to get the leaks under control before getting wound up about water usage.

ohammersmith wrote: Oh also, new hose, gotten with the new machine ~1.5 months ago, so it's not worn out, yet.

With those kinds of leaks there's GOT to be a problem in the system somewhere. Have you looked at any of the detailed leak graphs to see when the largest leaks occur at night and how long they last? Is it possible that you're partially pulling the mask off and not noticing it for long periods of time?

I'd check for multiple small holes or tears in the hose myself just to be sure. Eyeball it carefully first. Then hook it up and start the S9 and start feeling for leaks. Or hook it up to a bathroom faucet and run as much water through the hose as you can---hold one end of the hose closed to see if water starts spraying out somewhere.

Check to make sure there's not a crack in the spot where you attach the hose to the humidifier too. And is it possible you're partially pulling the hose off the humidifier connection somehow?

Any cracks or holes anywhere in the mask or the pillows? Is one of parts of the mask not properly reassembled? Is it possible that a flap for an anti-asphyxiation valve is not in place?

And have you tried trouble shooting while you're awake? You know---putting the mask on, turning the machine on, lying down in bed, and even pretending to take a nap for say thirty minutes. And then looking at the leak data for that nap period in the detailed data in ResScan. Or to see if you're really doing heavy-duty mouth breathing, have your spouse watch you for a while either when you're napping during the day or for an hour or so when you're asleep at night?

ohammersmith wrote:So I'm looking at the report that the DME sent me and these numbers kinda surprised me...

Leak - L/min
Median: 123.6 95th percentile: 145.2 Maximum: 151.2

Best I can tell those are off the charts. The leak graph only goes up to 40 L/m.

Speaking of the graph... this would be through the morning of the 17th.



I take that to mean most of the time I have no leaks. But sometimes I do and when I do, it's consistent. I don't have any more information than that, because even though the machine can record more data, they didn't send it to me. I suspect that, maybe, the leaks are only when I'm getting set up for the night or waking up in the morning.

But, assuming not, what should I go look for? Something to try? I'm thinking a different pillow might be in order.

I haven't set up the software, yet but will soon and I was smart enough to make a copy of the files that were on the SD card so I ought to be able to get the data I gave the DME.

You can buy better looking graphs from CPAP.com!

Good call on the water levels because of leaks, I hadn't thought of that. Will try to sort this out first.

I have looked at a couple nights worth of detailed data & didn't see anything specific... I was half expecting to see it count when I hook up at night or disconnect in the morning as a "leak". No such luck. I have some more nights worth of detailed data but need to bust out the Windows machine. Will post pics later, but from memory it was irregular, but throughout the night. It would leak for a while, a lot, then stop and be fine for hours at a time.

I put the hose back in the hook I have set up above the bed to guarantee there's no chance I'm pulling the hose out. It would also be some trick to put it back in at night, without remembering it.

FWIW, this is the new heated hose. Can't imagine what difference that would make, but in the interest of including all information.

I did check the hose for leaks when lying down... so there might be a couple spots I couldn't touch. But since the first time I had a hole in a hose, I've been checking it every time something doesn't feel quite right. That kind of failure is a pretty catastrophic event for me and I feel like complete ass in the morning.

The flap for the valve is in place.

When I replaced the face cushion it wasn't quite well seated, but I usually notice when it's come apart a bit. The change in leak rate isn't so dramatic that I think that was the sole cause of the problem.

Re: mouth breathing, it's a Liberty mask so my mouth is covered by it... i.e., I'm not leaking out my mouth.

Will check the new data and see if it's clear what's going on. If not, then I'll troubleshoot while I'm awake. Might even see if I still have an old quattro mask around and try that to see if it gets less leakage.

ohammersmith wrote:...a Liberty mask...

I can't get the Liberty to stop leaking, that's why I wear the Hybrid. The mask/pillows can leak if the seal is not good or broken with movement.

Muse-Inc wrote:

ohammersmith wrote:...a Liberty mask...

I can't get the Liberty to stop leaking, that's why I wear the Hybrid. The mask/pillows can leak if the seal is not good or broken with movement.

Yeah I thought I had leaks contained. It certainly is better than the quattro I had.. the couple others I tried were horrifically bad.

Ok so this is the graph from last night. I was really diligent about fitting the mask exactly like the instructions say, etc, etc. I felt pretty good this morning, but now I'm tired. Looked at the graph & I think I see why.

Basically the first couple hours, leaks were okay. Then things went sideways.



So I think the fact that it was nominal leakage for a few hours into a night eliminates any possibility of the hose or some other part of the system leaking. It has to be the mask.

I think I'm gonna try a CPAP pillow next. Any recommendations?

Also is there a way to get the data out of this and do my own graph? Rescan only shows up to 40 L/min, which is bizarre because the expected leak rate of the on the Liberty at my pressure (12cm H2O) is supposed to be 40 L/min +/- 6 L/min, so I think the nominal leak is somewhere around 64 L/min.

Which brings me to my next question... if the mask is supposed to be leaking 40 L/min then why are there times when I'm seeing 0 L/min leakage?

Maybe that graph is the "above expected" leak rate... but then where do I set the expected leak rate? Maybe I just have that set wrong somewhere. I don't think it makes the numbers look good, but maybe fixing a setting like that would make it appear less catastrophic.

I figured out how to coax a better graph out of Rescan.

Oh and I figured out the maximal flow rate for this machine at my pressure w/ the humidifier is supposedly 118.something L/min. So when this thing leaks it's entirely ineffective.