it seems a bit unfair (menopause/hormone insomnia)

It depends on whether they took out all the ovaries. If they did then you will get instant menopause, otherwise they continue to produce hormones until they give out.[/quote]
Backspinner I had endometrial cancer, they used a scoop shovel and took out EVERYTHING. Had it twice, the first time they left in the ovaries, a year later they had to do the scoop shovel job. So, if I had night sweats, mood swings and the rest of it at age 50...it had to be hormonal. We have other glands that produce hormones do we not?
Nan

nanwilson wrote: Backspinner I had endometrial cancer, they used a scoop shovel and took out EVERYTHING. Had it twice, the first time they left in the ovaries, a year later they had to do the scoop shovel job. So, if I had night sweats, mood swings and the rest of it at age 50...it had to be hormonal. We have other glands that produce hormones do we not?
Nan

Yes, thyroid and others can so similar things. But most of the menopause symptoms I had had to do with ovaries and estrogen production swings.

Whatever else you do, don't take Dong Quai - it's very dangerous and can cause a lot more trouble than menopause. Be very careful about any natural remedies.

stranger wrote:I just get this CPAP thing working out really well then perimenopause/hormone problems start and now I have bad insomnia. I'm 41 years old. Did anyone one else have this problem? What did you do? This has been going on a while, I tried a drug called klonopin which is no help. I also tried melatonin but that also made me feel drugged and I had a terrible nightmare and I'd only tried a very small amount of it. I also tried something called wild yam, but it had disturbing side effects so I stopped. I ordered some progesterone cream online but it hasn't got here yet. Not sure what else to do. I really don't want to be taking drugs. I hate the patronizing b.s. when bringing this up to doctors. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it is NOT behavioral!!!!! It's all hormonal. I'm also having hot flashes, sweating, dizziness, heart racing, panic attacks etc. Never had that before and never had a problem sleeping before!!

Hi stranger,

Welcome to the world of perimenopause. Here is some information that can help you make decisions as to how to treat/manage your symptoms. First of all let's define terms:

"Perimenopause" is defined as the x mount of years before reaching menopause. The definition of menopause is the complete cessation of menses for a period of 12 months. Post-menopause is defined as having had cessation of menses for 12 full months.

The average age of women who reach menopause is 51 years. Perimenopause often strikes women in their late 30's and into their 40's. Perimenopause ends with the start of menopause or after the cessation of menses for 12 months.

Perimenopause can mimic symptoms found in women who are going through menopause. Night sweats, hot flashes, anxiety, depression, lack of libido, and insomnia.

I encourage all women perimenopausal, menopausal, or post-menopausal who are symptomatic to visit the North American Menopause Society (http://www.NAMS.org). This organization is the "go-to" source for information about perimenopause, menopause, and post-menopause, management and treatment choices. NAMS just came out with their 2010 position paper on the use of hormone therapy. In summary, women with moderate to severe symptoms are advised to use the lowest dose of hormone therapy for the shortest period of time.

There are major types of hormone therapy - estrogen therapy (ET - for women without a uterus) and
Estrogen-Progetin therapy (EPT) for women with an intact uterus. These hormones come as pills, transdermal patches, intravaginal hormone releasing devices, and cremes.

Read the section on "bio-identical" hormones on NAMS. Interesting how many people are jumping on the "bio-identical" bandwagon in an attempt to persuade women that they are safer than prescribed medications. The truth is that there are no long-term studies with respect to efficacy and there is no evidence that bio-identicals are any safer than what is prescribed. My Mom is part of the ELITE study through USC University Hospital and is taking placebo vs. bio-identical hormones. The study is ongoing.

Some women find relief from perimenopausal/menopausal symptoms with exercise, diet, etc. Other women can be so disturbed by their symptoms that they talk to their doctor about hormone replacement therapy.

Perimenopause/Menopause are normal events in the life of a woman. Sometimes just finding support with women who have been there and done that can offer relief.

Before I even went to see my doctor, I did my reading through NAMS so I knew exactly where research stands at this point in time.

24 hours after beginning estrogen therapy (lowest dose transdermal patch - oral estrogen makes its first pass through the liver which I wanted to avoid). My very troubling and anxiety inducing symptoms vanished. I am merely putting off the inevitable. Once I stop estrogen therapy, I will go right back to having symptoms.

Best of luck to you! I know that this is a very troubling time. Hugs, Laurie

stranger wrote:I just get this CPAP thing working out really well then perimenopause/hormone problems start and now I have bad insomnia. I'm 41 years old. Did anyone one else have this problem? What did you do? This has been going on a while, I tried a drug called klonopin which is no help. I also tried melatonin but that also made me feel drugged and I had a terrible nightmare and I'd only tried a very small amount of it. I also tried something called wild yam, but it had disturbing side effects so I stopped. I ordered some progesterone cream online but it hasn't got here yet. Not sure what else to do. I really don't want to be taking drugs. I hate the patronizing b.s. when bringing this up to doctors. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it is NOT behavioral!!!!! It's all hormonal. I'm also having hot flashes, sweating, dizziness, heart racing, panic attacks etc. Never had that before and never had a problem sleeping before!!

