CompSA, Hypoventilation, PLMs, Bradycardia and Hypotension?

Whew, I can't keep things straight. Did you quit taking the fluoxetine before your PSG? If so, was it temporarily? Sure wish "we" could fast forward to that appointment in a few weeks. My money is still on your limb movements being the major player in your sleep instability.

Muse-Inc wrote:

brain_cloud wrote:

Muse-Inc wrote: Re the SSRI...bad stuff! If I were in your shoes, I'd start taking omega 3 EFAs (essential fatty acids); they achieve the same psychoactive results as the SSRIs without the side effects.

Unbelievably moronic thing to say.

Do the investigation. It's like the decades of selling of saturated fats and/or cholesterol as a cause of cardiovascular events...as you said, moronic. 20+ yrs of studies disprove that assumption yet big pharma still has a stanglehold on public perception and yes that includes docs who simply don't have time (or, in some cases, the desire) to read the research.

I'm confused... Muse are you saying there is solid research that fish oil works as well for anxiety and depression as SSRIs? I would like to read this. BTW, I may start taking fish oil for dry eyes, but not sure exactly what to take.

SleepingUgly wrote:I'm confused... Muse are you saying there is solid research that fish oil works as well for anxiety and depression as SSRIs?...

Yes. I've been reading about them for at least 20 (maybe 30) yrs, so not sure where to tell you to start but the studies are out there...maybe PubMed? I started reading more studies this decade.

I googled "depression" & "omega 3": About 1,390,000 results (0.16 seconds)

Muse-Inc wrote:

SleepingUgly wrote:I'm confused... Muse are you saying there is solid research that fish oil works as well for anxiety and depression as SSRIs?...

Yes. I've been reading about them for at least 20 (maybe 30) yrs, so not sure where to tell you to start but the studies are out there...maybe PubMed? I started reading more studies this decade.

I googled "depression" & "omega 3": About 1,390,000 results (0.16 seconds)

What ratio of Omega 3 to Omega 6 or DHE or whatever... ??

SleepingUgly wrote:...may start taking fish oil...but not sure exactly what to take.

I take Coromega (emulsified so no burps etcetera) and flavored gel...I like the orange, mom prefers the lemon-lime: I packette/day tho a friend with lupus had such good results she went to 3/day, her doc was amazed at the good response to the omega 3. I also take a high DHA (low EPA) supplement for it's effect on the brain. If you take fish oils and get burps or other unpleasant effects and don't want to try Coromega, try Neuromins; they are made from the algae that fish eat rather than fish oil and work for people with fish allergies.

SleepingUgly wrote:What ratio of Omega 3 to Omega 6 or DHE or whatever... ??

Some researchers believe it should be 3:6 in the ratio of 10:1 (we Americans tend to eat the reverse 1:20 or even 1:40), but everyone I've read who makes a suggestion agrees it should be at least 2:1 if not 3-4:1. Easiest way to get there is add omega 3 supplements & eat walnuts & wild-caught salmon (farmed are fed grain not algae) and reduce/eliminate veggy oils (mostly omega 6).

Muse-Inc wrote:I googled "depression" & "omega 3": About 1,390,000 results

15,300 search returns on Google Scholar, which tends to offer more white papers: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=dep ... =en&tab=ws

a friend with lupus had such good results she went to 3/day

Meaning good results with lupus symptoms, depression, or both?

Also, I'll point out that otters in the wild, who eat PLENTY of fish, always seem happy according to most of the black-and-white Disney specials I have viewed. They ALWAYS look happy. Food for thought....

kteague wrote:Whew, I can't keep things straight. Did you quit taking the fluoxetine before your PSG? If so, was it temporarily? Sure wish "we" could fast forward to that appointment in a few weeks. My money is still on your limb movements being the major player in your sleep instability.

Hi kt, Yes, I did stop, temporarily, a few weeks out from my diagnostic. I now understand this was probably an error in judgement on my behalf, something I am now going to raise with the new sleep doctor in a month or so. Be interesting to see if you have put your money on the winning horse when the dust settles! Cheers,

-SWS wrote: Meaning good results with lupus symptoms, depression, or both?

