My sleep issue is making my life miserable.

Swim_Bike_Run wrote:I have been to THREE sleep clinics, the last that ordered a new round of sleep studies - only to tell me that, even with my weight loss I still have pretty moderate OSA.

Hi,

It is a myth that weight causes OSA. It can make it slightly worse, but it isn't the root cause. Even skinny people have OSA. The key factor that OSA is correlated with is age. The older you get, the worse it typically gets.

-john-

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Swim_Bike_Run, have you tried sustained release melatonin? That's what my sleep doc recommended for me, although I have yet to try it. It's kind of a split thing where part of the melatonin releases immediately and part releases later in the night to help keep you asleep. I do need to try it though, because I wake up exhausted each morning as well, even with great numbers. (I'm sure if you're on any medication you've checked those for any possible sleep problem side effects.)

John, it's not a myth that weight causes OSA; the myth is when folks say weight is the ONLY cause. In some people weight is the cause, but in many people there are anatomical reasons only or a combination of weight and anatomical reasons. (Two personal examples are my sleep tech was very thin and had severe OSA; but I have a friend who lost 60 pounds and had a sleep study after the weight loss showing he no longer has OSA.)

Pam

SBR,

I had to get rid of all caffeine - even small amounts of chocolate. Being very strict about this helped a lot.

Review your sleep hygiene - http://www.umm.edu/sleep/sleep_hyg.htm.

I also have concerns that you are overtraining. I have built myself up to be able to do some extreme sessions, however I do not sleep as well those nights. You are probably like me and concentrate on the second half of "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." But the first half is very real, especially as the decades roll on

What about moving to a private bed? That was a bummer for me, but in the long run it has really helped.

You haven't mentioned sleeping positions. If you sleep any on your back, then restricting your sleep to sides or tummy might cause an immediate significant improvement. Were you evaluated for positional sleep apnea (PSA) in any of your studies?

I have some suggestions.

1. Unless you know for a fact that you can't sleep with less than 6 mg of melatonin, you need to try taking a smaller dose. Studies have shown that more is not necessarily better. And as someone suggested, it might not be clearing from your system in order for you to be fully awake the next day. If you must take 6, maybe you could take 3 mg three hours before bed and then 3 mg more an hour and a half before bed.

2. Humor me here. Try taping your mouth shut. If you are using a nasal mask, you'll have to tape it shut. If you are using the FFM, either tape it shut or tape it like a chin-up strip. I use a FFM, and I still use tape to keep my jaw up. I put a strip of tape from the center of my lower jaw just under my chin up over the corner of my mouth and stretch the tape so that the other end is maybe half an inch from my nose and an inch below my eye. Then I do another piece of tape just like that on the other side. Then I take a third piece of tape an put it just under my lower lip so that it connects the other two pieces of tape. Looks like an inverted "A". Then I put on my FFM. Works much better and is more comfortable than a chin strap for me, and you don't have to totally tape your mouth shut which is pretty uncomfortable sometimes.

3. Set your machine to CPAP mode and set the pressure at 10. Try that a few days, and if it doesn't work, inch it up some. Please try the tape when you do this as you may need both (or additional) things to feel better.

I had a post written out for you but the server mangled it. Check out this CD:
http://www.hypnosishealthcare.com/rainsounds.html

It might help you relax and get into a deeper sleep. I would put it on continuous replay. If rain is not relaxing, you might look for another CD with something that you find relaxing.


The rest of my post was about attacking your problem on many fronts, PAP machine being just one. Make sure you are not getting too hot, too cold, waking because you need to go to the bathroom, heartburn, bed's too hard, bed's too soft, etc.


Clearly the problem is that you are not getting enough deep sleep. The question is why. Once you know why you aren't, you can attack the actual problem. Until then, you need a multi-faceted approach to the problem.

LoQ wrote:The rest of my post was about attacking your problem on many fronts, PAP machine being just one. Make sure you are not getting too hot, too cold, waking because you need to go to the bathroom, heartburn, bed's too hard, bed's too soft, etc.

Clearly the problem is that you are not getting enough deep sleep. The question is why. Once you know why you aren't, you can attack the actual problem. Until then, you need a multi-faceted approach to the problem.

And in looking for why, be sure to include Rooster's worry about overtraining. Extreme excercise may be the most relevant factor in your case. Not claiming it is, but it deserves some experimentation. If it turns out to be key, you'ld have a choice to make.

No good suggestions, just stating that those nightime wakeups plague quite a few of us here (it's an onging topic of discussion at our Atlanta Area meetup). Mine tend to the 120 mins variety.

The only time I was able to increase my time asleep between wakeups was a night at Dragon*Cno (scifi convention) where street sounds/people noise woke me up like every 30-40 mins...something shifted in my brain and I started having fewer wakeups...why? who knows. The last 2 nights taking pain meds, I slept 8 hrs without a wakep the first night & 1 wakeup last night (early morning pain); will see what happens tonight.

Could you have muscle fatigue/microtears. ie, pain?

Several recent studies have found that men sleep much more restfully in a bed all alone...not so for women.

Sure sounds like your brain is still hyper-alert, a la pre-CPAP therapy, and not letting you relax into restful sleep...seems like there should be reason but then I'm prone to there's gotta be a pony in here somewhere approach to challenges if ya remember that old joke

For some people, cpap does not work. I had sleep apnea and was on cpap for over a year at every pressure even the max of 20 cm. It did benefit me some but I was still suffered from debilitating symptons. I was treated by the Stanford Sleep Disorders Clinic and Dr. Kasey Li in Palo Alto, CA. These are the premier experts on sleep apnea. I finally had the mma (maxillo mandibular advancement) surgery this past Jan. with EXCELLENT results. It was truly life saving procedure. I highly suggest going to the Stanford Sleep Disorders Clinic to see the experts.

Did the new sleep doc have any suggestion about helping you get more stage 3-4 sleep?
Did you try them?