Have you been treated for depression?

nobody wrote:

BlackSpinner wrote:There is plenty of studies available done neurobiologists that this is actually what happens.

Again, no. No one has discovered what a normal balance of brain chemicals is supposed to be so there is no way to determine what is abnormal. I'm sure that there are chemical changes in the brain when people experience emotions. Again, that's a normal human experience and does not make it a disease or disorder.

Post the links to peer reviewed scientific studies that prove that.

There are changes in chemicals in brain if you run around the block. There are changes if you have an orgasm. Changes do not depression make.

nobody wrote:

DreamOn wrote: That's caused by imbalances between neurochemicals in the brain and is a biological disorder.

No. It's what the pharmaceutical industry wants you to believe and boy have they made a killing marketing that idea.

You and I seem to disagree regarding the cause of true major depression. That's fine. I respect that you have a right to your opinion.

Do I think that too many people are using pharmaceutical bandaids to deal with emotional problems (and physical conditions) that can be effectively worked through or treated in other ways? Absolutely, yes!!! This may be an unpopular stance here, but I also believe that too many people use medications for sleep disorders. But I do think medications are necessary for some people in order to achieve emotional balance.

BlackSpinner wrote:Post the links to peer reviewed scientific studies that prove that.

Actually the onus of proof is on you. Where has it been shown that we know what a normal brain chemistry is supposed to be? AFAIK, it is unknown. If you don't know what the normal is please explain how you can know what abnormal is!?

packitin wrote:Depression is a very complicated issue. Its a matter of DEGREE. Everyone has it. (very slightly to full blown).

I disagree that everyone has it, if you mean that everyone has some degree of clinical depression. I don't think that is true. Everyone has disappointments in life that cause them to temporarily feel bad, such as a death or some other significant loss and it would not be mentally normal to not feel bad when something truly bad happens. However, I don't recall ever feeling bad without a good, clear and obvious reason to feel that way. My default mental state is consistently positive when life conditions are normal or better than normal and tends to be generally positive even during bad times unless something of major life-changing significance occurs. Most people I associate with seem to have similar default mental states. Of course, some of them could have feelings of depression that I am not aware of, but if so, it is amazing that they could feel that way while seeming so consistently positive and excited about life.

nobody wrote:

BlackSpinner wrote:Post the links to peer reviewed scientific studies that prove that.

Actually the onus of proof is on you. Where has it been shown that we know what a normal brain chemistry is supposed to be? AFAIK, it is unknown. If you don't know what the normal is please explain how you can know what abnormal is!?

No you made the claim first - defend your position.

BlackSpinner wrote:

nobody wrote:

BlackSpinner wrote:Post the links to peer reviewed scientific studies that prove that.

Actually the onus of proof is on you. Where has it been shown that we know what a normal brain chemistry is supposed to be? AFAIK, it is unknown. If you don't know what the normal is please explain how you can know what abnormal is!?

No you made the claim first - defend your position.

I just did with simple logic. I guess I can assume that you don't know the answers to the questions posed. You don't know what normal brain chemistry is supposed to be and so you can't possibly know what abnormal brain chemistry looks like and so the claim that depression is a chemical imbalance is nonsense. But don't worry, no one else knows the answers to these questions either despite the ridiculous claims about what depression is (claims made mainly by people who are making a lot of money on such claims)

BlackSpinner wrote:There is plenty of studies available done neurobiologists that this is actually what happens.
Commercials are commercials and anyone who self diagnosis by commercials is an idiot to begin with.

Go and read her books:http://www.mystrokeofinsight.com/

I'm curious what you think her books are going to tell about depression? Her site seems to be about strokes. Also, how do you think depression is diagnosed? It is done by a checklist of feelings and behaviors that are voted on every few years and put in a great book of checklists for various mental disorders. There is no objective test like a blood test so it is not exacting and is wide open to interpretation. I'm not sure how you get from checklists voted into a book by a room full of people playing at being doctors to actual chemical imbalances in the brain chemistry. It just doesn't follow.

I think it very telling that NOT sleeping improves mood (and "brain chemistry"?) of some who are "depressed." Could it be that it is the ones who normally have desaturations and arousals all night when they DO sleep? Hmm.

