Options for Changing DME's

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
jonquiljo
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Location: SF Bay area (Marin)

Re: Options for Changing DME's

Post by jonquiljo » Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:16 am

ozij wrote: I don't know the American health system, so forgive me if this is ridculous, but, is there any way for you to obtain good RT sevices, regardless of who supplied your equipment? Perhaps an RT your doc knows? A professional whose services you can pay for? Are you sure the woman mistreating you has the proper education to do what she is attempting to do?

Actually it is a very good question. We have such a corrupt and ridiculous health system here that short of lots of cash in your pocket and lots of contacts - you are really playing a poker game - sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Mostly you lose. The sleep medicine end of it is particularly corrupt as it is new, and anyone can invest in these corrupt companies (clinics or DME's) to make a bundle and go away as fast as you came into it.

Sorry, Madalot: Its that damn "fine print"" that will get you every time. I really wish there was an easy way for you to get rid of these people, but they make it so hard. The best of luck to you!

larry63
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:06 pm

Re: Options for Changing DME's

Post by larry63 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:41 am

jonquiljo wrote:
ozij wrote: I don't know the American health system, so forgive me if this is ridculous, but, is there any way for you to obtain good RT sevices, regardless of who supplied your equipment? Perhaps an RT your doc knows? A professional whose services you can pay for? Are you sure the woman mistreating you has the proper education to do what she is attempting to do?

Actually it is a very good question. We have such a corrupt and ridiculous health system here that short of lots of cash in your pocket and lots of contacts - you are really playing a poker game - sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Mostly you lose. The sleep medicine end of it is particularly corrupt as it is new, and anyone can invest in these corrupt companies (clinics or DME's) to make a bundle and go away as fast as you came into it.

Sorry, Madalot: Its that damn "fine print"" that will get you every time. I really wish there was an easy way for you to get rid of these people, but they make it so hard. The best of luck to you!
In the US you can legally do anything you regarding changing health care providers, as long as you have presciptionThe catch of course is that it may cost you money to do so. And, I wouldn't really say that the sleep medicine industry in the US is "corrupt". Curruption to me implies that there would be something illegal going on behind the scenes. I more think that it is the US insurance system that is corrupty the rules,\ even that might not be corrupt. In our system here, even if everyone is playing by the rules, we all get hosed so to speak.

If you google E0601 (or whatever the CPAP code is) together with PROFIT or CAPPED RENTAL, you will come across a number of sites geared towards practitioners and business owners. If you find a site that has you click yes to a non-disclosure agreement, then you've probrably found a live one. Go to the site, and check how many of the articles are about medicine, and how
many are about how to increase profits and how to play the "system".

But, Do I fault these on-line magazines and the companies themselves for this line of thinking?
No! Of course not! If I were employed by one of these companies, I would really _like_ that said company made as much profit as possible. If said company is charging to much for their services, then the free market will tend to equalize the rates and services. For example, I am in the process of switching DMEs.

In a free market world, DME "a" will have to improve their services if they want to keep more customers, and perhaps charge a lower price. But that can't happen if insurance companies have a set price that they will pay to _any_ company to provide an xPAP pump.
So the problem I have is that what's the motivation for any CPAP DME to provide better service if they all get the same reimbursement from the health insurance company.


What is screwing things up in the US is our health insurance system. Our president has now put in to law a more socialist system, but has not addressed the
basic problem of why health care is so expensive in the US - which translates of course to our insurance being so expensive.

In the US, if some medical doctor makes a perhaps fatal mistake, they can be on the receiving end of a law-suit. Therefore they have to pay enormous insurance premiums to protect themselves from such events.

This is why, for example, a cat I know was able to have actual BRAIN SURGERY for less then $1000. Now boys and girls, how much do you think you would pay
to have brain surgery (well, of course technically, your health insurance company is paying for it, but really, we are all paying for your surgery).

I'll concede that if a vet screws up his surgery, then you _maybe_ don't have much legal recourse. Perhaps you should have some. I'm just saying that I think
that it's the legal system in the US that makes health care so incredibally over priced, and not the practices of the DME.s

Naturally the DME's are going to bill whatever they can to the insurance companies.

People, we really (in the US) need to limit the dollar amount a patient can sue for. This is the reason why buying a a CPAP pump through a DME is
so much more expensive than just ordering through cpap.com.


Vote accordingly, US people.
-- Speep study---
AHI = 56.4, RDI = 56.4
breakdown: 5.9 apnea, 0.2 central, 50.6 hyponpea, avg duration 20 sec.
AHI back=77.7, side=0.8 prone = 58.2
O2 desat min 83%, 40.3 min or desat < less then 91%

larry63
Posts: 138
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Re: Options for Changing DME's

Post by larry63 » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:38 pm

Madalot wrote:For those that have followed my threads, it's pretty obvious that I've got some serious issues with my DME. Here's what I'd like to ask some input on --

Let's say I make up my mind I'm done with these people and want to change. Obviously, I need to select a new DME and get my doctor to fax them the order for everything I need. But here's my question:

My current DME has been working with me since November. I had a cpap machine for a month, then switched to a bipap that I had until last week. I've got an oxygen concentrator, not to mention them letting me try every full faced mask they had, plus they ordered a few others for me to try. While I find them sometimes incompetent, they HAVE done a tremendous amount of work for me.

I have paid them NOTHING thus far for any of their services or equipment. There HAVE been bills to my insurance and I've seen what my co-pays would have been, but thus far, they haven't billed me squat.

