edit: here are my latest screen shots, leaks r better!

Hi! I had totally missed this RAD thing until I read this a few minutes ago on some other thread you just posted in. The whole time I was writing about the 10 cm I was thinking to myself "unless you have lung issues"... well perhaps you do have something that really physically is preventing you from utilizing straight cpap properly. This is something you should take up with your doc. BTW was this diagnosis recent, after starting cpap?

Hi echo!
the diagnosis was made by my pulmonogist/sleep doctor before cpap.

I really dont wont to feel like Im being a sissy about this pressure, but I do

elena88 wrote:
I thought the bipaps were for only people who needed high pressures?

You are right. In most cases Bipap are prescribed for higher pressure or for people that need more than 3 digits between inhale (ipap) and exhale (epap). However, bipaps can also be a good fit for people with complicated breathing issues like it sounds you may have. This was the case with me. Based on conventional wisdom, a Dr would not prescribed me a bipap. My machine spends 90% of the time at 11.4 inhale and 11.0 exhale. Not high pressure at all, but the breathing is smoother and calmer because it's sychronized with my breathing pattern. I do believe that once my breathing gets stronger I could probably go back to my old CPAP and do much better on it. Maybe it is a matter of building back those lungs. I will test this at some point after I get a few months of better sleep with the VPAP.

Perhaps you can try to post if there is someone in your area that is willing to loan you a bipap for a few days. Possibly someone has a backup machine or machine in the closet etc. I met a person on this forum that let me try a bipap in the Atlanta area. He wanted to try an auto CPAP so we swapped for a couple weeks. He actually did very well on my CPAP!! Another option could be a loaner from your sleep Dr? I did try this with my sleep Dr but no luck.

Thomas F. wrote:

elena88 wrote:
I thought the bipaps were for only people who needed high pressures?

You are right. In most cases Bipap are prescribed for higher pressure or for people that need more than 3 digits between inhale (ipap) and exhale (epap). However, bipaps can also be a good fit for people with complicated breathing issues like it sounds you may have. This was the case with me. Based on conventional wisdom, a Dr would not prescribed me a bipap. My machine spends 90% of the time at 11.4 inhale and 11.0 exhale. Not high pressure at all, but the breathing is smoother and calmer because it's sychronized with my breathing pattern. I do believe that once my breathing gets stronger I could probably go back to my old CPAP and do much better on it. Maybe it is a matter of building back those lungs. I will test this at some point after I get a few months of better sleep with the VPAP.

Perhaps you can try to post if there is someone in your area that is willing to loan you a bipap for a few days. Possibly someone has a backup machine or machine in the closet etc. I met a person on this forum that let me try a bipap in the Atlanta area. He wanted to try an auto CPAP so we swapped for a couple weeks. He actually did very well on my CPAP!! Another option could be a loaner from your sleep Dr? I did try this with my sleep Dr but no luck.

Hi Thomas,
thank you for sharing your story too! I am normally not a good communicator with doctors, but Im going to tell my sleep doctor that this has become
more than an adjustment struggle, I cant function anymore. I will see what she says, perhaps if she suggests a bipap, I can rent one for a couple weeks.
They let you rent the apaps for a month before you decide to buy them. Let me know how it goes with your new equipment..

****************************************************************************************************************************************************

Well here are my last nights graphs, and I think this will be my last one for awhile.. however, I did an experiment!
and I used tape the first part of the
night, and took it off the second part of the night.. and guess what BIG FRIGGEN LEAKS! aha moment! I must be leaking from my mouth!
(at this time I was sleeping on my back too)
Now this tape had the little slit in it so I could cough thru it, without it breaking off, but look at the flat leak line, OMG. I never thought I would
see THAT! ha, dreamon, it looks like yours! Well, not all night, but good grief, its flat there for a bit! yahoo! I still feel like total crap today, because
I didnt sleep enough hours.. I never usually look to see how long I slept but this time I did, and
its about 1:30 to 3am 330 to 530am and a few minutes before and after six am.. so total a little over 3 1/2 hours..
(OH THERE ARE TWO CENTRALS Of TEN SECONDS WITH A FLAT LEAK LINE... so those were not caused by leaks, and I was sleeping,
so I now know they do happen with no leaks, and not always when Im awake. )
Im wearing the tape all night tonight, and if it comes off, I will retape. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP!!!
(P.S. I noticed my headgear has not fit right since I took it apart to wash my strap softies, and I spent a LONG time last night
refitting it, and I think that helped a lot.. it fit right and the pillows werent pushing to hard or upward on my nose anymore.
I plan to get a white sharpie and mark the lines where the velcro is fastened now!)

A = maybe an adjusting mask spike leak line, or a "rolling over face smoosh"

B, C, D, awake times

Congratulations on discovering why you were having such a massive problem with leaks! I just knew that you weren't losing that much therapy air from your nasal pillows! AHI and Central AI are very good!

Compare last night's Pressure graph to the Leak graph. See how much lower your pressure stayed overall when your leak line was flat? And how much more stable the pressure was, compared to the latter half of the night, when your leak rate was higher? That's what you want to see. The machine tries to compensate by raising the pressure when you have leaks. And your leak rates were so high at times that the machine couldn't even compensate for the loss of therapy air.

