Resmed Internet Price Policy?

I don't happen to agree w/too much of that article. I fail to see where he gets off putting so much responsibility on the manufacturers to educate the end-users. I think the manufacturers, at least Resmed, Respironics and Puritan Bennet and now even DeVilbiss and Fisher & Paykel, have done a great job in providing information - if the freaking SLEEP DOCTORS and FDA would back off and allow the patients to access that information.

I've stated it before and will state it again and again IMO it is the SLEEP DOCTORS who are shirking THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to see to it that their patients are educated, informed and supported. It is THEIR RESPONSIBILITY, if it is not feasible for them to do so themselves, to provide the knowledgeable staff to do so. The sleep doctors provide the Dx, they provide the script or the necessary information for the referring doctor to write the script (just another way for the sleep doctor to shirk his/her responsiblities), therefore it is THE SLEEP DOCTOR'S RESPONSIBLITY to see that the patient receives the education and support they need to succeed.

IMO the manufacturers and the good RPSGTs are the true heroes of sleep medicine. The rest of the bunch, w/few exceptions, get failing grades in my book. cpap.com obviously is one of those few exceptions.

roster wrote:It still doesn't make sense to me. The letter 2kat posted says, "The new policy will result in an outright ban on internet sales below the Minimum Internet Retail Price (MIRP) as dictated by Resmed. You can expect price increases on the order of 30% for CPAP masks and 80% or more for CPAP machines after these new policies take effect on March 15, 2010."

How does our host get around this?

I guess we don't know if they do get around it yet since March 15 hasn't arrived--but I suspect that phone sales are NOT considered internet sales, and therefore not subject to the pricing requirements. Note that the ResMed S9 machines are listed with full price on the web site (not "Call us for Price" like the Respironics machines), but if you call them, they have different pricing over the phone.

The internet is a very VERY powerful tool.
Without getting into the details of how I know this and why here is what I suggest. Either sit back and do nothing and pay the price or not OR:
Everyone that shops around for an S9 post the pricing that they have received online here and the other forums with the suppliers name and phone number. Simple as that. It won't take very long before ResMed either suffers a severe drop in sales volume, or, sales volume remains the same and the suppliers that are willing to sell "by phone" (get it?) are doing all of the business. ResMed could, of course, cut these suppliers off and they do take a very minor risk by selling by phone (forget the internet... you are going to be buying by phone from now on, right?).

I will be thinking about being the first guinea pig to do this when I finally get around to buying the S9 series, which I am seriously contemplating right now. If I am going to have it 'stuck to me' you can rest assured that it will NOT be a ResMed or Respironics product that I purchase. In fact, perhaps this is the time for some entrepreneurs to reverse-engineer the product, have it manufactured off-shore for 1/4 of the cost and start selling it as "Smiling Cheeks" CPAP equipment, made in China (I hate to say this but they are producing some world class electronics these days and the fact is that OUR own armed forces in the USA and Canada are using equipment made in other countries simply because it is better engineered, better made, and cheaper. This is no exception and if the keep the prices jacked up like the cellphone industry tried to do (Hello Motorola?) the offshore companies will eat them up alive in short order. In fact, Contec Medical Systems Company in Qinhuangdao, China comes to mind immediately. They make that marvellous CMS 50E oximeter and a bunch of other hospital grade gear and this would just be a minor adjustment to their production lines.

The question then arises, why would I want to change from my S8 to an S9? Comments on both thoughts?

By the way, suffice it to say that there were several firms sitting on high horses that were put down and out in short order by doing exactly what ResMed is suggesting. I am absolutely flabbergasted that state and federal government in the USA do not have significant teeth as I can recall a number of cases of company executives being heavily fined and jailed for restraint of trade, restraint of interstate trade, and a variety of laws preventing 'price-fixing'. What ever happened to the 'free enterprise' system? (Sorry, that is venting and is non-productive).

roster wrote:

jnk wrote:Seems like one of those Groundhog Day kind of things that gets relived every few years . . .

http://www.cpap-supply.com/Articles.asp?ID=133

That is a good article that Senske posted. I disagree with only one point in it:

While I'd like to think my company and I rank high on the importance factor in this regard, I know very well that CPAP equipment suppliers - both online and local brick-and-mortars - have a rather limited role in patient compliance.

As many of you have testified here, one internet supplier has a robust role in patient compliance. They provide this excellent forum.

With all due respect to ResMed (if any is due) they are afflicted with swollen heads, the same as Motorola was in the 80's with regards to cellular phones and two-way radio equipment and are now a mere shadow of their former selves. Go into a phone store and tell me how many Motorola $5,000 cellphone you see on the shelves? I knew they weren't worth the money back then and they certainly are not worth the money today.