What happens if I fire them and move on to another company? Do I simply return the equipment and they bill me for what they've done thus far? Anyone ever had to deal with this?
First of all, I think you are in the US. If not I aplogize because the following might not apply:

Ok, this the maybe the first time that I can actually help someone on this forum, rather than asking questions.

The problem is of course, that every insurance company is different, so I can only tell you what my own experience was.
I'm not on Medicare, but rather on an HMO through my employer, which pays 100%.

With my HMO I can go online and see exactly what the insurance was billing the old DME. Basically, I sent back only the CPAP pump, because that was a rental.
The rest (tubing, mask, headgear), I didn't bother to send back because the in because my insurance paid for those outright.

I WAS able to switch three months into the capped rental for the CPAP machine. It took a lot of time on the phone, mostly to my HMO, but in the end I
was able to do it, and luckily the company switched to, took the time and effort to work with me. Mostly the reason it was not so straight-forward is
that my insurance was still renting from the old company.

In my case, the things I needed: A _new_ prescription from the referring doc, the dx and titration reports, and a switch of insurance authorization from the old company to the new one. In my case, my insurance took an overnight tracking number as proof and _immediately_ switched the authorization to the new DME.

You can PM me for details, and I don't know how your insurance works. But the way it worked with me is this: They basically started the "capped rental" over again from square one, including the mask. In other words, everything starts a-new as if I had never had CPAP before.

it DID take a lot of time on the phone to figure out how things would work out - It's a bit more complicated when your insurance is renting the CPAP from your current company. It's easier I hear if you already own the CPAP (in other words if the capped rental is paid for).

I suppose for liability reasons, both my current and new suplliers told me to keep the current CPAP until I get the new one. However I got lucky - my insurance accepted an overnight tracking number - they needed that to switch the insurance authorization from the old DME to the new one, and actually I was able to mail the CPAP back, and then pick up a new cpap and mask from the new company the same day!!

So pretty much, yes, that's the way it worked in my case - I sent the original DME's cap overnight, coordinated everything with the insurance company and with the new DME, and luckilly got an appointment with the new DME the same day.

And I tell you, it was VERY MUCH worth the trouble.

PM me if you need more details, or have any questions.
-- Speep study---
AHI = 56.4, RDI = 56.4
breakdown: 5.9 apnea, 0.2 central, 50.6 hyponpea, avg duration 20 sec.
AHI back=77.7, side=0.8 prone = 58.2
O2 desat min 83%, 40.3 min or desat < less then 91%

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Madalot
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Re: Options for Changing DME's

Post by Madalot » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:09 pm

Larry -- I appreciate all the time and effort you put into that last post. If you read the post I made more recently in this thread, you'll see that my situation has changed significantly and I no longer use cpap/bipap and have moved to a ventilator, which is a completely different situation and is handled differently -- unfortunately.

I made the decision to stick with the current DME because of the change to a ventilator.

But I really do appreciate your trying to help me out of the situation about which I originally posted.

_________________
Mask: FlexiFit HC431 Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: HC150 Heated Humidifier With Hose, 2 Chambers and Stand
Additional Comments: Trilogy EVO. S/T AVAPS, IPAP 18-23, EPAP 10, BPM 7

larry63
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Re: Options for Changing DME's

Post by larry63 » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:26 pm

Madalot wrote:Larry -- I appreciate all the time and effort you put into that last post. If you read the post I made more recently in this thread, you'll see that my situation has changed significantly and I no longer use cpap/bipap and have moved to a ventilator, which is a completely different situation and is handled differently -- unfortunately.

I made the decision to stick with the current DME because of the change to a ventilator.

But I really do appreciate your trying to help me out of the situation about which I originally posted.
Ah, and I have been known to accuse people myself of not actually reading a post before replying!
Sorry, and good luck.

I guess maybe my reply was more of a bump for CPAP people who wish to change DME's.
-- Speep study---
AHI = 56.4, RDI = 56.4
breakdown: 5.9 apnea, 0.2 central, 50.6 hyponpea, avg duration 20 sec.
AHI back=77.7, side=0.8 prone = 58.2
O2 desat min 83%, 40.3 min or desat < less then 91%

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Madalot
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Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:47 am

Re: Options for Changing DME's

Post by Madalot » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:35 pm

larry63 wrote:
Madalot wrote:Larry -- I appreciate all the time and effort you put into that last post. If you read the post I made more recently in this thread, you'll see that my situation has changed significantly and I no longer use cpap/bipap and have moved to a ventilator, which is a completely different situation and is handled differently -- unfortunately.

I made the decision to stick with the current DME because of the change to a ventilator.

But I really do appreciate your trying to help me out of the situation about which I originally posted.
Ah, and I have been known to accuse people myself of not actually reading a post before replying!
Sorry, and good luck.

I guess maybe my reply was more of a bump for CPAP people who wish to change DME's.
No worries! I didn't want you to think that I was ignoring your post, especially when you put a lot of effort into it.

_________________
Mask: FlexiFit HC431 Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: HC150 Heated Humidifier With Hose, 2 Chambers and Stand
Additional Comments: Trilogy EVO. S/T AVAPS, IPAP 18-23, EPAP 10, BPM 7

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chunkyfrog
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Re: Options for Changing DME's

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:52 pm

I am sure that Larry's efforts will help others; as this is (unfortunately) not an uncommon situation.
Kudos, Larry!

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