Hello Old Friends - I Need Help

Hi everyone. For those of you who don't know me, I was a very regular poster here for a while. Now I'm back, and asking for help.

Here's the gist: My sleep issues are very close to costing me my job.

My CPAP treatment seems to be going perfectly well, to me. I'll post some screenshots of my latest data for your review tomorrow morning (going to try to sleep now) in case you think there's something going on that I'm missing (completely possible!). But 24 years of untreated apnea has resulted in one obvious major issue for me: awful sleep hygiene. I've been on the hose for 5 years now (hard to believe!) and since day 1 I've religiously used my machine. But still I have issues with going to bed at a reasonable hour. Something just keeps me from going to sleep until my body is totally physically exhausted. I know you say "just go to bed!" but for whatever reason, it's just not that easy. Even if I go to bed, if I'm not exhausted, I can't sleep. It doesn't matter what I do... toss and turn in bed, stay on the computer, watch TV, or read... whatever I do, I stay up until all hours of the night, until I've been awake for at least 18 hours (unless I only got a few hours of sleep the previous night...then I can sometimes go to bed earlier). I generally sleep between 10 and 12 hours on Friday and Saturday nights when I don't have to work in the morning. And this isn't me intentionally oversleeping - I don't even wake up enough to have to go to the bathroom until it's been at least 10 hours. My boss was flexible with my schedule for the last couple of years, but he's lost his patience with me coming in 30 minutes late (even though it's documented through my doctor for FMLA purposes that my sleep disorder can result in me coming in late regularly! but I digress) and has decided to no longer allow me to flex my schedule at all. He's also using "I don't want to let you go, but I don't know what to do about this" language that scares the crap out of me. I have never in my life ever had good sleep hygiene - even as a kid - because of the apnea issues. I'm wondering if my adult body just doesn't know how real sleep happens anymore.

So I guess I have two questions: Anyone have any idea what the heck my problem is, besides being a high-maintenance pain in the butt? :p and Does anyone know if there may be any federal (or Virginia state) resources/laws/agencies that can help protect my job somehow as a result of something I really feel must be a medical issue somehow...? Any advice appreciated!

Edit: I forgot to clarify that not going to bed until way late = not getting 8+ hours of sleep per night = me being too tired and hitting snooze/turning off my alarm without even being conscious of it and ending up being late. That was probably obvious, but just in case...

have you asked formally for accommodation under ADA? (there are certain size operations that don't have to - but you can look up those regulations)

in asking for accommodation under ADA the employer gets to decide what is and isn't reasonable based on the recommendation of your doctor

if now your boss is indicating what was reasonable before isn't reasonable now, you might want to check with an EEO office

Hi CollegeGirl

I know exactly what you are talking about.

I have discovered that at about the time I should be going to bed, if I am on the computer or watching a video/tv, then I change my "mental/emotional" state, and just zone off into the never-never land of internet browsing or watching the images on tv.

This is some kind of serious mind-shift, which involves inertia (not being able to stop what I am doing), but it also involves a childish anger (which come out as "**** it". I don't care).

Now I am only just figuring this out, and what I have come up with, and just started using, is that at the time I should go to bed, I absolutely must not be watching tv or be on the computer. Then I can keep in my rational (sensible) mind-frame, and get my sleeping arrangements ready, go to bed, read for a short while, usually I am ready tired enough to go to sleep.

For getting up, I have my alarm clock at the other end of the room, which wakes me and the cats up, so by the time I have got up, turned it off, fed and let the cats out, my mind is clear enough to keep me going on with the rest of the day. There are now light machines which tell the brain it is morning. and helps you wake up.

http://www.gizmag.com/go/6269/

So if you can do something similar, to suit your circumstances, it might work. So I suggest you make sure that when it is time to get ready for bed you are not engaged in any activity where you are likely to space out.

Hope this helps.

cheers

Mars

Oh I am so sorry you are struggling with this. Sleep Routine is not the easiest thing to make yourself do. My DH has to make himself stop all "screen time" at 9 PM. That means he misses TV shows he would like to see, and computer time that he wants to have. I envy his self control, I wish it would be shared with me.

It is not easy, I have seen him do this to help with his insomnia. We have proven to ourselves, when done EVERY night, it DOES work.
Sorry for your struggle, I do hope you can get a handle on this.
The National Sleep Foundation has great info for developing a great sleep schedule to help. I wish you the best and I do hope you can get a handle on this before it is too late.

