Hybrid Mask bad experience

Last night I put together my new hybrid mask. I have been using a Swift FX and although I had it working OK I really could not move much or I would lose the seal. The pillows are not as well designed as the ones on the Hybrid. I was initially very pleased with the Hybrid. Before purchasing the mask I spoke with Ino med who are the distributor. The mask is made in China for Respcare. It is also sold by Devilbiss. Inomed told me that all of their masks will work with a person with faciaa hair. I had the mask on for about 30 minutes and was just falling asleep. All of a sudden there was a rush of air. It was as if the blower was running wide open. At first I thought it was my new climate line hose. I changed to the slimline but still the same. I adjusted the mask with no success. I was tired and should have left it for the morning. I was still thinking that the machine was too blame. Went into settings and everything looked OK. Tried the factory default to no avail. Tried CPAP mod and no change. Finally slept with no mask! I have been playing with the Hybrid this am . I have never worn any mask other than my Swift FX. I guess wearing a full face or hybrid mask is different. You notice the rush of air in he mouthpiece even though my pressure range is 6 -14. Am I correct in thinking that if there are leaks with a full face mask the air will rush as I experienced? I could feel my nostrils inflating like a balloon!! I tried a different mouthpiece and adjusted the nasal pillows. Helped slightly.I tightened up the straps to where they were distorting my face and that also helped some. I could hear the leaks this morning. I am convnced that with my beard and mustache this mask will not work. I am disappointed not only because I paid for something that does not work for me but also because I liked the design and I think it would give me some freedom to move slightly. Tonight I will go back to the Swift FX. I would like to have another mask but wonder if there is one that would work well with facial hair. CPAP.COM recommends some of the nasal gel masks. Any comments??

Thanks

Bob

Hi, I don't 'know' the Hybrid personally, but on my UltraMirage, there is a very small (3/4" if that) little soft rubber cover for the vent - lots of little holes in it - and if that comes loose (I stuff it back into the edges with a fingernail), then I get blasted by air. Your machine's probably got a very different type, but maybe the edge of some other part has dislodged and you haven't seen it yet.

Thanks for the reply Julie> This afternoon I fooled around with the mask and all the different size items. I finally realized that there was a lot of leakage on the bottom of the mouth piece. I realize that everyone has a different shape face but I would have to say there is a design flaw. Even with the straps cinched so tight that my face distorts air can still escape out the bottom. The chin flap is part of the problem. It prevents the mouth seal from contacting my face. The bottom of the mouth piece should be thicker. An even better design would have been a gel cushion! I am amazed that mo mask mfr. has come out with better seals. Perhpas something that is tubular and can be inflated with air. The tube would conform to your face. My face is not that strange in size or dimensions. Can you imagine trying to fit Jay Leno with a mask?? I have read where users have cut off the chin flap. This would enable better contact with the face but then I would be back to using chin straps! There is a small flap on th inlet tube of the mask . It is less than paper thin . Seems useless. Oh well it is back to using my Swift FX. I would still like to try a nasal mask like the Mirage softgel but I am not ready to become a mask collector. I think I will wait until I can find a supplier that will let me try one on.

Bob

If the design of the Innomed Hybrid mask gets changed there will be a bunch of us buying a lifetime supply of the current inventory and then raising holy hell with Innomed.

I have used the mask for four years while sleeping on my tummy and sides and am amazed at how comfortable it is and how it never leaks despite lots of rolling around in the bed.

Of course part of the success is making sure to select the size of the nasal pillows and mouth cushion that fit you properly; adjusting the headgear properly (lightly); and a couple of simple tricks.

If the mouth cushion is prevented from touching your face, then the sizing or headgear adjusting is wrong.

Here are some tips: viewtopic.php?t=14422&highlight=

I used Swift nasal pillows until the Hybrid was introduced and it did take a few nights to get the sizing, adjustments, and "tricks" just right. Now I can go months without readjusting the headgear and it is adjusted lightly on my face.

I doubt that many people get a new full face mask to work well the first night.

Why were you switching from nasal pillows to a full face mask?