She was on methytrexate several times/wk with terrible bruising and other physical symptoms, all of which improved dramatically. She was staying with my mom & me for a few weeks and I offered her some of mine; within 2-3 days on 1 packette/day, the bruising was fading, her fatigue was easing, and she felt much less ill. She bumped up to 3/day when she got her own supply; when she went home, her doc was pretty darned amazed at what he saw andwhat she reported (she was a nurse). So, was it the side effects of the drug that the omega 3s reduced or what? Good question. I lost touch with her after several months when she broke her engagement to one of my friends so I don't know if she continued the Coromegas but during those months she was able to significantly reduce the methytrexate.

-SWS wrote:...otters...

dsm wrote:

brain_cloud wrote:

Muse-Inc wrote: Re the SSRI...bad stuff! If I were in your shoes, I'd start taking omega 3 EFAs (essential fatty acids); they achieve the same psychoactive results as the SSRIs without the side effects.

Unbelievably moronic thing to say.

brain_cloud,

An answer that others of us could understand or share in would be more helpful.
Can you summarize briefly the issue of one vs the other ?

It's simple. The SSRI's have been proven to be effective treatments for depression and anxiety. Omega 3's haven't. Full stop.

Omega 3 isn't a first line treatment for depression; not a second line treatment for depression, not an augmentation treatment for depression. It is sometimes used as an augmentation strategy for mood stabilization in bipolar depression.

Instead of the million-plus hits on google ( ), I'll just offer as my citation one of the most respected texts on psychopharmacology, "Stahl's Essential Psychopharmacology", 3rd Ed., Stephen Stahl. No doubt he's part of the cabal, though, getting his marching orders from "Big Pharma", Uranus, and the Trilateral Commission.

brain_cloud wrote:Stephen Stahl. No doubt he's part of the cabal, though, getting his marching orders from "Big Pharma", Uranus, and the Trilateral Commission.

Hi BC, Cheers,

Muse-Inc wrote:SSRI...bad stuff!

Hi M-I, The reality for me is that they have been profoundly helpful. My wife and I call them my happy tablets. If it weren't for CBT AND fluoxetine I most likely would not have come to the place where I had developed enough self awareness to ask the question: "Am I sleeping right?" High stress levels in my earlier days had taken its toll on me and fluoxetine helped me to come down from the ceiling. Cheers,

brain_cloud wrote:
<snip>

It's simple. The SSRI's have been proven to be effective treatments for depression and anxiety. Omega 3's haven't. Full stop.

Omega 3 isn't a first line treatment for depression; not a second line treatment for depression, not an augmentation treatment for depression. It is sometimes used as an augmentation strategy for mood stabilization in bipolar depression.

<snip>

I'll just offer as my citation one of the most respected texts on psychopharmacology, "Stahl's Essential Psychopharmacology", 3rd Ed., Stephen Stahl.

<snip>

Many thanks - that helps me

Cheers

DSM

-SWS wrote:Also, I'll point out that otters in the wild, who eat PLENTY of fish, always seem happy according to most of the black-and-white Disney specials I have viewed. They ALWAYS look happy. Food for thought....

So otters are "brain-food", too? How do you cook an otter? Are they high in Omega 3?

IYAM, I don't see where bb actually has anything that should be treated by flox. I mean, the GP goes, "Here, try these for a while and see what happens". What makes him qualified to dx and rx?

blizzardboy wrote:The reality for me is that they have been profoundly helpful. My wife and I call them my happy tablets.

You could fire up the Bong, too, and get that effect. Are you treating depression or getting stoned?

OK bb, here's another form:

http://healthnet.umassmed.edu/mhealth/HAMD.pdf

Muffy

Muffy wrote:http://healthnet.umassmed.edu/mhealth/HAMD.pdf

Although we really need four of 'em:

• Before any treatment
• On effective xPAP
• On therapeutic SSRI
• On effective xPAP and therpeutic SSRI

And then repeat with otter-level fish consumption.

If this thread don't make Number 1 I'll be sildenafiled.

Muffy