Karen

CG, glad to see you & sorry you're having troubles.
I had a hard time falling asleep, too, at first. What Karen says was also true for me.
I started doing my bedtime routine around 7 so I could calm back down after washing my face & brushing my teeth. Then it was NO TV or computer, just reading, and nothing in my bedroom. Bedroom had to be reserved for sleeping and that other thing
If I didn't fall asleep within 20 - 30 minutes, then I got out of bed and got a cup of milk or some small snack (bananas are good), read for awhile then back to bed. No caffeine, nothing that would jumpstart my brain into thinking it was time to think or worry or stew about something. Keep the lights low. Turn the clock to the wall so you can't see it.
After a few months I was able to begin deviating from my routine. I now don't have ANY trouble falling asleep as soon as my hosed head hits the pillow.
You can do it, but it does take discipline.
Keep us posted.
LKTNKY

You need to reset your biological clock. Weekends are the best time to reset your clock. Do whatever it takes to get out of bed as early as possible and then exhaust yourself with exercise during the day.

Are you getting any exercise? Consider walking, swimming, or biking 30 minutes to an hour in the afternoon after getting off work.

It takes about 3 or 4 days for you to gradually reset your clock. That is why absolutely hate having to change back and forth with that idiotic daylight savings crap. Should be eliminated and if the people can ever take their government back from business interests.

DreamStalker wrote:You need to reset your biological clock. Weekends are the best time to reset your clock. Do whatever it takes to get out of bed as early as possible and then exhaust yourself with exercise during the day.

Are you getting any exercise? Consider walking, swimming, or biking 30 minutes to an hour in the afternoon after getting off work.

It takes about 3 or 4 days for you to gradually reset your clock. That is why absolutely hate having to change back and forth with that idiotic daylight savings crap. Should be eliminated and if the people can ever take their government back from business interests.

I agree 100%, DreamStalker. And thank you for mentioning daylight savings time..idiotic is the right word.

CollegeGirl, I had the same issues you have before I started CPAP, so I don't know if this will help or even sound relevant to you, but I thought I would share on the off chance it might help. When I was in the same spot as you, I was always aware that there was a time EARLY in the evening when I was tired, did feel like going to sleep, but I didn't want to because it was too early (in my opinion of course) to go to bed. Do you ever feel tired early in the evening? If so, try going to bed then, don't wait thinking you "should" stay up later because there is something on TV or something you want to check on the computer. Just go and see what happens. Doing that turned it around for me but it took some time.
As I said,that was pre-CPAP for me, but it helped then and helps now, I just don't feel tired that early anymore unless I have physically worn myself out.

Sorry if this is of no help at all, just my two cents worth. I wish you the best with this. I used to be the person who slept through 2-3 alarms at full blast and was late for work or scrambling to get there on time. It's not easy, but you can turn it around.

Jeanette

Hi Ginny.

Sorry to hear about your situation. I can sort of relate. I was always a night owl......could and did work shift work and if I stayed up past about 10 PM, I would get my "second wind" and could stay up much longer. About the time I started this therapy, I started going to bed before that so I could get up before 5 AM and that seemed to work better.
One of the biggest obstacles is being able to clear one's mind from all the stressful things we think about, before bedtime. I'm not sure if I have any suggestions for that one......different things work (?) for different people. Stress is a tough one to overcome.

If you do exercise, I believe I've read where it needs to be several hours before bedtime.
Examine what foods and beverages you consume during the evening, too. Those can make a difference.

Good luck.

Den

CollegeGirl wrote:Hi everyone. For those of you who don't know me, I was a very regular poster here for a while. Now I'm back, and asking for help.

Here's the gist: My sleep issues are very close to costing me my job.

I'm very sorry to hear that, CG.

So I guess I have two questions: Anyone have any idea what the heck my problem is, besides being a high-maintenance pain in the butt? :p and Does anyone know if there may be any federal (or Virginia state) resources/laws/agencies that can help protect my job somehow as a result of something I really feel must be a medical issue somehow...? Any advice appreciated!

There you have it in a nutshell: You consider your inconsistent sleep habits a medical issue. I honestly don't.
It takes persistence and hard work to change sleep habits and get better "sleep hygiene". Dr. Barry Krakow's book "Sound Sleep Sound Mind" is an excellent guide to better sleep -- even for people with OSA.

O.