"Partial or total overnight sleep deprivation produces immediate mood improvement in about 50% of patients with depression, but not in healthy controls. Our objectives were to compare the neurochemical changes that accompanied partial overnight sleep deprivation in healthy and depressed participants, and to compare baseline neurochemical profiles and overnight neurochemical changes between those depressed participants who did and did not respond to sleep loss with mood improvement."--J Psychiatry Neurosci. 2009 September; 34(5): 352–360.© 2009 Canadian Medical Association; "Effects of overnight sleep restriction on brain chemistry and mood in women with unipolar depression and healthy controls." Denise Bernier, PhD, Robert Bartha, PhD, Sivakumaran Devarajan, MD, Frank P. MacMaster, PhD, Matthias H. Schmidt, MD, and Benjamin Rusak, PhD.--http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2732741/

nobody wrote: I just did with simple logic. I guess I can assume that you don't know the answers to the questions posed. You don't know what normal brain chemistry is supposed to be and so you can't possibly know what abnormal brain chemistry looks like and so the claim that depression is a chemical imbalance is nonsense. But don't worry, no one else knows the answers to these questions either despite the ridiculous claims about what depression is (claims made mainly by people who are making a lot of money on such claims)

That is not logic. It is not even scientific method.
That is the same as " dogs have 4 legs, the table has 4 legs, therefore the table is a dog and tables bark".
We don't know what gravity exactly is but if you jump of a cliff most people can tell you what will happen.

Simply when members of my family who threatened suicide were put on anti depressants they were able to live a "normal" life like going to work or school rather then killing them selves.
I on the other hand was only depressed by a) - a divorce and recovered on my own while working out and b) lack of sleep.
For me life is joy with the occasional hiccup.

nobody wrote: I'm curious what you think her books are going to tell about depression? Her site seems to be about strokes. Also, how do you think depression is diagnosed? It is done by a checklist of feelings and behaviors that are voted on every few years and put in a great book of checklists for various mental disorders. There is no objective test like a blood test so it is not exacting and is wide open to interpretation. I'm not sure how you get from checklists voted into a book by a room full of people playing at being doctors to actual chemical imbalances in the brain chemistry. It just doesn't follow.

Because it is about the function of the brain, something you seem to be very weak on.

There isn't a blood test for many things and they are still real and treated with medications. Do you mean that before blood tests existed that people didn't have thyroid problems or diabetes? Where do you get of "playing doctor" ?

BlackSpinner wrote:Simply when members of my family who threatened suicide were put on anti depressants they were able to live a "normal" life like going to work or school rather then killing them selves.

This does not prove that depression is a faulty brain chemistry. Placebo effect is well researched and proven.

BlackSpinner wrote:There isn't a blood test for many things and they are still real and treated with medications.

That does not prove that depression is faulty brain chemicals.

Do you mean that before blood tests existed that people didn't have thyroid problems or diabetes?

I did not say that people don't experience depression. Quite the opposite, scroll up and re-read if you missed it. Most people experience depression at some time or other and I'm sure it is a matter of degree, which also does not prove that it is faulty brain chemicals.

nobody wrote: This does not prove that depression is a faulty brain chemistry. Placebo effect is well researched and proven.

Placebo does work that well except for pain relief. It also doesn't disprove the brain chemistry theory. For all you know the placebo effect is brain chemistry.

jnk wrote:I think it very telling that NOT sleeping improves mood (and "brain chemistry"?) of some who are "depressed." Could it be that it is the ones who normally have desaturations and arousals all night when they DO sleep? Hmm.

That's interesting, Jeff.

BlackSpinner wrote:

nobody wrote: This does not prove that depression is a faulty brain chemistry. Placebo effect is well researched and proven.

Placebo does work that well except for pain relief. It also doesn't disprove the brain chemistry theory. For all you know the placebo effect is brain chemistry.

One reason for the poll is to see how many people with OSA were possibly misdiagnosed with depression. It is not logical to assume if someone was treated for less than a year, they in fact, probably did not have depression? People with mild "depression" are not usually helped with antidepressants: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news ... an-placebo

However, chemicals in the brain of people diagnosed with manic depression do differ from "healthy" persons: http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/conten ... t/61/5/450
So yes, there is proof of chemical changes in the brain of some forms of depression.

Hopefully, further research will lead to one drug for manic depression rather than the "cocktail" taken by some patients.