Evolution behind OSA

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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BlackSpinner
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Evolution behind OSA

Post by BlackSpinner » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:12 am

for Rooster and others:
effects of evolution
8. Our brains squeeze our teeth
A genetic mutation in our recent ancestors caused their descendants to have roomy skulls that accommodated larger brains. This may seem like pure success—brilliance, or its antecedent anyway. But the gene that made way for a larger brain did so by diverting bone away from our jaws, which caused them to become thinner and smaller. With smaller jaws, we could not eat tough food as easily as our thicker-jawed ancestors, but we could think our way out of that problem with the use of fire and stone tools. Yet because our teeth are roughly the same size as they have long been, our shrinking jaws don’t leave enough room for them in our mouths. Our wisdom teeth need to be pulled because our brains are too big.

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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by Muse-Inc » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:01 pm

Wow, cool tidbit!
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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by -SWS » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:29 pm

BlackSpinner wrote:
Our wisdom teeth need to be pulled because our brains are too big.
So our final molars are forsaken in the dentist's chair because of our increased wisdom (i.e. large brains). Wonder if that's why they became known as "wisdom teeth"---or if the nickname simply had to do with how late in adolescence those final molars arrive.

Interesting! Thanks, BlackSpinner.

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roster
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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by roster » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:35 pm

Eat dirt.
The last teeth to develop and erupt into the jaws are called the third molars. Third molars usually erupt in the late teen years, which coincides with passage into adulthood and is referred to by some as the age of wisdom; hence "wisdom teeth". Unfortunately, the wisdom teeth are now usually trying to erupt into a jaw that is too small.

Wisdom teeth used to serve a useful purpose, but are now considered vestigial organs. A vestige is a degenerative or imperfectly formed organ or structure having little or no utility, but in the earlier stage of development of a species performed a useful function. The reasons that wisdom teeth are now "outdated" are many. Until quite recently, our diet included mostly very coarse food, as well as impurities such as dirt and sand. This coarseness would abrade teeth so significantly that they would take up less space in the jaw. Permanent teeth were also frequently lost at an early age, which would create more space in the jaw. Because the diet was so coarse and hard to chew, the jaw itself would develop into a larger bone because of this constant workout. All of these factors would create more space for the wisdom teeth when they came in.

The heavily processed diet of today does not produce the tooth abrasion or jaw development that we used to see. Modern dentistry has pretty much eliminated significant loss of permanent teeth at an early age. This leaves us with too many teeth and not enough jaw. The wisdom teeth still develop as they always have, but they have no where to go. When this happens, the teeth are considered "impacted," meaning that they are not in normal position and function.

http://www.oralsurgerycare.com/wisdomteeth.html
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I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related

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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by BlackSpinner » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:48 pm

roster wrote:Eat dirt.
Until quite recently, our diet included mostly very coarse food, as well as impurities such as dirt and sand. This coarseness would abrade teeth so significantly that they would take up less space in the jaw. Permanent teeth were also frequently lost at an early age, which would create more space in the jaw. Because the diet was so coarse and hard to chew, the jaw itself would develop into a larger bone because of this constant workout.
I would like to see comparison done forensically on older bones before I accept that over my quote. My wisdom teeth didn't seem to care that I had lost a molar earlier.
Also hard work does strengthen bone but where it attaches to muscles is where it gets stronger. So that would be up near the brow ridge which already shows more strength for males then females which mean that according to your theory more women would have OSA which is not true.

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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by -SWS » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:56 pm

It's not just wisdom teeth either!
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22usele ... =firefox-a

I like the idea of telling people at cocktail parties that I had my wisdom teeth taken out because my brain was too big.

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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:56 pm

My dentist says I have never had wisdom teeth. What does that mean?

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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by BlackSpinner » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:48 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:My dentist says I have never had wisdom teeth. What does that mean?
You are a highly evolved human?

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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:07 pm

I prefer to think I was spared some pain.

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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by Twentysix » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:28 pm

I have small jaws, but have all my wisdom teeth neatly aligned at the back. Never been a problem. And yes, my brain works pretty well too. Surely I'm not the only one with their wisdom teeth? I think many dentists just out of habit pull them out, while often it is not necessary.