You guys have made me tear up this morning with your kind compassion. Thank you.

jules wrote:have you asked formally for accommodation under ADA? (there are certain size operations that don't have to - but you can look up those regulations)

in asking for accommodation under ADA the employer gets to decide what is and isn't reasonable based on the recommendation of your doctor

if now your boss is indicating what was reasonable before isn't reasonable now, you might want to check with an EEO office

No I haven't asked for accommodation under ADA - but I know my employer would fall under ADA, no question. I will say that flexing my hours was definitely not part of our agreement when I was hired. For the first few months I seemed to do okay, but then I started having problems again (isn't that always the way?). So I'm not sure if that would count as something that would fall under EEO? Thanks for the feedback, jules - I'm going to do a little homework. Though I really do want/need to get my sleep patterns "fixed" it would be nice if firing me because of this were not an option for them.

Thanks, Jules. *big hugs*

mars wrote:Hi CollegeGirl

I know exactly what you are talking about.

[snipped to keep the length of my post manageable ]

That is an absolutely great point, Mars, and great information, and I will definitely be trying that. When I've tried this in the past, I get absorbed in what I'm reading and again stay up significantly past bedtime because I just don't feel tired. Maybe I should take out some of my old college textbooks and read those instead.

I've considered putting the alarm clock across the room as you (and other people in my life) have suggested, but I'm forced to wear earplugs as I share a home with a roommate who works the night shift, and when he comes in in the wee hours he wakes me up if I don't have earplugs in. If I have the alarm clock across the room, I simply don't hear it with the earplugs. Maybe one of those "light machines" would work to wake me without hearing it - definitely worth a try.

Thanks again for the advice - I think you're really spot on.

PADACHEEK wrote:Oh I am so sorry you are struggling with this. Sleep Routine is not the easiest thing to make yourself do. My DH has to make himself stop all "screen time" at 9 PM. That means he misses TV shows he would like to see, and computer time that he wants to have. I envy his self control, I wish it would be shared with me.

It is not easy, I have seen him do this to help with his insomnia. We have proven to ourselves, when done EVERY night, it DOES work.
Sorry for your struggle, I do hope you can get a handle on this.
The National Sleep Foundation has great info for developing a great sleep schedule to help. I wish you the best and I do hope you can get a handle on this before it is too late.

Karen

Thanks, Karen. *big hugs*

That's just it - I don't know if it's a self-discipline/self-control issue (it very well may be! wouldn't be the first time ) or something like delayed sleep phase syndrome. I'll definitely look up the National Sleep Foundation's info on developing a sleep schedule. Thanks so much! *hugs again because I can and I've missed you!*

lktnky wrote:CG, glad to see you & sorry you're having troubles.
I had a hard time falling asleep, too, at first. What Karen says was also true for me.
I started doing my bedtime routine around 7 so I could calm back down after washing my face & brushing my teeth. Then it was NO TV or computer, just reading, and nothing in my bedroom. Bedroom had to be reserved for sleeping and that other thing
If I didn't fall asleep within 20 - 30 minutes, then I got out of bed and got a cup of milk or some small snack (bananas are good), read for awhile then back to bed. No caffeine, nothing that would jumpstart my brain into thinking it was time to think or worry or stew about something. Keep the lights low. Turn the clock to the wall so you can't see it.
After a few months I was able to begin deviating from my routine. I now don't have ANY trouble falling asleep as soon as my hosed head hits the pillow.
You can do it, but it does take discipline.
Keep us posted.
LKTNKY

Thanks, lktnky. Those are great tips. I already turn my clock to the wall, so at least I'm doing one thing right.

DreamStalker wrote:You need to reset your biological clock. Weekends are the best time to reset your clock. Do whatever it takes to get out of bed as early as possible and then exhaust yourself with exercise during the day.

Are you getting any exercise? Consider walking, swimming, or biking 30 minutes to an hour in the afternoon after getting off work.

It takes about 3 or 4 days for you to gradually reset your clock. That is why absolutely hate having to change back and forth with that idiotic daylight savings crap. Should be eliminated and if the people can ever take their government back from business interests.

Believe it or not, Dream, I'm already doing that! A couple of months ago I started walking four days a week after work, as far as I could until I was ready to drop (and then I'd turn around and head back to the car and walk that same distance over again (lol). Though I'm walking a LOT for a person of my, erm, stature (even my doc can't believe how much I'm walking) I'm still seeing no weight loss and no real boost in "energy" even after a couple of months. It physically wears me out to walk but still I'm not "mentally" tired enough to sleep when I get into bed unless it's late. Getting up on the weekends is something I know I need to do but haven't been, though. You're absolutely right!

newhosehead wrote:
I agree 100%, DreamStalker. And thank you for mentioning daylight savings time..idiotic is the right word.