Continue with your quest for a low Leak Rate. Since mouth-breathing/leaking seems to be a big problem for you, you may need to use a full face mask if taping + a good chin strap aren't enough.

For now, I suggest that you keep the pressure as it is. Right now, I think the most important thing is that you get more hours of sleep. I think that's going to begin to happen for you now, especially if your leak rate remains within acceptable levels. Once you're sleeping better, further pressure adjustments can be made, if indicated by your results data and the way you feel.

After a week or two, when you are confident that the leak problem is solved and you are feeling like breathing is easier, it'd be worthwhile to try CPAP at 10 again and see if your results are even better. If not, you can always go back to APAP, or try gradually increasing CPAP pressure from 10. But don't keep switching things around frequently. Give your body and mind time (a week would be good) to adjust to each change before deciding that something didn't work. Sleep quality and data results vary from night to night anyway -- for all of us.

I think you're going to do fine, Elena. It just takes time to figure out what's going on and then work out all the bugs. Having all this information will really help when you discuss these discoveries with your doctor!

HI Dreamon,
I cant believe I got a flat leak line! OMG!


Im going to keep everything the same, I could not get the ramp to work, so I shut it off, and I put it at seven with epr at three,
and I kept practicing with it..

You are right, leave it all the same for awhile and see what happens.. and someday try the cpap at ten, but with my long weak exhales,
that is going to be a REAL challange.. however, onward and upward!

I would never have figured it out without this software, and your help, and everyone else on this thread!
I cant thank you enough! I hope all this information will help some other newbies with their cpap leak adventures too..
I plan to sleep like a puppy tonite, here is one of my boys when he was little fella.. and with a flat leak line, maybe I will be
zzzzzzzzzzzzz like him soon!

That's a really sweet photo of your dog!

I hope the appointment with your pulmonologist/sleep doctor goes well. Keep working on the leaks and getting more hours of sleep. I think that things will fall into place for you.

DreamOn wrote:That's a really sweet photo of your dog!

I hope the appointment with your pulmonologist/sleep doctor goes well. Keep working on the leaks and getting more hours of sleep. I think that things will fall into place for you.

He is my baby, I have three of them, two are rescues, and they all get along like little clams.. My license plate holder reads "dobiemobile" and its pretty
funny when all three of them have their heads stuck out the window

I know I will have a good appt with my doctor, she is expecting me to bring in all the data and print it for her, so when I bring in all the stuff YOU
did, she is going to really be impressed! Thank you!

My appt is not till second week of august, so I have time to practice getting my leak line to the big zero!
If I try everything, even the cpap later, and Im still struggling, I will ask about bipap, because I refuse to quit!

Elena, I'm so glad to see you heading in the right direction now! Whew!! I've learned so much from you and DreamOn's charts that I could have almost predicted that mouth leaks were the major problem. It's also becoming clearer that you'll probably need a pressure of 10 eventually. If you decided to stay with auto a good range would probably be 8-12(the good old 2+/2- setting). I have one question though, if you're keeping your EPR at 3 with a min of 7, wouldn't that be lowering your exhale pressure to 4cms which might feel suffocating? I think when you get more sleep you'll feel better too. Please keep us updated, your graphs are a good learning tool(as long as DreamOn doesn't mind! ). BTW, your puppy is adorable!

elena88 wrote: My appt is not till second week of august, so I have time to practice getting my leak line to the big zero!
If I try everything, even the cpap later, and Im still struggling, I will ask about bipap, because I refuse to quit!

YAY!!!

DoriC wrote:Elena, I'm so glad to see you heading in the right direction now! Whew!! I've learned so much from you and DreamOn's charts that I could have almost predicted that mouth leaks were the major problem. It's also becoming clearer that you'll probably need a pressure of 10 eventually. If you decided to stay with auto a good range would probably be 8-12(the good old 2+/2- setting). I have one question though, if you're keeping your EPR at 3 with a min of 7, wouldn't that be lowering your exhale pressure to 4cms which might feel suffocating? I think when you get more sleep you'll feel better too. Please keep us updated, your graphs are a good learning tool(as long as DreamOn doesn't mind! ). BTW, your puppy is adorable!

Hi DoriC!
I know, I think everyone learned so much from dreamon's charts. Yes, it looks like the number ten is in my future! I think I will try 8 to 12 on the auto next week, thanks. " I have one question though, if you're keeping your EPR at 3 with a min of 7, wouldn't that be lowering your exhale pressure to 4cms which might feel suffocating?" I guess it would feel suffocating to some people, I do read about that suffocating feeling, but, no, I have NEVER felt suffocated at a low pressure, my favorite pressure is still FOUR, but I took the training wheels off and went to five. Now Im at seven for a couple days, but I wake up and feel so unsettled... even with the flat leak line. I forgot to put the sd card in my machine last night I was so tired! I just need to string together a good seven hours.. OH, and I think my puppy is adorable too! I have a tip for all big dog owners.. the first thing you should teach your puppy is.. the term.. "excuse me" and they will learn to step aside and give you space, works great!

echo wrote:

elena88 wrote: My appt is not till second week of august, so I have time to practice getting my leak line to the big zero!
If I try everything, even the cpap later, and Im still struggling, I will ask about bipap, because I refuse to quit!

YAY!!!

Thanks echo! Im too competative to quit! I want to WIN WIN WIN! Of course this is the place to do it, with all this great support! THANK YOU!