help me address these comments

So Well wrote:So Calist, first you complain that your patients are stupid and do not do any research:

Calist wrote:I hate to say this but... patients are stupid.

I wish my patients would do a little research and not stroll into the lab asking "Is this some kind of new fad thing?"

Then you advise them to remain stupid:

Calist wrote:Likewise if he came to me for sleep problems, he would trust me and do what I told him. He is the expert in his field as I am the expert in mine. For me to suddenly decide that I should take treatment into my own hands without research or efforts to learn the material, I could only expect disaster.

Everyone! Let me see if I can get your attention for just a minute. I'm going to give you the secret to medicine right here.

1: Find a doctor you trust. Some one that is really really good at what he does. It doesn't matter how his attitude is. There are a lot of doctors who comb their hair and look like a Calvin Kline model that don't know what they are doing. Stay away from them. There are a lot of them that look like hell and will call you names. It is fine so long as they know what they are doing.

2: Once you have found this doctor, trust him and everything he says unless he screws up or otherwise gives you a reason not to trust him.

3: Only see other physicians that he recommends. Do not see anyone that he has not approved. Doctors run in packs and it is usually the medicine vs profit seeking. You don't want to ask the wrong one whether or not you need your septum removed because he will say 'Yes... five or six times in fact.'

4: Do everything they tell you and do not question their treatment unless you are ready to turn your back on them completely and find another physician.

Just select a trusted doctor and do everything he says, eh?

So which is it going to be? Do you want patients who are fully involved in their therapy? Or do you want stupid patients who are involved only to the point of selecting a doctor?

Have you done some self-examination and fully thought through your rants?











Now you say emotions have no place in medicine:

Calist wrote:Emotional reactions have no place in medicine. Take your tears to church.

While at the same time you are posting some of the most emotional diatribes I have seen on the forum:

Calist wrote:Let me tell you something about death. Before I got into sleep I was an EEG tech at a trauma hospital. 80% of my patients were bloodheads. They were people who had smoked two packs a day well into their fifties, gained about 200 extra pounds and worked themselves to death while family members looked on with out thinking anything was the matter and when they stroked out and ended up being wheeled in front of me... so that I could confirm what everyone already knew... I was all business. The only way to approach medicine is by means of logic. If I ever develop a serious illness, I want a team that has ice water in their veins that knows their stuff forwards and backwards. I don't want a doctor that will hold my hand and cry while he watches me die. Ignorance will get you killed.

But don't listen to me. Seriously, take everything I say with a grain of salt. The best thing you can do is find yourself an EEG tech to shadow at Baptist Memorial Hospital in Memphis. Then you can come back and tell me you've seen death.


I have become so incredibly jaded over the years.

So which way do you want it? No emotions or emotions spilling over so badly that you have become jaded!

Your rants here are worthless. Unless you can step back, do some self-examination, refresh yourself with a new view, and push forward. Or you can continue to live in your narcissistic angst. The choice is yours.

Well said, on all points.

The smartest thing I have ever done was question my doctors. Had I not done so, my daughter would still have apnea (no snoring, excellent in school) and I would still have untreated narcolepsy and PCOS. I was compliant for TWO YEARS at a pressure that was almost double what I needed- and this was at the advice of my doctor. I adjusted myself gradually down until (thank God) more competent doctors finally came to my area. The best doctor I have ever had was willing to say "I don't know". Then she investigated for thorough, current answers and gave me options for treatment. The worst doctor insisted he was correct and refused to listen to what I had to say with an open mind. I never assume that my doctor will be arrogant and dismissive but many of us do not trust our doctors because we have had horrendous experiences. Once I have chosen a doctor, I continue to evaluate that doctor because that is what is best for my health. I don't just throw caution to the wind and pray that I have made a good choice.

It's ridiculous for a physician to expect a patient to accept his or her word without question because he feels that he has authority or power in some way. He or she does not know enough about a patient to gauge whether or not he or she is stupid. They only know one vulnerable facet of the patient's life, as evidenced by the fact that the patient is there for help. That is why it is important for a physician to treat his or her patients with respect and to internalize what the patient is trying to say.