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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by BlackSpinner » Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:48 pm

Until quite recently, our diet included mostly very coarse food, as well as impurities such as dirt and sand. This coarseness would abrade teeth so significantly that they would take up less space in the jaw. Permanent teeth were also frequently lost at an early age, which would create more space in the jaw. Because the diet was so coarse and hard to chew, the jaw itself would develop into a larger bone because of this constant workout.
I wanted to get back to this after thinking about it.
This coarseness would abrade teeth so significantly that they would take up less space in the jaw.
Teeth get abrade from the top down - you only need to look at Inuit womens teeth (they chew the leather before sewing it) This doesn't make teeth more narrow.
Permanent teeth were also frequently lost at an early age, which would create more space in the jaw.
In order for the wisdom teeth , which come in sometime between 18 - 28, to fit in, you have to loose a molar on each side well before 18-20 but these people were also eating no sugar or white flour which is what gets blamed for most of our decay. In fact most Nat. Geo. photos of hunter gatherers show brilliant white shiny teeth.
and hard to chew, the jaw itself would develop into a larger bone because of this constant workout.
Well the bone would be a bigger jaw bone in all directions but it wouldn't a wider jaw or have more space - it would just be fatter.

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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by roster » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:01 pm

BlackSpinner wrote:
roster wrote:Eat dirt.
Until quite recently, our diet included mostly very coarse food, as well as impurities such as dirt and sand. This coarseness would abrade teeth so significantly that they would take up less space in the jaw. Permanent teeth were also frequently lost at an early age, which would create more space in the jaw. Because the diet was so coarse and hard to chew, the jaw itself would develop into a larger bone because of this constant workout.
I would like to see comparison done forensically on older bones before I accept that over my quote. My wisdom teeth didn't seem to care that I had lost a molar earlier.
Also hard work does strengthen bone but where it attaches to muscles is where it gets stronger. So that would be up near the brow ridge which already shows more strength for males then females which mean that according to your theory more women would have OSA which is not true.

The groundbreaking work on this problem that developed in agricultural societies was done by Dr. Weston Price and today these issues are addressed by holistic dentists or orthodontists specializing in the treatment of malocclusions and TMD.

You don't have to look at forensic work on older bones. Dr. Price did work, including the taking of photographs, in the 1930s of societies with primitive diets/well-developed jaw structures and societies with refined diets/poorly-developed jaw structures. A great article and photographs is at http://www.westonaprice.org/dentistry/1 ... apnea.html . The photographs near the end of the article are very instructive.

I am very skeptical of this statement in the Smithsonian article you linked to:
But the gene that made way for a larger brain did so by diverting bone away from our jaws, which caused them to become thinner and smaller.
I would like to know what evidence they have that this was the case. I would also point out that many people with a typical size human brain also have a well-developed jaw - direct contradiction of the Smithsonian statement about genes. Some examples,

Image

Image
Examples of excellent facial development: Note the broad middle portion of the face, well-developed lower jar and smoothness (lack of sags or circles) under the eyes. These individual (sic) illustrate the full expression of our genetic blueprint.

http://www.westonaprice.org/dentistry/2 ... ental.html
Rooster
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related

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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by roster » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:07 pm

BlackSpinner wrote: Well the bone would be a bigger jaw bone in all directions but it wouldn't a wider jaw or have more space - it would just be fatter.

I don't think that is correct. Breastfeeding and use of the jaw in chewing will help avoid the high-arched upper palate that is so often problematic in OSA and other pathologies. Use of the jaw during the developing years does contribute to a wider and deeper jaw.
Rooster
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related

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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by BlackSpinner » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:45 pm

You don't have to look at forensic work on older bones. Dr. Price did work, including the taking of photographs, in the 1930s of societies with primitive diets/well-developed jaw structures and societies with refined diets/poorly-developed jaw structures. A great article and photographs is at http://www.westonaprice.org/dentistry/1 ... apnea.html . The photographs near the end of the article are very instructive.
Yes carefully chosen photos of the "Happy noble savages" . I would prefer a bit more modern, well peer reviewed studies, thank you. Plus this totally contradicts your previous quotes about how they all lost their teeth before the wisdom teeth came in. Besides comparing different racial characteristics is kind of dated. Plus the twin study was totally un ethical.

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Re: Evolution behind OSA

Post by jnk » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:57 pm

I had part of my brain removed to make room for my teeth.

Image