Am I sleeping with the Devil?!

I want to apologize up front to the many of you who have already thought this through; however, it important that we as a community understand that ResMed is engaging in a price control strategy which is not in the best interest of us as patients (or as participants in the USA's healthcare system - of course Canadians have their own gripes with ResMed), and I'm sure there are many who haven't shopped a CPAP for a while and are not aware of ResMed's recent decisons.

When I bought my ResMed S9 from CPAP.com, it was with some reluctance. It cost SO much more than the other brands, but insurance was footing 100% of the bill and when I called a couple of doctors, they were familiar with ResMed, so that is what I got. Such was my Noob decision (I really wanted to get things started quickly). Now I realize which brand I use matters very little to the doctor.

In case some of you are not aware, ResMed has increased their prices and now have price control in place on the web:

Their least capable machine (the S8 Escape II) with humidifier costs $907. As a Noob, I initially thought my DME was giving me a pretty sweet deal when they offered this unit to me - after all it was $907 on the internet, so it must have good capabilities - NOT. Fortunately, I read enough here to reject this unit - Thanks all!

The S9 Autoset runs $1072 with humidifier.
These prices are controlled by ResMed and usually this type of control is enforced through a contract with the distributor which states, for example - Should CPAP.com discount the prices, ResMed will no longer supply their product line to CPAP.com.

Then, today this is posted by LoQ:
viewtopic/t55142/Resmed-Not-Allowed-on-cpapauction.html

One of the sellers at CPAPauction.com was selling brand new S9's with humidifier and Mirage Micro Mask for $495!
He stated that the units had been "bought, but decided not to use", but, the fact that he always had more to sell reveals that these are likely new units being sold by someone without the exorbitant markup prescribed by ResMed.

I'm reading between the lines here, but I doubt CPAPauction.com has very deep pockets and when they get a threatening letter from ResMed's lawyers, they pay attention. They probably cannot survive the cost of a lawsuit; even if they are legally in the right.
Thus, ResMed can make CPAPauction jump, even if they do not have a specific agreement or a legally tight case.

So, what is going on here?
This is all speculation, but the same strategy has played out in other markets.
The DME's are losing customers due to this forum and the advice given here about not letting your DME take charge of your equipment selection. When someone is first diagnosed with sleep apnea, they start learning about treatment and CPAP equipment options on the web. Without price control (the way it was 6 months ago) they would discover their DME was fleecing them and/or their insurance company. Seeing bottom line dollars is a much more compelling reason to ditch the DME than anything we can write on this forum.

The bottom line is your local DME benefits greatly from this because they get to make high profits while running up our healthcare costs. This would not be such a bitter pill to swallow if these DME companies really looked after our interests (and my apologies to the few that do).
ResMed benefits greatly, because if you are the DME company, you are most likely to prescribe ResMed, which will hold up to price scrutiny.
So, in the end, patients will be much more likely to get herded through the default DME mill process and miss the excellent benefits of better equipment and proactive involvement in their treatment which has been so beneficial to the many forum members here.

So ResMed is in bed with the DME's and I am in bed with ResMed and not happy about it!

Sorry about the rant, but this is exactly why health care costs are so out of control - vendor and supplier make a pact to artificially inflate pricing to support each other at the expense of quality of care to the patient.

Okay, I'm stepping down off the soap box (and a little worried that ResMed will download their "this patient must die" virus into my S9 ).

So what are your thoughts.
There is no denying that my S9 works well, but is ResMed really so far ahead of the competition that they can afford to charge twice what "market price" would be?
Are there so many people who will simply do what the DME suggests, that ResMed will eventually wipe Respironics, et. al. out of the market?
Are they the "800 pound gorilla"?

The bottom line is your local DME benefits greatly from this because they get to make high profits while running up our healthcare costs. This would not be such a bitter pill to swallow if these DME companies really looked after our interests

I find it interesting that my DME cares about me and my welfare, does a really good job, etc.... and they set me up with a respironics. So I ended up NOT sleeping with the devil. If they hadn't offered me the respironiocs, I would have insisted anyway, because i don't like the way resmed controls their software sales. Now these shennanigans...

resmed is an australian co and I am in australia, at one stage it was cheaper here to buy a resmed CPAP via the net from the US and pay freight etc to land it in australia, so resmed really do manipulate their prices

Ive just bought a new old stock S 7 lightweight for about US $440, which apprarently was its cost price so how much profit do they make? the factory warranty card hadnt been removed so I sent it in.....

I havent done well with a S6 lightweight, noisy motor bearings replaced under warranty, then a overvoltage problem made it shut down showing all lights, fixed but no warranty so I had to pay

fixed a similar problem later by dropping it on the floor while turned on, the shock fixed it and its been OK since, not recommended of course

Has any of the on-line retailers considered that ResMed's actions may be in violation of state and or federal anti-trust laws?

This may be the sort of action where the state Attorney Generals office would prosecute thus not burdening the on-line retailer with having to pay the legal costs.

