it seems a bit unfair (menopause/hormone insomnia)

I just get this CPAP thing working out really well then perimenopause/hormone problems start and now I have bad insomnia. I'm 41 years old. Did anyone one else have this problem? What did you do? This has been going on a while, I tried a drug called klonopin which is no help. I also tried melatonin but that also made me feel drugged and I had a terrible nightmare and I'd only tried a very small amount of it. I also tried something called wild yam, but it had disturbing side effects so I stopped. I ordered some progesterone cream online but it hasn't got here yet. Not sure what else to do. I really don't want to be taking drugs. I hate the patronizing b.s. when bringing this up to doctors. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it is NOT behavioral!!!!! It's all hormonal. I'm also having hot flashes, sweating, dizziness, heart racing, panic attacks etc. Never had that before and never had a problem sleeping before!!

The progesterone cream will definitely help - it's probably the best bet out there. Good luck!

I have the same problems and went on HRT. It helped at first but now I am waking every 2 to 3 hrs again. I'm at a loss as what else to do. I hate to think for the rest of my life I won't get a good nights sleep. Sorry to give bad news but maybe someone else can chime in with some help. If HRT doesn't help I don't know what else can. I am on the highest dosage Estrogen 1.0/0.5 Noreth so can't take anything more. Maybe we should go to an endocrinologist and see if any other hormones are out of whack.

I also tried something called wild yam, but it had disturbing side effects so I stopped. I ordered some progesterone cream online but it hasn't got here yet.

They are the same thing.

This is temporary until your body re balances (ok a couple of years). Some herbal remedies are Dang Quai, Soy, Gensing, wild yam cream, sleeping naked, lots of exercise......It all depends on YOUR body and its needs.

To tell the truth the sleep part was the least of my worries, I had 4 day migraines and anemia. HRT made it worse and added mood swings. I did the herbs I listed, had a complete hysterectomy, worked out with weights and ran an hour a day and learned relaxation/meditation techniques and acupressure.

To stranger (the OP),

41 is young for perimenopause symptoms. Not saying it can't be happening, just saying that it's kicking in pretty early relatively speaking. Hence, I think you really ought to bring up the fact that you're having some pretty serious perimenonpausal symptoms already. As for doctors giving you BS about behavioral stuff vs. hormonal stuff, you might find talking to a female GYN, nurse or PA will work better. And stress the fact that this is hormonal in your opinion. There are tests that can be run to determine if you really are entering perimenopause somewhere between 5 and 10 years earlier than normal. And you might ask what other medical conditions have symptoms similar to perimenopause and menopause and ask if you could be tested for them as well.

To slapmeawake,

You write, "I hate to think for the rest of my life I won't get a good nights sleep." Please remember the thing about menopause is that it doesn't last forever---no matter how rough your passage through menopause is, it will eventually sort itself out and get better. At that point, hopefully you will be able to get many years of good night's sleep.

You also write:

If HRT doesn't help I don't know what else can. I am on the highest dosage Estrogen 1.0/0.5 Noreth so can't take anything more. Maybe we should go to an endocrinologist and see if any other hormones are out of whack.

I think the idea of investigating whether there are other hormonal or other physical, but not necessarily hormonal, medical problems going on is a very good idea for both you and the OP.

stranger wrote:I just get this CPAP thing working out really well then perimenopause/hormone problems start and now I have bad insomnia. I'm 41 years old. Did anyone one else have this problem? What did you do? This has been going on a while, I tried a drug called klonopin which is no help. I also tried melatonin but that also made me feel drugged and I had a terrible nightmare and I'd only tried a very small amount of it. I also tried something called wild yam, but it had disturbing side effects so I stopped. I ordered some progesterone cream online but it hasn't got here yet. Not sure what else to do. I really don't want to be taking drugs. I hate the patronizing b.s. when bringing this up to doctors. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it is NOT behavioral!!!!! It's all hormonal. I'm also having hot flashes, sweating, dizziness, heart racing, panic attacks etc. Never had that before and never had a problem sleeping before!!

I will grant you that the cause may be 100% hormonal. BUT our behaviors can still affect our hormones (male or female) to some extent, so don't discount all the behavioral approaches to dealing with what your hormones do. It is all interrelated, after all.

I don't know how severe your apnea is or how long you've been on PAP therapy, but if your apnea was severe and you haven't experienced effective PAP therapy for very long, that circumstance alone could affect hormones in a way that causes a bumpy ride for a while for anyone. The body has to find a balance. That takes time.