I had to have a hysterectomy at 32. I refused HRT due to family health issues. I used an OTC all natural medicine called Remifemin (about $20 from Wal-Mart). I could handle the other issues of menipause but couldn't handle the insomnia. It works! I had NO side effects at all. I used it for about 6 months and weaned myself off slowly. If your doctor says its behavioral, find a new doctor!

Laurie1041 wrote: I encourage all women perimenopausal, menopausal, or post-menopausal who are symptomatic to visit the North American Menopause Society (http://www.NAMS.org).


Read the section on "bio-identical" hormones on NAMS. Interesting how many people are jumping on the "bio-identical" bandwagon in an attempt to persuade women that they are safer than prescribed medications. The truth is that there are no long-term studies with respect to efficacy and there is no evidence that bio-identicals are any safer than what is prescribed. My Mom is part of the ELITE study through USC University Hospital and is taking placebo vs. bio-identical hormones. The study is ongoing.

Before I even went to see my doctor, I did my reading through NAMS so I knew exactly where research stands at this point in time.

24 hours after beginning estrogen therapy (lowest dose transdermal patch - oral estrogen makes its first pass through the liver which I wanted to avoid). My very troubling and anxiety inducing symptoms vanished. I am merely putting off the inevitable. Once I stop estrogen therapy, I will go right back to having symptoms.
Hugs, Laurie

Great reference!

I couldn't handle the patch - it itched something fierce and if I was a couple of hours late changing it the migraine was unbelievable 24 hours later.

I weaned my self off with heavy bouts of exercise every morning for about 6 months. But it took a couple of years for my allergies to settle down again. It was like my whole body went out of balance, all my allergies flared out of control.

[quote]I couldn't handle the patch - it itched something fierce and if I was a couple of hours late changing it the migraine was unbelievable 24 hours later. [quote]

Some women do have reactions to the adhesive on the patch and either have problems with itching or they experience a rash around the site. I have had 2 migraines up to this point and never in my life have I experienced such intense pain, light sensitivity, along with nausea and vomiting. Fortunately, you were able to correlate the timing of changing out your patch and the onset of a migraine!

For women who are experiencing moderate to severe perimenopausal/menopausal symtoms who have undergone a partial hysterectomy (ovaries intact) there is a nifty estrogen only therapy called the FemRing. It is available in two dosages - 0.05 mg/day or 1.0 mg/day. It is a estradiol acetate vaginal flexible ring which is worn for 90 days. No patches to remember to change either once or twice a week, no skin irritation from the transdermal patch. I recently switched to the Femring because my generic estradiol patches kept falling off and I was going through a month's supply of patches in a little under 2 weeks. I was pretty skeptical at first when my doctor recommended the Femring, mostly due to the fact that it is used for 90 days. However, after having tried it, I give it "two-thumbs up".

Women with a uterus are also candidates for the Femring. This is also a great option for women who have problems with estrogen-progestin combination patches due to skin sensitivity. In this case, an oral progestin is taken to provide protection against cancer of the endometrium (lining of the uterus).

Estradiol is one of three naturally occurring estrogens in the body. Estradiol is produced synthetically by a patented chemical process usually from a plant steroid compound as a chemical precursor. Any perimenopausal/menopausal woman who has moderate to severe symptoms caused by the wildly fluctuating levels of estrogen seen in the perimenopausal period, low levels in the menopausal period, or near-absence of estrogen post-menopausally, should go to the North American Menopause Society (http://www.NAMS.org) to find out what the pros and cons of HT (hormone therapy) are before speaking with your doctor. You may find that after reading from the NAM's site that you are more up-to-date than your doctor. Good Health to all! (and Good Sleep!) Laurie

I started what I assumed was peri-menopause around 41, just after the birth of my second child (!). I suffered for YEARS with what I decided must be the longest menopause in history. My symptoms were nighttime hot flashes and insomnia. I was miserable but I have PCOS and other things going on, so I didn't want to deal with HRT. Ironically, since the onset of those symptoms, for the first time in my life I was having regular(ish) periods--not normal 28 day cycles, but I was having a period every 6 weeks or so--before that I could go months and months between periods.

Interestingly, the "perimenopause" symptoms stopped immediately when I finally was getting good treatment with CPAP. Hmmmm. . .

Then the symptoms returned, despite CPAP. I went to my doctor. "Well, perimenopause does that."

I asked the sleep clinic about it. My AHI's were great (all under 1.0),so they ruled out SA as a cause. They, too, chalked it up to perimenopause until I asked them to LOOK at my charts. The charts told an interesting story. Despite the good numbers for AHI's, my autopap pressure was sitting up on the high pressure ceiling almost all the time. So we increased my pressure by 2 cm.

I haven't had a "menopause" symptom since. Hmmmm.

I'm now 51 (and actually looking forward to cessation of menses), but no menopause symptoms in sight. And my periods continue to be mostly regular albeit with long cycles.