It's not in the best interest of the patient to trust blindly instead of balancing what they are told and how they are treated against information they have gathered independently. I think some physicians feel threatened by the fact that information is so readily available in today's world. Some who do not seek information are in that position because they are just too depleted to do anything but rely on their physician. Those are the people who are really in danger. Checks and balances provide the most likely successful outcome for the patient. So do daily evaluations of numbers and tweaking to follow suit.

A doctor calls his patient names is a disgrace and has no interest in REALLY seeing what the patient needs and how he or she is symptomatic. You may have wished your patient could have repressed the tears. The reason you were uncomfortable with them is irrelevant. Your patient was emotional about her health. She didn't owe it to you to pretend that she wasn't. I'd put my money down to say that your patient was someone who cared about her therapy and was willing to do what she needed to do to feel better.

My physicians work for me and they want what is best for me. They aren't there to feed their egos or trample on my efforts to take care of and educate myself. They applaud my success and recognize that I have educated myself to the extent that I can and have successfully adjusted my therapy to give optimal results. I have the utmost respect for my current doctors because they respect me. They know that they are treating HUMAN BEINGS who should be afforded respect unless they demonstrate that they are unworthy of it. People are not unworthy of respect because they need medial care. I left the doctors who didn't care and I would encourage anyone who was poorly treated by their medical personnel to do the same.

I am awed to see that you mock patients who haven't had the same education you have. You know nothing of their opportunities or lack thereof. Nor do you know of their other kinds of brilliance or potential to learn about their medical needs. There is more than one kind of intelligence. Some people are academically inclined and that is the full extent of their wisdom. It''s worthless to be academically inclined if there is no ability to see the forest for the trees.

You paint yourself as quite the renaissance man, calist. Never assume that your patients are not equally as savvy or capable as you are. Barring ego gratification, it's seems that most ( 90%, perchance? That's not a scientifically proven number. ) of the people who walk through your door probably have a bigger emotional investment in their health than you do. You are bound to the Hippocratic Oath. First do no harm. You harm your patients when you assume that your patients are incompetent, their thoughts about their care are irrelevant and you are not bound to discuss their treatment with solemn respect. That is the bottom line.

I totally agree with Robysue, DoriC and sleepydawn.....and.....oh well, i can't remember...must be having one of those 90% stupuid patient moments.....

I've had it with arrogant doctors. I have my machine, and with 3 nights the fog has lifted a tiny bit....the family says i'm even perky this morning.....after 3 months of rental the insurance company gives me the machine and then hell will freeze over before i ever see this sleep doc in the box again. Then this machien goes on Auto and I give myself a range where I can my AHI WAY down....at the rate of return appointments to the arrogant sleep doc it would take me MONTHS to get my AHI down. And.....do remember it was my TRUSTED WONDERFUL doctor (now retired thank God) who FORGOT to tell me in 2002 I had sleep apnea and needed a CPAP. She just always recommended I go to the gym more....OR....oh the doctor I went to when she retired...that doctor just told me I was menopausal and put me on AMPHETAMINE! Yeppers...I'm done with arrogant doctors. I do have a good Primary Care doc right now....his only downfall is referring me to arrogant sleep doc who just wants pateints to shut up and trust him.

Calist....you need an attitude adjustment....big time.....from now on i'm just going to ignore you and your posts. But for some reason...i just have this feeling you ARE my sleep doc..... Now I know why he doesn't return phone calls, or doesn't have time to see me....he's too busy on the INTERNET telling us his patients are 90% STOOPID!!!

oh well, i'm glad that's out of my system. I'm just going to read the posters on here who make sense....the fine folks who taught me what an AHI was! And those forum members are not a self-proclaimed sleep doc. You know for what we REALLY know about you...you could be Elvis! And....I'm a neurosurgeon....and in my spare time I'm Judy Garland!!!