BTW, don't flatter yourself (or the rest of us) by thinking for a moment that this forum, fantastic as it is, has any bearing on what DME's do or not, including Resmed. This is a drop in the bucket, and the majority of patients who are given Cpap's likely never get 'here', and if they do, while they may give a DME a hard time about things, it is highly unlikely to make even a minor dent in how they run their businesses or how Resmed behaves!

Kevin G. wrote:Has any of the on-line retailers considered that ResMed's actions may be in violation of state and or federal anti-trust laws?

This may be the sort of action where the state Attorney Generals office would prosecute thus not burdening the on-line retailer with having to pay the legal costs.

I don't know what the law is, but you only have to look at Apple products or Bose speakers to see the same type of price control. These two companies don't bother me as much because a) their mark-up is not so high, and b) they are not products which are critical to people's health.
In any case, I think it must be legal since these well established companies have been doing it for years.

snuginarug wrote:The bottom line is your local DME benefits greatly from this because they get to make high profits while running up our healthcare costs. This would not be such a bitter pill to swallow if these DME companies really looked after our interests

I find it interesting that my DME cares about me and my welfare, does a really good job, etc.... and they set me up with a respironics. So I ended up NOT sleeping with the devil. If they hadn't offered me the respironiocs, I would have insisted anyway, because i don't like the way resmed controls their software sales. Now these shennanigans...

Consider your self lucky! I am checking around for a local DME which is patient oriented, but the company I was "defaulted" to just had an Escape II CPAP and large Mirage Micro waiting for me - No fitting, no trying out alternate masks such as full-face or nasal pillows, not even trying different sizes.

My gut told me that ResMed was way overpriced, and even though it was the machine of choice by so many on this forum, I chose to research the hell out of what was available. I am sooooo happy with my new DeVilbiss IntelliPAP Auto w/Smartflex, it isn't funny. It does everything that ResMed S9 does for half the price.

I think we maybe need to face some facts, like whether or not the products are health related, the companies are in BUSINESS! Their goal is to make a ton of money ASAP and short of ignoring 'green' laws in their countries, or politically correct hiring, they are looking at money, not touchy feely things like health care. It's all about the money!

Julie wrote:I think we maybe need to face some facts, like whether or not the products are health related, the companies are in BUSINESS! Their goal is to make a ton of money ASAP and short of ignoring 'green' laws in their countries, or politically correct hiring, they are looking at money, not touchy feely things like health care. It's all about the money!

Does this have to be the rule?

Some companies price their products at the "total cost to produce" plus (for example) a 20% profit margin.
In this case, I'm not sure ResMed gets any more money (though they may get increased sales). I think it is the DME's who are walking away with the fat wallets! Of course, if DME's give preference to ResMed products, then ResMed is likely to start raising their prices once they feel they have a "Captive market".

I know I'm idealistic, but can't a modern company have a successful model where their objective is to provide a beneficial service while making a fair profit? Or does it have to be maximize profit?

It bothers me that we are so quick to accept that this is "proper" business!

Rogue Uvula wrote: Does this have to be the rule?

It isn't a "rule". It seems to be the way they WANT to do business. And that is--correctly--their choice. Others may choose a different business model.

Consumers have the choice whether or not to do business with them.

Emilia wrote:My gut told me that ResMed was way overpriced, and even though it was the machine of choice by so many on this forum, I chose to research the hell out of what was available. I am sooooo happy with my new DeVilbiss IntelliPAP Auto w/Smartflex, it isn't funny. It does everything that ResMed S9 does for half the price.

I'm glad the DeVilbiss works for you -- but if you reseach the machines' algorithms you'll see the definitely do not do the same things.

If you say so, but I'll leave that up to the DeVilbiss folks to debate with you. I know nothing about algorithms, but I do know that they have upgraded the machine as of this month along with their software so it may measure up now.

ozij wrote:

Emilia wrote:My gut told me that ResMed was way overpriced, and even though it was the machine of choice by so many on this forum, I chose to research the hell out of what was available. I am sooooo happy with my new DeVilbiss IntelliPAP Auto w/Smartflex, it isn't funny. It does everything that ResMed S9 does for half the price.

I'm glad the DeVilbiss works for you -- but if you reseach the machines' algorithms you'll see the definitely do not do the same things.

And that's worth double the price?

Given ResMed's predatory pricing practices, I'm really quite surprised so many here are advocates for them.

Of course, if "insurance" is picking up the tab...who cares.

[quote="ozijI'm glad the DeVilbiss works for you -- but if you reseach the machines' algorithms you'll see the definitely do not do the same things.[/quote]

Theoretically, all AutoPAP devices do the same thing. However, how each algorithm identifies and addresses events does indeed differ. Just like CPAP, Auto algorithms are a personal choice and one individual may prefer one algorithm over another for various reasons. There is not a one-size-fits all solution and as such, it is wonderful that there are forums like this where folks can research their options and make an educated decision about their therapy.