Roster: I bought the nasal hybrid for a few reasons. If have a cold the Swift fx wont be much good. The swift is a good mask but the pillows are not a great design. You have to fool around to get a seal. I move around in the bed and the FX sometimes moves and I lose my seal. I was using an Ace bandage to prevent mouth leakage but now have a papcap and it works well. The Hybrid has a design flaw. The mouth seals do not work well if your chin sticks out. I have tried both the large and medium mouth piece and the large and medium pillows. The med. pillows work great. The lower part of the mouth piece does not contact my face well. Lots of leaks. I can tighten the straps but my face is already distorted. I tried bending the chin flap and that does help but I am leary of cutting the flap. If it still does not work I might as well toss it !! The little flap in the plastic tube does not seal well and lots of air comes out! I could cover it but must be there for a reason.

Bob

cortez356 wrote:Roster: I bought the nasal hybrid for a few reasons. If have a cold the Swift fx wont be much good. The swift is a good mask but the pillows are not a great design. You have to fool around to get a seal. I move around in the bed and the FX sometimes moves and I lose my seal. I was using an Ace bandage to prevent mouth leakage but now have a papcap and it works well. The Hybrid has a design flaw. The mouth seals do not work well if your chin sticks out. I have tried both the large and medium mouth piece and the large and medium pillows. The med. pillows work great. The lower part of the mouth piece does not contact my face well. Lots of leaks. I can tighten the straps but my face is already distorted. I tried bending the chin flap and that does help but I am leary of cutting the flap. If it still does not work I might as well toss it !! The little flap in the plastic tube does not seal well and lots of air comes out! I could cover it but must be there for a reason.

Bob

It makes sense that you have tried a full face mask for times when you mouthleak or times when you are congested and can't breath well through the nasal passages.

However, I disagree with you on two statements. The first is that the Hybrid has a design flaw. It could be, as you hint, that if your chin protrudes significantly, no combination of sizes and headgear adjustments will make the mask work well for you. This is not a design flaw. It is just that the mask will not work for unusual facial constructs. Also, about "the little flap in the tube", this is a safety valve to allow you to breathe in fresh air when the CPAP is not running or when you are disconnected from the CPAP. I suspect your safety valve flap has been damaged as I have been using the same mask for four years and the valve has always sealed perfectly. Rarely has anyone reported a problem with the valve in this forum.

I also disagree with the logic of your statement, "If it still does not work I might as well toss it !!" You have indicated that the lower part of the mouth cushion does not contact your face well because of the chinflap. So there is another option before "tossing": remove the chinflap. I use my Hybrid without the chinflap but for different reasons: it gives the mask a smaller footprint and less weight; and it eliminates the chance of irritating the sensitive skin under my chin.

Of course if you developed a strong bias against the mask just from one night's trial, it may be better to "just toss it" or claim a damaged valve and ask for a refund.

Suit yourself.

cortez,

I just looked at your PM, so let me add that Innomed makes no claim that the chinflap will hold the mouth closed. Some users may claim this but I did not find it to be the case.

Some users claim the chinflap makes the mask more stable and I do not question them on this point. Personally I find the mask very stable without the flap and prefer the smaller footprint and lighter weight. There is also a problem I have with a sensitive area of skin just under my chin. The flap irritated it so removing the flap avoided this problem.

I believe it is still correct that the Hybrid mask is the smallest footprint full face mask on the market (I am not including the ResMed Liberty which is an inferior, more expensive copy of the Hybrid.)

Maybe the single greatest advantage of the Hybrid over traditional full face masks is that nothing touches the sensitive bridge of the nose. If you read much in the forum you will see horror stories about FFMs and nose bridge destruction.

It took me a week of tossing to get the hybrid fitting right. There are many adjustments up down sideways until it fits right and not by just tightening all the straps down untill your face changes shape.