I'm not sure who mentioned Hippocratic Oath here but I'm pretty sure our friend did not take that oath. He mentioned something about the lab so I presume he's a lab tech or implies that he is. Speaking of lab techs, ours was an M.D, educated and practicing in India but was working as a lab tech here for 2years while he studied to meet the requirements to take the U.S. Boards. He was wonderful, dedicated, very knowledgeable, patient and respectful. He took me into the lab and showed me the equipment he would be using, gave me a mini-course on what he would be doing all night and in the morning when I returned, while Mike was still sleeping,he took me back again and let me see him sleeping on the screen and explained the graphs he was looking at. And unlike many others who have said their titrations were not pleasant or accurate, Mike had the best night's sleep in many years and his titration was 13. After 2 years of much experimenting using that pressure as our guide, he now sleeps at 12 which is pretty much on the mark. I hope Bakram has taken the Hippocratic Oath by now, he'll make a wonderful doctor.

Dori, what a wonderful tribute you wrote about your hub's sleep doc. Wow....very nice he explained things to you. I'm impressed, and glad you and hub had a good experience. I hope the doc has passed his boards also. He sounds like a very good person, probably a wonderful doctor now somewhere.

DoriC wrote:I'm not sure who mentioned Hippocratic Oath here but I'm pretty sure our friend did not take that oath. He mentioned something about the lab so I presume he's a lab tech or implies that he is. Speaking of lab techs, ours was an M.D, educated and practicing in India but was working as a lab tech here for 2years while he studied to meet the requirements to take the U.S. Boards. He was wonderful, dedicated, very knowledgeable, patient and respectful. He took me into the lab and showed me the equipment he would be using, gave me a mini-course on what he would be doing all night and in the morning when I returned, while Mike was still sleeping,he took me back again and let me see him sleeping on the screen and explained the graphs he was looking at. And unlike many others who have said their titrations were not pleasant or accurate, Mike had the best night's sleep in many years and his titration was 13. After 2 years of much experimenting using that pressure as our guide, he now sleeps at 12 which is pretty much on the mark. I hope Bakram has taken the Hippocratic Oath by now, he'll make a wonderful doctor.

That was me. If the poster is only attempting to present himself as if he is a physician his posts are all the more amusing to me now.

As a diabetic, I can no more imagine treating my OSA without a data capable machine, than I would treat my diabetes without a glucometer--SAME DOGGONE THING!---just more money for the data. And as for the cost of the equipment, I paid more for ONE hearing aid; no insurance.

So Well wrote:Just select a trusted doctor and do everything he says, eh?

So which is it going to be? Do you want patients who are fully involved in their therapy? Or do you want stupid patients who are involved only to the point of selecting a doctor?

Have you done some self-examination and fully thought through your rants?

Selecting a knowledgeable doctor and doing everything he says is perhaps the absolute smartest thing a patient could do. A patient who does research would end up finding that out.

So Well wrote:
Now you say emotions have no place in medicine:

While at the same time you are posting some of the most emotional diatribes I have seen on the forum:[/color]

Do not mistake my annoyed tone for emotion. I emulate annoyance naturally.

Calist wrote:Let me tell you something about death. Before I got into sleep I was an EEG tech at a trauma hospital. 80% of my patients were bloodheads. They were people who had smoked two packs a day well into their fifties, gained about 200 extra pounds and worked themselves to death while family members looked on with out thinking anything was the matter and when they stroked out and ended up being wheeled in front of me... so that I could confirm what everyone already knew... I was all business. The only way to approach medicine is by means of logic. If I ever develop a serious illness, I want a team that has ice water in their veins that knows their stuff forwards and backwards. I don't want a doctor that will hold my hand and cry while he watches me die. Ignorance will get you killed.

But don't listen to me. Seriously, take everything I say with a grain of salt. The best thing you can do is find yourself an EEG tech to shadow at Baptist Memorial Hospital in Memphis. Then you can come back and tell me you've seen death.