So what happened? Simple. More efficient and better equipped firms got into the cellular business. Firms like Nokia, Qualcomm, and the like. And guess where most of the equipment was made? "MADE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" . Nonsense. Our government decided, in their infinite wisdom, that the only thing that WE had to do was the final assembly in order to be able to say "MADE IN THE USA". Like putting the antenna on or adding the packaging. So, today, where is all the cellular gear made? You can be sure it is not in the USA and you can be sure that the prices were brought down by the consumer.

As to the manufacturer taking ANY part whatsoever in treatment or compliance that is absolute balogna and always has been. Sure, they are making equipment that provides better feedback data but that is where it stops. It is clinicians, patients, MD's, etc., that are involved in the treatment and the manufacturer's only part is to produce a product that fits the needs and desires of the consumer and it has ever been thus. Stating that 'they are our friends and are doing this for us' is in simple terms.... BS. It is the marketing ploy that every self-serving manufacturer uses to make the sheep believe that they are better off. Let us NOT be sheep and put a stop to this idiocy. Let us be proactive. Tell them you are no longer going to be buying their products or any products that they are associated with. Better yet, let's get a firm like Contec making this gear for 1/4 of the cost and do what the Japanese car makers did for us... clean up the market. How is it that Japanese cars are better made and better supported and more profitable than our own? Simple. Figure it out.

When everyone calms down a bit - consider this as a reality alert.

Resmed (& Respironics) biggest problem is the fact they get their biggest sales by selling into the FDA controlled & regulated USA market which in turn is dominated by large health insurance companies and DME chains.

Ranting & railing against individual vendors (a practice that has been repeated here at cpaptalk like clockwork since at least 2005/6) does not fix the fact of who calls the shots in this market.

Cheers

DSM

dsm wrote:When everyone calms down a bit - consider this as a reality alert.

Resmed (& Respironics) biggest problem is the fact they get their biggest sales by selling into the FDA controlled & regulated USA market which in turn is dominated by large health insurance companies and DME chains.

Ranting & railing against individual vendors (a practice that has been repeated here at cpaptalk like clockwork since at least 2005/6) does not fix the fact of who calls the shots in this market.

Cheers

DSM

(hmmm so who gets to shoot the messenger this time )

Having never dealt with the FDA I cannot comment but one wonders how difficult it would be to produce some samples for FDA testing in order to get FDA approval; failing which I wonder about goods that we bring in from Hong Kong these days without FDA approval that seem to hit the market with great regularity. In fact, up here near Toronto, I seem to be receiving my goodies from Hong Kong FASTER than I do from stateside. We often have stateside goods shipped to Buffalo and then just head down and pick it up since it's only a short drive. We recently ordered some laptop batteries for our HP's tha were $30 each as opposed to $180 from HP and had higher capacity. I could not believe it so I order one. It arrived some 3 days later from Hong Kong and was great. So we ordered five more. They all work better than the HP procut and were a fraction of the cost. Had trouble with one of them and the supplier didn't even want it back... just shipped us another replacement. Now THAT is custoemr service!

I have no reason to beieve that a product coming under FDA jurisdiction would be a problem if it met FDA requirements.

Personally, I feel that blowers are going to seperate from FDA involvement before too long; after all, FDA cannot control Quality Control on each product that is sold in any event.

dsm wrote:When everyone calms down a bit - consider this as a reality alert.

Resmed (& Respironics) biggest problem is the fact they get their biggest sales by selling into the FDA controlled & regulated USA market which in turn is dominated by large health insurance companies and DME chains.

Ranting & railing against individual vendors (a practice that has been repeated here at cpaptalk like clockwork since at least 2005/6) does not fix the fact of who calls the shots in this market.

Cheers

DSM

(hmmm so who gets to shoot the messenger this time )

I'll take a shot.

"Ranting & railing against individual vendors (a practice that has been repeated here at cpaptalk like clockwork since at least 2005/6) does not fix the fact of who calls the shots in this market."
You don't really believe this? Really,, do ya? Really??

So if ya do, how much impact will your ranting and railing above have on the Resmed market? Really?

If you do, who and what makes you the authority on international internet sales? Really?

Do you really think the Resmed, in their infinite wisdom, is willing to give up the FDA controlled US market? Really??

torontoCPAPguy wrote:The internet is a very VERY powerful tool.

In fact the Internet is a very VARIABLE tool, and by no means all powerful.

Cheers,

Bill

billbolton wrote:

torontoCPAPguy wrote:The internet is a very VERY powerful tool.

In fact the Internet is a very VARIABLE tool, and by no means all powerful.

Cheers,

Bill

Another country heard from? Expert heard from? Really!! Really!!

Who wants to be on the internet? Really??

Yeah, and internet apnea support group members are a VAST MINORITY of xPAP end-users.

torontoCPAPguy wrote:

dsm wrote:When everyone calms down a bit - consider this as a reality alert.