Janknitz wrote:I started what I assumed was peri-menopause around 41, just after the birth of my second child (!). I suffered for YEARS with what I decided must be the longest menopause in history. My symptoms were nighttime hot flashes and insomnia. I was miserable but I have PCOS and other things going on, so I didn't want to deal with HRT. Ironically, since the onset of those symptoms, for the first time in my life I was having regular(ish) periods--not normal 28 day cycles, but I was having a period every 6 weeks or so--before that I could go months and months between periods.

Interestingly, the "perimenopause" symptoms stopped immediately when I finally was getting good treatment with CPAP. Hmmmm. . .

Then the symptoms returned, despite CPAP. I went to my doctor. "Well, perimenopause does that."

I asked the sleep clinic about it. My AHI's were great (all under 1.0),so they ruled out SA as a cause. They, too, chalked it up to perimenopause until I asked them to LOOK at my charts. The charts told an interesting story. Despite the good numbers for AHI's, my autopap pressure was sitting up on the high pressure ceiling almost all the time. So we increased my pressure by 2 cm.

I haven't had a "menopause" symptom since. Hmmmm.

I'm now 51 (and actually looking forward to cessation of menses), but no menopause symptoms in sight. And my periods continue to be mostly regular albeit with long cycles.

Hi Jan,

I had a partial hysterectomy in 2002, the same year I was originally diagnosed with SA. I turned 50 last April and the last thing on my mind was the issue of menopause. I always assumed I would be menopausal or post-menopausal around 54. Imagine my surprise about 4 months ago when I literally jumped out of bed because I was burning up. The light bulb did not go off until each successive night I was waking up, anxious, heart racing, and worst of all I was soooo hot and then I would get sooo cold. Light bulb on! Me? Menopausal? At 50? I couldn't wait to see my doctor, I was miserable! My doctor said, "It appears you are in menopause" and started to snicker. I wanted to just kick her, but I like her too much. She told me she would order blood tests and I told her (after all, I am a frequent visitor to The North American Menopause Society), "a blood test is unreliable". She ignored the patient who was playing doctor and said, "Ah, that may be, but it will tell me if you are post-menopausal". I still didn't buy this blood test deal, but I did so anyway. 2 days later, her nurse calls me and says, Dr. So-and-So wants to see you on Monday. My thoughts were, "yeah so she can tell me I am perimenopausal". When I went back to see my doc, she announced, "Just what I suspected. You are post-menopausal. Let's talk about your options for symptom relief."
Humble pie happened to be on Monday's menu, as I helped myself to a large slice.

I have had to move from low dose hormone therapy to mid-range therapy to get my symptoms under control, mainly interrupted sleep. Besides a few glitches with either a mask problem, or a setting problem, I am amazed at how much better I am sleeping. Perhaps had I been treated a few months earlier, I could have eliminated the escalating doses of hormones. Makes me think.

I'm wondering now how I will know if I do go into menopause or not, since irregular periods with long cessations are not unusual for me, and the hot flsh/panic attack/insominia seems consistent with my SA??????????

And mad at myself for suffering all that time before. I started snoring around the time those symptoms started.

Because I'm with Kaiser, I haven't had the best gyn care. They are big on preventative (pap smears and mammograms) but don't really deal with other issues like PCOS very well, and I didn't want to deal with them trying to treat what may or may not be menopause because I don't fit neatly into one of their boxes. So I don't know if I am in menopause or not, and don't really care since it's part of life and will happen regardless. I'm just glad to have relief of those awful symptoms without resorting to HRT--whatever the cause. I hope it's not a breif pause.

Hysterectomy--the works;
Premarin for a few years; then
Gall bladder surgery (they say there's a link)
the stuff they don't tell you up front.
Joke's on me!

I had the same thing when I was about 43, and got depressed from not sleeping for more than a few hours. What helped enormously was acupuncture treatment. I still go every few months or so, a few weeks in a row to get a 'boost'. Try to find someone who specialises in fertility treatment. My acupuncture doctor happened to be a specialist in that area (which I did not know) and while he is mostly busy trying to help people who want to get pregnant, he got my hormones working too and I even got my periods back after 6 months of nothing. (Yeah, mixed blessing, I know). Anyway, it helped me better than HRT, antidepressants or sleeping tablets, and it does not have any side effects.

Had a total hyst. at 40. didn't sleep thriugh the nite for a yr and a half. Insomnia can be the worst. I finally had to take something to help me sleep but found meditation and relaxation tapes worked great for me. Not so for my hubby as he started talking in his sleep about the toads/peepers in the backward (had to change relaxation tapes! no more forest sounds) As your body adjusts the sleep will get better.

lbw wrote: I finally had to take something to help me sleep but found meditation and relaxation tapes worked great for me. Not so for my hubby as he started talking in his sleep about the toads/peepers in the backward (had to change relaxation tapes! no more forest sounds)

I am almost 10 years into menopause so don't know if things will change anymore or if this is all there is. The longer past menopause I get the worse my sleep gets. My apnea is actually mild and losing weight has improved it immensely. As my apnea and weight got better, my sleep got worse- go figure. The most uninterrupted sleep I get now is 3 hrs. Usually it's 2 hrs. So I get up around 3 times a night usually. I am going to try to get more exercise and see if that will help. I'll try anything as I really would like to stop the hormones, been taking now for over a year and if they really aren't helping why bother!