I have become so incredibly jaded over the years.

So which way do you want it? No emotions or emotions spilling over so badly that you have become jaded!

Your rants here are worthless. Unless you can step back, do some self-examination, refresh yourself with a new view, and push forward. Or you can continue to live in your narcissistic angst. The choice is yours.[/quote]

Refresh myself with a new view? Perhaps I should use the healing power of laughter on my patients? Are we throwing out science in favor of positive thinking?

Go have two heart attacks and then come back and ask me for help. Or, if you'd like to keep your pride. Die with it.

sleepydawn wrote: Well said, on all points.

The smartest thing I have ever done was question my doctors. Had I not done so, my daughter would still have apnea (no snoring, excellent in school) and I would still have untreated narcolepsy and PCOS. I was compliant for TWO YEARS at a pressure that was almost double what I needed- and this was at the advice of my doctor. I adjusted myself gradually down until (thank God) more competent doctors finally came to my area. The best doctor I have ever had was willing to say "I don't know".

Thats a decent doctor right there.

sleepydawn wrote:Then she investigated for thorough, current answers and gave me options for treatment.

That is how medicine is supposed to work. Whoever she is, stick with her.

sleepydawn wrote:The worst doctor insisted he was correct and refused to listen to what I had to say with an open mind. I never assume that my doctor will be arrogant and dismissive but many of us do not trust our doctors because we have had horrendous experiences. Once I have chosen a doctor, I continue to evaluate that doctor because that is what is best for my health. I don't just throw caution to the wind and pray that I have made a good choice.

Never pray that you have made a good choice. Go investigate the guy. Or gal. Call around, ask nurses, techs, receptionists at hospitals. They know what is going on and the majority aren't afraid to tell you. Even me, I don't badmouth anyone to patients but when they have a good doctor treating them, I go out of my way to make sure they know it.

sleepydawn wrote:It's ridiculous for a physician to expect a patient to accept his or her word without question because he feels that he has authority or power in some way. He or she does not know enough about a patient to gauge whether or not he or she is stupid. They only know one vulnerable facet of the patient's life, as evidenced by the fact that the patient is there for help. That is why it is important for a physician to treat his or her patients with respect and to internalize what the patient is trying to say.

Alright, this is where you and I part ways. I am going to direct this question towards everyone....

Who here has read "The Principles Of Polysomnography" By William H Spriggs?

Anyone? Anyone? Am I the only one? Lets try another one.


Who here has read "The Principles and Practices of Sleep Medicine" By Kryger, Roth and Demend?

Anyone? No one?

Okay, if a person has not read either of those two books then I am sorry to inform you that you are taking everything you know about sleep on faith. This is not anything new however, this is very common in some cultures. Some might even argue that it is human nature to take a myth, compare it against an assumption, label it truth and call yourselves an expert on the matter. If one doctor tells you something and another doctor tells you the same thing... that is not proof of anything. That is your determination that the object is 'probably true' because it is statistically improbable that both Doctors are wrong about the same thing. This is not just a problem among non-medical personnel. This has been a problem at hospitals for hundreds of years. It is a sign of bad medicine and corrupt practices.

The phrase "It is common knowledge so it must be true." will ever so often infect the medical field and cause untold harm to millions of people.

sleepydawn wrote:It's not in the best interest of the patient to trust blindly instead of balancing what they are told and how they are treated against information they have gathered independently.

I can understand that you feel this way. Seriously, I seriously can. But blind trust is the only option that a patient has except for one other thing...

You read all of the material yourself, study and declare yourself to be your own doctor. I understand that this does not seem like a viable alternative. I understand that if a patient is diagnosed with something time sensitive like NMS, I do not have 3 years to go to med school, a year to intern and two years for Neurology. Must less any time to actually get good at it.

Independently gathered information is not all it's cracked up to be. Even a bad doctor is still better than the information that you will independently gather.

sleepydawn wrote:I think some physicians feel threatened by the fact that information is so readily available in today's world.