Personally, I would not discount the melatonin (or anything else) based on a few bad nightmares. You got REM, and you may have needed it. That situation can make for, uh, vivid, dreams until that balances out. So rejecting somethig for that happening is, to me, like saying 'I don't want to take something natural to help me sleep because when I do it helps me sleep.' When you've been REM deprived and then you get some, you are gonna have some seriously wild dreams, in many cases. Melatonin mostly helps you get to sleep more than stay asleep, though, as I understand it.

My theory is that when your body has been making panic juice for years in order to have enough on hand to startle you awake to keep you alive, it takes the body a while to learn it doesn't have to do that anymore once you are on effective PAP therapy. Hair-trigger panic-attack-like symptoms and anxieties can result in the meantime. That, in turn, can trigger the perimenopausal stuff, if that's the time of life it all occurs. Finding ways to deal with those things may mean some emotional support and behavior modification as a strategy for dealing with it, even if, as you say, those things are not the root cause.

Hormone replacement to deal with sleep issues may not be considered by all a mainstream approach (yet), but hey, if it works for someone, it works.

Hope no one minds a male joining this discussion. I am married, so that should count for something, right?

I would love to have complete hyst but the thing is I don't have 15 grand lying around to do that! I'd been using my CPAP with great results for 2 years BEFORE all this craziness started. I went to bed at the same time every night and slept straight through with my CPAP and the card data was always good around 1 or 2 AHI with no leaks. I thought the progesterone cream would be actual progesterone since USP progesterone is listed as an ingredient, not wild yam? Are you saying it's still the same thing? I think to become USP progesterone it has to go through some sort of laboratory synthesis? I guess I don't really know I hope it doesn't have the same bad effects as the wild yam pills.

stranger wrote:I just get this CPAP thing working out really well then perimenopause/hormone problems start and now I have bad insomnia. I'm 41 years old. Did anyone one else have this problem? What did you do? This has been going on a while, I tried a drug called klonopin which is no help. I also tried melatonin but that also made me feel drugged and I had a terrible nightmare and I'd only tried a very small amount of it. I also tried something called wild yam, but it had disturbing side effects so I stopped. I ordered some progesterone cream online but it hasn't got here yet. Not sure what else to do. I really don't want to be taking drugs. I hate the patronizing b.s. when bringing this up to doctors. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it is NOT behavioral!!!!! It's all hormonal. I'm also having hot flashes, sweating, dizziness, heart racing, panic attacks etc. Never had that before and never had a problem sleeping before!!

You might try black cohosh. It's found in drugstores, etc., in the herbal/natural remedies section. It worked wonders for me, and my gynecologist's nurse (same age) used it also.

stranger wrote:I would love to have complete hyst but the thing is I don't have 15 grand lying around to do that!

That's actually a pretty severe thing to do to try to "cure" menopause. For pre-menopausal women, serious troubles with periods---i.e. excessive bleeding or excessive menstrual pain often caused by fibroid tumors for example---and certain cancers are the usual reasons for having a complete hysterectomy. Moreover, a complete hysterectomy wouldn't actually relieve as many of your symptoms as you might think since most menopausal symptoms are caused by the decrease in hormones secreted by the ovaries, which, if I recall correctly, are removed in a complete hysterectomy. And pre-menopausal women who undergo complete hysterectomies are typically put on hormone replacement theraphy (HRT) of some sort to keep them from going into early menopause.

I'd been using my CPAP with great results for 2 years BEFORE all this craziness started. I went to bed at the same time every night and slept straight through with my CPAP and the card data was always good around 1 or 2 AHI with no leaks.

Since the symptoms are new and severe, it's time to report them to your PCP or your GYN. And are your AHI numbers still remaining good even though you're not sleeping as well due to the menopausal symptoms? If so, then I think that's more evidence that the new symptoms are not directly related to your apnea or its treatment with CPAP.

I thought the progesterone cream would be actual progesterone since USP progesterone is listed as an ingredient, not wild yam? Are you saying it's still the same thing? I think to become USP progesterone it has to go through some sort of laboratory synthesis? I guess I don't really know I hope it doesn't have the same bad effects as the wild yam pills.