The mouth piece worked fine with mine after I took Roosters advice and removed that chin piece, no leaks but I couldn't get the nose pillows to stop leaking and everytime I moved they would pop out of my nose. I don't have that problem with the liberty mask. I still haven't given up on it, I'll have to play around with it a little more I guess. I really want this to work because replacement pillows etc are soooo much cheaper than the liberty. In fact, I got the mask, all the sizes of mouth cushions and nose pillows for less than it cost for just one mouth cushion for the liberty through my DME (Mr. Moneybanks).

sleepyb wrote:.... I couldn't get the nose pillows to stop leaking and everytime I moved they would pop out of my nose. ....

Apparently you don't use the ladies' tights fix which is a critical part of my success with the Hybrid.

sleepyb wrote:The mouth piece worked fine with mine after I took Roosters advice and removed that chin piece, no leaks but I couldn't get the nose pillows to stop leaking and everytime I moved they would pop out of my nose.

I had the same problem - rooster's lycra strap made the difference. Actually a piece of lingery elastic works too when the lycra one was stolen by the cat.

Rooster: I am glad that the mask worked for you. It was because of some of your positive comments that I purchased this mask. When I first tried it on I was very impressed. My wife. who does not have apnea, tried it on and the chin area fit perfectly. So I would have to say that it is a good mask but with the following caveat: If you have a protruding chin this mask is NOT for you.

Bob

cortez356 wrote:Rooster: I am glad that the mask worked for you. It was because of some of your positive comments that I purchased this mask. When I first tried it on I was very impressed. My wife. who does not have apnea, tried it on and the chin area fit perfectly. So I would have to say that it is a good mask but with the following caveat: If you have a protruding chin this mask is NOT for you.

Bob

But you haven't tried it the way some of us use it - with the chinflap removed.

Rooster: I am still debating on cutting the chin flap. I did try it with the flap turned up and it does fit better.But the flap would have to be removed for a good fit. First I am going to contact respcare re the leaky valve. BTW here is a quote from their brochure":Built-in chin flap gently supports the chin, eliminating the need for a chin strap" So they do claim that it keeps your mouth closed. The whole CPAP industry does not appear to be consumer driven. Probably because it is Insurance compmanies that are the first customers. Many of the masks and parts of the machines are made in Asian countries. Yet the prices remain very high. Looking at my Swift FX mask I can see where less than $10.00 would pay for all the parts. I could understand a price of say $75 retail for that mask!! Not only are the prices for CPAP masks artificially high the consumer has to modify the item with panty hose, rubber bands, straps and more. My S9 came with a disposable humidifier tray yet the unit sells for more than any other CPAP device! One day soon the Chinese will have their own units in the marketplace and some of these mfrs. will either have to change their philosophy or become dinosaurs. Pardon my rant
Bob

cortez356 wrote: BTW here is a quote from their brochure":Built-in chin flap gently supports the chin, eliminating the need for a chin strap" So they do claim that it keeps your mouth closed.

I stand corrected or updated. I started with the mask when it was first introduced about August 2006 and they did not have that claim in their literature or on their website. Another BTW, they could also say the mask eliminates the need for a chin strap because it is a FFM and maintains therapeutic pressure on an open mouth.

cortez356 wrote:.... The whole CPAP industry does not appear to be consumer driven. Probably because it is Insurance compmanies that are the first customers. Many of the masks and parts of the machines are made in Asian countries. Yet the prices remain very high. Looking at my Swift FX mask I can see where less than $10.00 would pay for all the parts. I could understand a price of say $75 retail for that mask!! Not only are the prices for CPAP masks artificially high the consumer has to modify the item with panty hose, rubber bands, straps and more. My S9 came with a disposable humidifier tray yet the unit sells for more than any other CPAP device! One day soon the Chinese will have their own units in the marketplace and some of these mfrs. will either have to change their philosophy or become dinosaurs. Pardon my rant
Bob

Nope, the insurance companies are not the cause of the CPAP industry failure to be customer focused. The cause of this problem is onerous government regulations on medical devices, medical service providers, DMEs, CPAP manufacturers and insurance companies.

Deregulate the mess and you will see prices for medical services, equipment, and insurance fall, while quality, customer service, and innovation will soar. (Think HD TVs!)