I have never known a single physician to say or think that in any way. If anything it is the opposite. I know that after saying this however you will dismiss it and go on believing that but it is true. Physicians wish that patients would access A LOT more information than they do. What they tend to do nowadays is pick up speculation and statistical assumptions from magazines and news shows. Word of mouth and rumors. After receiving a diagnosis, they then use these assumptions in an attempt to argue against the diagnosis. These individuals are then written off as patients who will eventually attempt to self-medicate themselves until the situation becomes so dire that they return and beg for help.

sleepydawn wrote:Some who do not seek information are in that position because they are just too depleted to do anything but rely on their physician.

That is what happens 99% of the time. In situations like that, it is imperative to have a good Doctor. (Not just sleep but in all medicine.)

sleepydawn wrote:Those are the people who are really in danger. Checks and balances provide the most likely successful outcome for the patient.

Medicine has it's own system of checks and balances, a system that the patient is hardly even involved in and usually knows nothing about. The idea that 'all doctors are in on it together and will cover for each other' could not be farther from the truth.

sleepydawn wrote:So do daily evaluations of numbers and tweaking to follow suit. A doctor calls his patient names is a disgrace and has no interest in REALLY seeing what the patient needs and how he or she is symptomatic.

This is precisely the kind of assumptions that I am talking about. Your statement that a physician who calls his patients names has no interest in REALLY seeing what the patient needs. I call my patients names all the time. I call it to their face, not behind their back. I call them stupid and I am extremely blunt with them. As a result of which, I am one of those people who should not have any interest in seeing to what they REALLY need. But I have sacrificed my life for them. I work 16hours days and I would bend over backwards for each and every one of them. As a result of which I get patients sent to me from all over the state.

I am not bragging here. Respect and prestige are the words that people use who are in pursuit of it, but when you are one of the best people in your field in your area, you call it patientload, overtime, dedication and even obsession. You find very quickly that it is nothing to brag about as it is not a very healthy occupation. I call them names, I call them stupid, I tell them not to even try to understand sleep medicine unless they are ready to go all the way. Anything less is irresponsible, especially when you repeat it to others.

sleepydawn wrote:You may have wished your patient could have repressed the tears. The reason you were uncomfortable with them is irrelevant. Your patient was emotional about her health. She didn't owe it to you to pretend that she wasn't. I'd put my money down to say that your patient was someone who cared about her therapy and was willing to do what she needed to do to feel better.

She trusted me and she did what I said. I called her stupid and she thanked me. Now she is fixed and doing a lot better. If she develops any other problems, she knows who to go to. She will go to the Doctor that referred her to me because he has already shown her that he cares for her well being.

sleepydawn wrote:My physicians work for me and they want what is best for me. They aren't there to feed their egos or trample on my efforts to take care of and educate myself. They applaud my success and recognize that I have educated myself to the extent that I can and have successfully adjusted my therapy to give optimal results.

I agree that they are not trying to feed their own egos or trample your efforts to educate yourself. I really do. They seem like stand-up people and I applaud them for that. I am glad as well that they did it all with a smile on their faces and did not get snarky with you. But "and recognize that I have educated myself to the extent that I can" I don't buy it. You can do a million times better. Remember those two books? Have you read them? You have not even begun to educate yourself to the extent that you can.

As a result, I must assume that they have recognized no such thing.

sleepydawn wrote:I have the utmost respect for my current doctors because they respect me. They know that they are treating HUMAN BEINGS who should be afforded respect unless they demonstrate that they are unworthy of it. People are not unworthy of respect because they need medial care. I left the doctors who didn't care and I would encourage anyone who was poorly treated by their medical personnel to do the same.

Respect is what desk clerks give to people that check into hotels. Respect is very close to the hospitality business. Respect does play a part in medicine. A very small part. All medicine should be driven by "A respect for Human Life" and not "A respect for a patient's feelings."