I really don't know anything about "natural" treatments such as wild yam pills vs. "synthetic" treatments such as progesterone cream per se. But if I recall correcty, the FDA stringently regulates any products that are sold as drugs and the FDA does not regulate productes sold as dietary supplements. Hence, if the synthetic progesterone cream is regarded as a drug by the FDA, it is likely to be purer from a chemical point of view and may have less variability as far as strength is concerned from one batch to another than the wild yam pills, which are clearly sold as dietary supplements.

I still think given your age and the severity of your symptoms you need to be working with your GYN on this because 41 is awfully young to be starting perimenopause or menopause itself.

Perimenopause can kick in any time after 35, but the early 40's is most common. I had full blown perimenopause at 42, but I didn't become menopausal (no periods) until I was 54.5 yrs old! Yes, 12 yrs of it!! In my early 40's I went on a low dose birth control pill to control it, but after a few years on that, I decided it was too risky. I went to natural methods of exercise, using good progesterone cream, and watching my diet by avoiding foods that would set off the flashes. If you are using progesterone cream, be sure it is one that provides a uniform dose of high grade progesterone. ProGest is considered the best brand to buy. I also used Remifemin a black cohosh forumla that really helps with flashes, mood swings, etc. I've recommended Remifemin to many younger friends and they've all had great improvement with it. The website for it has great information, and they used to provide a free sample. http://www.remifemin.com/ Hope this helps!! I really empathize with your.... the good news is, you will get to the other side of this!

P.S. Those who think you are too young for this are incorrect. Perimenopause signals a shift in hormones. It is not menopause (the cessation of periods). I personally know many women who started periomenopausal symptoms in their late 30's and early 40's. It can last anywhere from a few to a dozen years. I also know many women who went through full menopause in their early 40's...and while that is unusual, it can happen. GYN's can do a hormoane test, but the problem is that the FSH test is for the moment it is taken, and not the next hour or day when things can be quite different. Your hormones are fluctuating like crazy so it is hard to get a true picture. The best you can do is try to regulate the symptoms as best you can! Best of luck....

stranger wrote:I would love to have complete hyst but the thing is I don't have 15 grand lying around to do that! I'd been using my CPAP with great results for 2 years BEFORE all this craziness started. I went to bed at the same time every night and slept straight through with my CPAP and the card data was always good around 1 or 2 AHI with no leaks. I thought the progesterone cream would be actual progesterone since USP progesterone is listed as an ingredient, not wild yam? Are you saying it's still the same thing? I think to become USP progesterone it has to go through some sort of laboratory synthesis? I guess I don't really know I hope it doesn't have the same bad effects as the wild yam pills.

Hysterectomy won't help your problems.
Good wild yam cream is very processed to turn it into "bio-identical?" version of progesterone cream and is about the most effective thing there is which is why the pharma industry got it banned in Canada.

Evening Primrose Oil might help. You need to take the capsules continuously to allow them to build up in your system, just as any herbal supplement does, but I found this to be a great help both during menstruation (WOW, haven't used that word in relation to me for a few years LOL) and menopause. EPO seems to mellow out all the symptoms of both.

I started taking EPO for severely painful periods decades ago, then started it again when hot flashes, mood swings etc., began and it really seemed to help.

Cheers,
xena

robysue wrote:

I'd been using my CPAP with great results for 2 years BEFORE all this craziness started. I went to bed at the same time every night and slept straight through with my CPAP and the card data was always good around 1 or 2 AHI with no leaks.

Since the symptoms are new and severe, it's time to report them to your PCP or your GYN. And are your AHI numbers still remaining good even though you're not sleeping as well due to the menopausal symptoms? If so, then I think that's more evidence that the new symptoms are not directly related to your apnea or its treatment with CPAP.

I agree. My theory does not apply in this case.

Sorry ladies, do we all need some cheese to go with that whine????
I had a complete hysterectomy at age 29, no more periods, but still had the hormone menopausal thing at age 50. My conclusion is that one definitely does not relate to the other, menopause is all about hormones. We do all need some cheese....right "Somebody up there" gave all of us women a bum steer......and don't mean husbands
Cheers
N

nanwilson wrote:Sorry ladies, do we all need some cheese to go with that whine????
I had a complete hysterectomy at age 29, no more periods, but still had the hormone menopausal thing at age 50. My conclusion is that one definitely does not relate to the other, menopause is all about hormones. We do all need some cheese....right "Somebody up there" gave all of us women a bum steer......and don't mean husbands
Cheers
N

It depends on whether they took out all the ovaries. If they did then you will get instant menopause, otherwise they continue to produce hormones until they give out.