UPDATE Tried TENS Unit for My Limb Movements

SleepingUgly · Post by **SleepingUgly** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:28 pm

Is -SWS still following this thread? Maybe he can speak to this.

-SWS · Post by **-SWS** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:16 pm

gulfpearl wrote:Kathy my TENS unit has a warning that long time treatment & strong stimulation may cause muscle fatigue & may generate adverse effects. In order to avoid excessive treatment the unit will automatically turn off after 15 minutes. It also states that the treatments should be(1-2) 15 minute treatments / day. I don't know if all TENS units are the same, but it's worth checking out if yours has the same warning.

Muse-Inc wrote:News to me but both of the TENS I have now are more powerful than I one I used on my back both times before (it finally died). Makes sense tho since they are more powerful. I still used it on my shoulder 1-3 hrs at a session which gave me good relief -- less time didn't do it. No warning in the paperwork with either unit.

Kathy, I'd suggest calling the manufacturer of your TENS unit to ask if they also recommend time limits. In contrast to the 15-minute time warning on gulpearl's unit, my TENS manufacturer allows for treatment sessions up to 24-hours in duration as described in the PDF document I linked in this post: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56630&start=0#p531627

Bear in mind my TENS unit is capable of generating intensities stronger than I or my wife can comfortably tolerate. So my assumption is that if I used a 24-hour or even overnight treatment session, then I would have to dial the amplitude to a level that did not entail fatiguing muscle contractions. My unit can be dialed to automatically shut off after a user-set interval between 0 and 60 minutes, or to run indefinitely. But since a TENS unit can be legitimately configured to cause muscle contractions for certain treatments, I think this part makes sense relative to extended use:

gulfpearl wrote:strong stimulation may cause muscle fatigue

On the other hand, I think that if the TENS unit keeps Kathy's leg muscles from the severe PLMD contractions in the video---and if the TENS unit allows Kathy to sleep---then the TENS unit is probably the lesser of those two evils. I think I'd still call the manufacturer and even query doctors about any known long-term adverse effects associated with frequent extended TENS use. Thanks, gulfpearl, for sharing that information.

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:42 am

Mine is an Empi Select 1.5 TENS device. The manual has repeated warnings about using only as recommended by a clinician. It says not to use it while sleeping, the reason given being because the electrodes may come loose. I sure appreciate everyone's input with your personal experiences and knowledge and warnings. I am going to make an appointment with my sleep doctor, and ask if before the appointment she could prepare to instruct me on what's current in the sleep industry in regards to use of TENS and acupuncture. Seems more efficient than asking her at a visit then trying to have a phone discussion or going across town for another appointment. We'll see.

By the way, last night I slept 4 hours, got up for a potty break and gave myself a half hour to give my brain a chance to reset, then slept 4 more hours with a few wakeups due to externals (household sounds). Happy camper here. Yesterday late morning I went to a Habitat for Humanity house dedication to support a former coworker. (Didn't know it would be outdoors and standing!) I took a bit of extra effort with my appearance, knowing I'd be seeing people I hadn't seen for maybe a few years. I kept hearing how good I look, and compared to how I was when I left there 4 years ago, I'm sure I look like a different person. Even as recently as two weeks ago I wouldn't have even tried to make the event, or had the energy to make an extra effort, or even cared to try. Now I'm getting ready to try to go to church for a change. They'll probably give me a visitor's packet.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:54 am

Kathy, this is good news, indeed!

Excellent idea -- your plan to set an appointment with the doctor to discuss what's current in sleep medicine regarding use of TENS and acupuncture.

kteague wrote:I kept hearing how good I look, and compared to how I was when I left there 4 years ago, I'm sure I look like a different person. Even as recently as two weeks ago I wouldn't have even tried to make the event, or had the energy to make an extra effort, or even cared to try. Now I'm getting ready to try to go to church for a change. They'll probably give me a visitor's packet.

"visitor's packet"

M.D.Hosehead · Post by **M.D.Hosehead** » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:36 am

Just want you to know I'm following this thread and very happy about your progress.