There may not seem like much of a difference there but trust me, I have to make that decision every single day. When your Doctors come to that decision, I am hoping they make the right choice.

sleepydawn wrote:I am awed to see that you mock patients who haven't had the same education you have.

It is as simple as going to the library.

sleepydawn wrote:You know nothing of their opportunities or lack thereof.

If I can do it, they can do it. If they decide 'It's too hard' then they need to shut up and trust me. There is no other option. Making it up as you go along is not and should never be a viable option. Either go and actually approach this from a logical perspective of in-depth research or find some one to shut up and trust because the only other option a patient is going to have is to read some posts on CPAPTALK.COM and decide to be their own physicians.

sleepydawn wrote:Nor do you know of their other kinds of brilliance or potential to learn about their medical needs.

Smartest thing I ever heard a patient say to me was from a Cardiologist that drove fifty miles to my lab. He said "Primary Snore, please help me."

sleepydawn wrote:There is more than one kind of intelligence.

Did common knowledge teach you that?

sleepydawn wrote:Some people are academically inclined and that is the full extent of their wisdom. It''s worthless to be academically inclined if there is no ability to see the forest for the trees.

I will definitely agree to that. So I'll be academically inclined and you can be the silly girl who teaches me to love again. We can get lifetime to make a movie of the week about it. I will insult you, hurt your feelings, fix your sleep related problems and you can take me out dancing afterwards. Just leave the academics to the academics. Don't make something up and decide that you are a different kind of academic. A different kind of intelligent for a different kind of medicine.

sleepydawn wrote:You paint yourself as quite the renaissance man, calist.

Because I went to school? Read some books? Spent ten years falling on my face trying to help people and spent another ten years trying to keep them from killing themselves with ignorant ideas of self-medication justified by a wreckless view of science? That makes me a renaissance man? You need to get out more.

sleepydawn wrote:Never assume that your patients are not equally as savvy or capable as you are.

No, always assume that your patients are capable of nothing, they know nothing and they are lying to you about EVERYTHING. If you do that then you will be in a position to save their lives over and over again. If you slip up even once and some one slips through the cracks, you loose.

It is hilarious to listen to you because you start off by condemning physicians that tell patients what they want to hear, physicians that lie to patients and want patients to think well of them. Physicians that take a patients advice and encourage them to diagnose themselves. You complain about bad doctors and all the harm they've done to you and then you sit here and perfectly describe how they got to be that way.

If you want some one that is just going to agree with you and nod their heads and tell you how smart you are then go to a hotel and talk to the desk clerk. A doctor's job is to fix his or her patient and thats it. You can pay a hooker to give you good bedside manner if you survive it.

sleepydawn wrote: Barring ego gratification, it's seems that most ( 90%, perchance? That's not a scientifically proven number. ) of the people who walk through your door probably have a bigger emotional investment in their health than you do.

Not even close. Most of my patients don't even know why they are here. They come in because their referring physician saw something dangerous in an EKG and when they broke it down into layman's terms for the patient it came out sounding like a scare tactic (because that is all the patient is going to understand).

"You have an inverted T-wave"

"What?"

"I'm sending you for a PSG so you don't die."

"Okay."

I on the other hand am committed to making sure they stay off an EEG tech's stretcher.

sleepydawn wrote:You are bound to the Hippocratic Oath. First do no harm.

That part is easy. I could do that at home. I'm salaried. In fact I could go so far as to say that I could Do no harm from a beach in Florida. You have no idea how much vacation time I have built up. I could Do no harm for six months if I wanted to. But then... who would see the patients?

sleepydawn wrote:You harm your patients when you assume that your patients are incompetent,

If they were competent... they wouldn't be here talking to me. They would have treated themselves effectively a long time ago. You and I have different definitions of the word competent. I am competent enough to intervene in a patient's life and change things for the better. They however need me to help them. They are incompetent. You harm people when you tell them that they are competent. If they believe you and you turn out to be wrong, their pain is on your hands.

sleepydawn wrote:their thoughts about their care are irrelevant

Bacteria does not consider the thoughts of it's host and neither does penicillin. The only thing in science which is relevant is the truth.

sleepydawn wrote:and you are not bound to discuss their treatment with solemn respect. That is the bottom line.