CollegeGirl, I had the same issues you have before I started CPAP, so I don't know if this will help or even sound relevant to you, but I thought I would share on the off chance it might help. When I was in the same spot as you, I was always aware that there was a time EARLY in the evening when I was tired, did feel like going to sleep, but I didn't want to because it was too early (in my opinion of course) to go to bed. Do you ever feel tired early in the evening? If so, try going to bed then, don't wait thinking you "should" stay up later because there is something on TV or something you want to check on the computer. Just go and see what happens. Doing that turned it around for me but it took some time.
As I said,that was pre-CPAP for me, but it helped then and helps now, I just don't feel tired that early anymore unless I have physically worn myself out.

Sorry if this is of no help at all, just my two cents worth. I wish you the best with this. I used to be the person who slept through 2-3 alarms at full blast and was late for work or scrambling to get there on time. It's not easy, but you can turn it around.

Jeanette

Hi Jeanette! Of course it's helpful - any ideas at all are helpful for me at this point. Thanks so much for taking time to respond. I actually don't usually feel tired in the early evenings - I wish I did! I hope I can turn it around... I have to.

Wulfman wrote:Hi Ginny.

Sorry to hear about your situation. I can sort of relate. I was always a night owl......could and did work shift work and if I stayed up past about 10 PM, I would get my "second wind" and could stay up much longer. About the time I started this therapy, I started going to bed before that so I could get up before 5 AM and that seemed to work better.
One of the biggest obstacles is being able to clear one's mind from all the stressful things we think about, before bedtime. I'm not sure if I have any suggestions for that one......different things work (?) for different people. Stress is a tough one to overcome.

If you do exercise, I believe I've read where it needs to be several hours before bedtime.
Examine what foods and beverages you consume during the evening, too. Those can make a difference.

Good luck.

Den

Hi Den! Thanks for the empathy. Several hours before bedtime - I think you're right. Maybe I need to start doing it in the morning. Of course, that would require going to bed WAY earlier and getting up WAY earlier too - maybe I just need to cold turkey start doing this and deal with the extreme exhaustion for a couple of weeks until my body gets used to it. I'm scared, honestly... but that's going to be the only way I can incorporate everyone's awesome suggestions and turn things around, I think.

*Hugs* to you, Den, and to everyone else who responded to my thread. Now let's see if I can get those screenshots up so you guys can check behind me and make sure my cpap treatment is still on track like I think it is


Oops, Ozij posted before I had a chance to hit submit.

ozij wrote: I'm very sorry to hear that, CG.

There you have it in a nutshell: You consider your inconsistent sleep habits a medical issue. I honestly don't.
It takes persistence and hard work to change sleep habits and get better "sleep hygiene". Dr. Barry Krakow's book "Sound Sleep Sound Mind" is an excellent guide to better sleep -- even for people with OSA.

O.

Thanks, O. Here's why I think this is a medical issue rather than just bad sleep hygiene by itself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sl ... e_syndrome

This sounds to a T exactly like what I have experienced for the last 20 years of my life.

And now, those screenshots:

I, too, have trouble turning off my mind at night. I find that if I am reading, I want to keep reading. The solution for me, at least at this time, is to play solitaire on my Palm Pilot. I put on my mask and turn on my PR1 first. Since the screen is lighted, the room can be dark. It is just enough to keep my mind from wandering to other things, but boring enough to allow me to fall asleep pretty quickly. I know it isn't good sleep hygiene, but........

Chel

So......why don't you just set it to a fixed pressure? (12 cm.) I always wonder if the "pressure bumps" (probes) subconsciously disturb peoples' sleep.

Consistent bedtimes!?!?


Den

That's a good idea, Den. I tried that once and didn't really see any results, but who knows. It's worth trying again!

Yeah, you're right about the bedtimes. When I don't have work the next day I tend to stay up later because my instinct is to stay up until I'm completely exhausted. Okay, I need to quit staying up on weekend nights, too. lol

Chel, I have boring games on my Eris, too. Maybe I'll try that. lol.

Don't remember if it was mentioned about eating too late at night or not drinking coffee or tea past mid-day. And I turn the clock away from the bed, and even the night light in the hallway disturbs me. Your reports are fantastic so I hope you find a simple solution soon.