DoriC · Post by **DoriC** » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:38 pm

K, I'm loving the sound of your last post and all the compliments you got! Anyone who saw your video has to be following this thread hoping for more updates like this last one. Give us more!

physicsbob · Post by **physicsbob** » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:15 pm

Kathy Keep at it I wore my TENS unit for 12 years straight, I even wore out three of them. I went from completely bed ridden, from a lower back injury, to today, where I am working full time plus a second part time job, with hardly any pain with out the TENS unit. It allowed me to get active again and get my muscles working with out the spasms. It is so great to hear that you are doing better.

brazospearl · Post by **brazospearl** » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:20 pm

Kathy,
So happy to see you're getting out and about living your life! Bask in the glow of the compliments you've gotten! You deserve the very best!

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:52 pm

Hours of total in-bed-with-mask sleep time the past week... 5, 5, 8, 5:45, 6:30, 5:30, 7:30, 5:30, 8. For several months it had been maybe 1-3 hours of misery a night, so although things aren't optimal yet, I haven't had a night I'd call miserable since the hissy-fit night when I was going to give up. What made me continue then was knowing how with cpap my rewards had been hard fought and slow coming, so I didn't want to quit prematurely - maybe just before the reward. I did recently leave a message for my sleep doc asking about guidance on the TENS use and acupuncture. Told them I wouldn't expect to hear from them till after the holiday. We'll see how that pans out.

Getting "buzzed" right now then ready to do it again. So nice to not dread bedtime.

SleepingUgly · Post by **SleepingUgly** » Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:24 pm

Yay! Now there's something to be thankful for!!

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:29 pm

And I am!

Julie · Post by **Julie** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:22 am

Hi - so glad everything's working for you! Almost 30 yrs ago our office (neurosurgeon's) handed out TENS units to people for pain control, and 15 mins was the limit then, mostly I think because it became ineffective after that time, apart from whatever damage it might or might not do to the patient (or itself).

KatieW · Post by **KatieW** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:46 am

Yay! I'm happy for you, Kathy.

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:49 am

Well, it appears I'm on my own with use of the TENS, but that's alright because I seem to be honing in on what's working for me. Guess this use of TENS to treat PLMD really is off the beaten path. Averaging over 7 hours a night the past couple weeks, and most of it seems to be really decent sleep. Been waking up for potty run every night, but my sugar has been up a bit. A few times was restless and had to get up for a little while and then try again, but then slept well. Seems like once I've slept for 5 hours, the rest of the sleep tends toward the legs moving a bit, but not miserably so.

I did read where someone with RLS said only when placing the electrodes in an "X" configuration on the lower back does he get relief. I have been placing the electrodes on the lower back in a 4-corners config with the electrodes from each lead stacked on the same side. Last night I placed the pads from each lead bilaterally. My next, and probably last experiment will be with that X placement - unless someone knows of a reason why I should not do that. I know little about the nerve pathways or the use of TENS, so I'm only aware of the placement warnings in the manual.

I am curious about what my limb movements look like now when I'm sleeping ok, or if they are not even present. My pain level has improved, so I'm thinking either the legs are quieter or the TENS is having some residual pain relief during the day. Just kinda doubt that since it isn't relieving my hip pain during the day or night. Haven't tried the camera again, just such a hassle, but my curiosity will probaly make me do an overnight taping. Unless something really changes, I'm going to let this thread fall off the map with claim that the TENS does help PLMD - well, for me, that is.

Janknitz · Post by **Janknitz** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:15 pm

KTeague,

The people with the most training and expertise in using TENS are physical therapists who often have additional certification in "physical agent modalities" (PAMs) like TENS. Since you do have hip pain, perhaps you can get a referral from your physician to a physical therapist who uses PAMS and get some professional input on the placement of electrodes and safety considerations.

BTW, congratulations! I'm so glad this seems to be helping. Your video just looks so tortuous and I think of you often hoping you are having better nights.

UPDATE Tried TENS Unit for My Limb Movements

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