I can discuss their treatment with them. I have even taught classes years ago. It would take about six months of classroom time to get them to the most basic understanding however. They can of course shorten this time by reading up before the class. I would recommend reading just about every pre-med resource they can possibly get their hands on and anything that deals with the respiratory system and blood gasses. Oh and neurology. That is a good place to start from.

DoriC wrote:I'm not sure who mentioned Hippocratic Oath here but I'm pretty sure our friend did not take that oath. He mentioned something about the lab so I presume he's a lab tech or implies that he is. Speaking of lab techs, ours was an M.D, educated and practicing in India but was working as a lab tech here for 2years while he studied to meet the requirements to take the U.S. Boards. He was wonderful, dedicated, very knowledgeable, patient and respectful. He took me into the lab and showed me the equipment he would be using, gave me a mini-course on what he would be doing all night and in the morning when I returned, while Mike was still sleeping,he took me back again and let me see him sleeping on the screen and explained the graphs he was looking at. And unlike many others who have said their titrations were not pleasant or accurate, Mike had the best night's sleep in many years and his titration was 13. After 2 years of much experimenting using that pressure as our guide, he now sleeps at 12 which is pretty much on the mark. I hope Bakram has taken the Hippocratic Oath by now, he'll make a wonderful doctor.

Oh my god, I know him. I heard he left GWSDC about six years ago, glad to see he is still running studies.

Junebug999 wrote:I totally agree with Robysue, DoriC and sleepydawn.....and.....oh well, i can't remember...must be having one of those 90% stupuid patient moments.....

I've had it with arrogant doctors. I have my machine, and with 3 nights the fog has lifted a tiny bit....the family says i'm even perky this morning.....after 3 months of rental the insurance company gives me the machine and then hell will freeze over before i ever see this sleep doc in the box again. Then this machien goes on Auto and I give myself a range where I can my AHI WAY down....at the rate of return appointments to the arrogant sleep doc it would take me MONTHS to get my AHI down. And.....do remember it was my TRUSTED WONDERFUL doctor (now retired thank God) who FORGOT to tell me in 2002 I had sleep apnea and needed a CPAP. She just always recommended I go to the gym more....OR....oh the doctor I went to when she retired...that doctor just told me I was menopausal and put me on AMPHETAMINE! Yeppers...I'm done with arrogant doctors. I do have a good Primary Care doc right now....his only downfall is referring me to arrogant sleep doc who just wants pateints to shut up and trust him.

Calist....you need an attitude adjustment....big time.....from now on i'm just going to ignore you and your posts. But for some reason...i just have this feeling you ARE my sleep doc..... Now I know why he doesn't return phone calls, or doesn't have time to see me....he's too busy on the INTERNET telling us his patients are 90% STOOPID!!!

oh well, i'm glad that's out of my system. I'm just going to read the posters on here who make sense....the fine folks who taught me what an AHI was! And those forum members are not a self-proclaimed sleep doc. You know for what we REALLY know about you...you could be Elvis! And....I'm a neurosurgeon....and in my spare time I'm Judy Garland!!!

So your sleep doc.... fixed you?

And you hate him?

If you turn out to be one of my patients, I am printing this out and putting it up on the board in our offices. I like this part "I do have a good Primary Care doc right now....his only downfall is referring me to arrogant sleep doc who just wants pateints to shut up and trust him." Too much. hehe.

Calist wrote:So your sleep doc.... fixed you?

And you hate him?

If you turn out to be one of my patients, I am printing this out and putting it up on the board in our offices. I like this part "I do have a good Primary Care doc right now....his only downfall is referring me to arrogant sleep doc who just wants pateints to shut up and trust him." Too much. hehe.