Resmed (& Respironics) biggest problem is the fact they get their biggest sales by selling into the FDA controlled & regulated USA market which in turn is dominated by large health insurance companies and DME chains.

Ranting & railing against individual vendors (a practice that has been repeated here at cpaptalk like clockwork since at least 2005/6) does not fix the fact of who calls the shots in this market.

Cheers

DSM

(hmmm so who gets to shoot the messenger this time )

Having never dealt with the FDA I cannot comment but one wonders how difficult it would be to produce some samples for FDA testing in order to get FDA approval; failing which I wonder about goods that we bring in from Hong Kong these days without FDA approval that seem to hit the market with great regularity. In fact, up here near Toronto, I seem to be receiving my goodies from Hong Kong FASTER than I do from stateside. We often have stateside goods shipped to Buffalo and then just head down and pick it up since it's only a short drive. We recently ordered some laptop batteries for our HP's tha were $30 each as opposed to $180 from HP and had higher capacity. I could not believe it so I order one. It arrived some 3 days later from Hong Kong and was great. So we ordered five more. They all work better than the HP procut and were a fraction of the cost. Had trouble with one of them and the supplier didn't even want it back... just shipped us another replacement. Now THAT is custoemr service!

I have no reason to beieve that a product coming under FDA jurisdiction would be a problem if it met FDA requirements.

Personally, I feel that blowers are going to seperate from FDA involvement before too long; after all, FDA cannot control Quality Control on each product that is sold in any event.

TorontoCpapGuy,
The heart of the FDA issue is that the only market in the world (that I am aware of) that requires CPAP sales to be done on the requirement of a doctors prescription is the US market.

Who set that policy ? - was it the medical profession ? (was it doctors groups or medical equipment suppliers ?)

I can't see it changing any time soon & if anyone really needed something ti rail against it surely has to be that prescription policy. It appears to be that matter that then allows the dominance of DME & healthcare insurance companies.

DSM

This international marketing reminded me of something...

I doubt it will get much press here between these flames. US the ONLY country? That IS news to me - for me, that is a different dream

In fact, Gumby has a dream that one day the manufacturer will provide a USB Flash Drive with the software, on the drive, required to read the machine data included with the machine. I have a Dream...

Edit: Another dream is that Fischer Paykel would use the technology they already have to interface a heated hose with their HC-150 Heated Humidifier. They have the pieces, they own the pieces, they just need to put them together. FP also needs to get off their duff with the non-data nmachines. They are late to the party but could make a difference IF they started to include software with their machines AND used a USB port. Dream2 Dream

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48687&p=446240&hilit=dream#p446240

GumbyCT wrote:This international marketing reminded me of something...

I doubt it will get much press here between these flames. US the ONLY country? That IS news to me - for me, that is a different dream

In fact, Gumby has a dream that one day the manufacturer will provide a USB Flash Drive with the software, on the drive, required to read the machine data included with the machine. I have a Dream...

Edit: Another dream is that Fischer Paykel would use the technology they already have to interface a heated hose with their HC-150 Heated Humidifier. They have the pieces, they own the pieces, they just need to put them together. FP also needs to get off their duff with the non-data nmachines. They are late to the party but could make a difference IF they started to include software with their machines AND used a USB port. Dream2 Dream

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48687&p=446240&hilit=dream#p446240

Gumby

But F&P did integrate the heated hose with their humidifier (but did it on the cpaps) - if they had done it via the HC150, they would have been handing over a great market benefit to all competitors. Companies do need to have some differentiators in order to carve a niche for themselves. Give that benefit away & watch your market share go away & that business fold.

Cheers

DSM

torontoCPAPguy wrote: By the way, suffice it to say that there were several firms sitting on high horses that were put down and out in short order by doing exactly what ResMed is suggesting. I am absolutely flabbergasted that state and federal government in the USA do not have significant teeth as I can recall a number of cases of company executives being heavily fined and jailed for restraint of trade, restraint of interstate trade, and a variety of laws preventing 'price-fixing'. What ever happened to the 'free enterprise' system? (Sorry, that is venting and is non-productive).

The law in the U.S., for better or worse, is established that a manufacturer can enforce a pricing policy as long as it is not based on an agreement among its customers. The usual slang is that a "vertical" price constraint legal, but a "horizontal" one isn't. A bunch of DMEs couldn't agree among themselves to fix a price, or agree to ask ResMed to do it and make it look like it was ResMed's idea. But as long as ResMed sets the policy unilaterally, it's probably legal.

The below was sent to Resmed today:


Just a quick note to tell you that once your restrictive sales policy with respect to online sales/pricing comes into effect, I will no longer purchase Resmed products under any circumstances. Nor will I recommend them to anyone as I have been. In fact, I will explain your policy to people and urge them to buy other brands of masks.

Signed,

By myself