Damn, you are such an asshole.

Hehe back.

NotMuffy wrote:

Calist wrote:So your sleep doc.... fixed you?

And you hate him?

If you turn out to be one of my patients, I am printing this out and putting it up on the board in our offices. I like this part "I do have a good Primary Care doc right now....his only downfall is referring me to arrogant sleep doc who just wants pateints to shut up and trust him." Too much. hehe.

Damn, you are such an asshole.

Hehe back.

If your 'NotMuffy'... can I be muffy?

Calist wrote:

NotMuffy wrote:

Calist wrote:So your sleep doc.... fixed you?

And you hate him?

If you turn out to be one of my patients, I am printing this out and putting it up on the board in our offices. I like this part "I do have a good Primary Care doc right now....his only downfall is referring me to arrogant sleep doc who just wants pateints to shut up and trust him." Too much. hehe.

Damn, you are such an asshole.

Hehe back.

If your 'NotMuffy'... can I be muffy?

Not in a million years.

NotMuffy wrote:

Calist wrote:

NotMuffy wrote:

Calist wrote:So your sleep doc.... fixed you?

And you hate him?

If you turn out to be one of my patients, I am printing this out and putting it up on the board in our offices. I like this part "I do have a good Primary Care doc right now....his only downfall is referring me to arrogant sleep doc who just wants pateints to shut up and trust him." Too much. hehe.

Damn, you are such an asshole.

Hehe back.

If your 'NotMuffy'... can I be muffy?

Not in a million years.

BINGO! jlk

calist asked:

So your sleep doc.... fixed you?

And you hate him?

My sleep doc has NOT fixed me. I've met with him once (before starting CPAP). I have a follow-up scheduled in a week and a half. All I know right now is that I am feeling orders of magnitude WORSE since starting CPAP. My machine is running in CPAP mode at the pressure in the doctor's prescription. That prescription was written based on a study conducted by a sleep tech where I was titrated at my current pressure for a whopping 30--40 minutes or so at the very end of the night. I am 100% compliant. At my one and only meeting with the sleep doctor I brought up the fact that I was worried about what kind of problems I might have adjusting to the therapy. His answer was essentially to blow me off by saying something along the lines of "Don't worry, you'll get used to it quicker than you think and it won't be a problem." So at this point, I have to say, No. My sleep doctor has not "fixed me"

And even when I eventually adjust to CPAP therapy, I would say that my doctor has not "fixed me". Rather, with guidance from the sleep doctor, the sleep techs, and the respiratory techs, I will be managing a serious health condition, not fixing it. To fix my apnea would mean curing it. And even the best sleep doc in the world can't do that yet.

And no I don't hate him (yet). But at my one and only meeting with the sleep doctor, I did not come away thinking that he genuinely cared about me and my particular sleep apnea problem. Rather it was clear that he regarded my case as completely run-of-the-mill, boring, uninteresting, and that he expected me to immediately adjust to CPAP therapy with no problems at all and no need to be able to see if my AHI number went down on therapy. My husband has called the office about my new (and alarming) daytime symptoms because I feel I am too emotionally distraught to talk to the doctor in a rational fashion. We're in a game of phone tag. We call, the office says the doctor will call back. But we have our own lives and commitments so that after waiting two hours for a return call, we have to leave. And then when we return home, there's a call from the doc's office on the phone saying they are trying to reach me. Yeah I know, I could just give them my work number. But I really don't want to discuss this problem in my office where I might have students when the phone rings. What about a cell phone? Well, I don't have one and I don't want one. Yeah I know, you probably think I should get a cell phone just for this purpose, but I disagree.

The general attitude conveyed by the language in calist's posts is why many people feel intimidated by their doctors. And that intimidation actually leads to many of the patient behaviors that calist so dislikes. Right now I do feel intimidated by my sleep doctor. And I do think that is impairing my ability to get quality treatment for a condition that I will have to live with and manage the rest of my life.