CPAP setting change legality

Not that it matters to how I will conduct my CPAP business, but is changing your CPAP settings REALLY illegal? That what my DME supplier says (who is otherwise a great supplier). Doesn't buying software and an interface imply you will be tweaking your settings? Again, not that it matters to me.

Regards,
Al

Your DME sounds as if they are over zealous. How could changing your pressure be illegal when an APAP does it for you automatically every night ? Also remind him that your body changes daily under certain conditions (atmospheric pressure, altitude, pollution, sleeping conditions, weight) and to say that you can only get good therapy from ONE pressure setting is being nieve. I have found that my pressure varies 1-2 units, especially when I travel. When I am at home and at the same altitude as where I was titrated, it is closer but still changes a little .5.

DMEs charging over $2000 for a piece of equipment that you can purchase online for $500 should be illegal.

but is changing your CPAP settings REALLY illegal?

I guess I should be arrested, if it's illegal. A while back, when I needed a replacement machine from DME (mine was having a problem), they delivered the CPAP machine set at the wrong pressure...8 instead of 10. With the help of the kind people on this forum, they told me how to reset it to the correct setting of 10, which my doctor prescribed. Saved me from driving 30 miles to have them set the correct pressure. Does that come under malpractice from DME?

The only illegal thing is a DME changing your pressure without a doctor's script or say-so. YOU changing your pressure is no more illegal than eating lollipops.

a recent thread related to this

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47886&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

akeegan wrote:Not that it matters to how I will conduct my CPAP business, but is changing your CPAP settings REALLY illegal? That what my DME supplier says (who is otherwise a great supplier). Doesn't buying software and an interface imply you will be tweaking your settings? Again, not that it matters to me.

Regards,
Al

It's only "illegal" for DMEs to change pressure settings on someone's machine WITHOUT an order from a doctor. (I think I've heard that they might be able to change it by one or two centimeters without an order.)
Unfortunately, they translate that to mean that it's also "illegal" for the user to change their own settings. Ain't true!
If that were the case, every person with diabetes who modifies their insulin intake (or other medications) according to what they eat would be put in the same "illegal" status.

It's a scare tactic that they use to exert their control. As far as I'm concerned, the software should made freely available to the users and EVERY XPAP machine should be data-capable. Users who monitor their own therapy are far more compliant then those who are kept in the dark by the control freaks.


Den

OOPPSS, I forgot to take my medicine today, I am going to jail, the prescription says take one pill every day.

Of course is not illegal to change setups.

It is just a way to have you blind folded, paying money to them, for everything. That's just me.

A couple of older (but still interesting) topics about the "legality" thing...

cpap pressure setting - topic started by guest "jlc"
viewtopic.php?t=3366

Is it Illegal to Change Settings on One's CPAP Machine? - topic started by sleepguide
viewtopic.php?p=346547#p346547

If it were illegal to change our pressure they would have build a new prison that would hold all of us, I can see it now.................

Seriuosly, I sometimes wonder how stupid some DME's think we are or maybe they really believe what they are telling us.

rosie

el_zorro wrote:
DMEs charging over $2000 for a piece of equipment that you can purchase online for $500 should be illegal.

I challenged my DME on that, and was told that the price they charge was defined in their contract with Blue Cross/Blue Shield (implying that they BC/BS had put that forward, not the DMEs), and they could do nothing about it. HUH?!!?!! I will be following up on that one!

DMEs charging over $2000 for a piece of equipment that you can purchase online for $500 should be illegal.

I am in the process of getting a new CPAP, and the DME told me ahead of time that I can get it online for a lot less. However they also talked about the fact that working with the DME means that I have them working with me to fix issues instead of handling it myself. I have the services of the RT available for that extra $700 -$800.

As a computer systems consultant I understand the value of my time to someone else, so I understand paying for it. I also understand that I am the one paying for it so I will be watching my bottom line and paying for the services I choose instead of taking everything I am offered.

akeegan wrote:is changing your CPAP settings REALLY illegal?

On your own machine for your own use, no it is not illegal. It might be illegal (or at least against policy) for your DME to change it without a prescription, but it's not illegal for you to do it yourself.

aroche wrote:

DMEs charging over $2000 for a piece of equipment that you can purchase online for $500 should be illegal.

I am in the process of getting a new CPAP, and the DME told me ahead of time that I can get it online for a lot less. However they also talked about the fact that working with the DME means that I have them working with me to fix issues instead of handling it myself. I have the services of the RT available for that extra $700 -$800.

As a computer systems consultant I understand the value of my time to someone else, so I understand paying for it. I also understand that I am the one paying for it so I will be watching my bottom line and paying for the services I choose instead of taking everything I am offered.

Im not saying that all DMEs are dishonest or just in it for the money but I think that they charge way too much for their services and do not do a good job of educating people on the full capabilities of their machine. For this markup $1500, they should provide a one day training class on the CPAP machine and how to use it.

As far as a service contract or warranty, if we all do the math, we realize that we could buy 2-3 machines online before we would equal the cost of that the DME charges. So if we have an break/fix issue, just throw one of them in the garbage and use one of the spares. It doesnt get an easier than that. Most of these machines last more than 2 years which is the warranty period anyway so after 2 years owning a spare is a good idea.

Im upset recently because my DME uses deceptive billing practices with the so-called rent-to-own scheme. I had fully paid my deductable in 2009, and offered to pay cash for my co-insurance 10% ($94) when I picked up the machine in December. Now I find out that the rental charge $200 per month ($66 chargeable) will cause me to pay $400 for the machine after all because I have a new deductable for 2010. For a spare/travel machine I got a brand new ResMed Autoset II for $200 including mask on CPAPauction .I am tempted to just return the first machine and tell them to just keep it because of their dishonest business practices. The total billed for the machine is over $3000 with $1500 allowed by the insurance company.

QUOTE....DMEs charging over $2000 for a piece of equipment that you can purchase online for $500 should be illegal

Believe me I am not sticking up for DME's,I know many of them are bad, but what some people don't realize is that insurance companies do not pay them what they charge. For example...back when I was on a rent to own program, my DME was charging over $200 month rental...Medicare paid them $60. They charged over $225 for a mask for which they were paid $110. When someone says that a DME charges $2000 for a piece of equipment that can be purchased for $500 on line...this is an exaggeration...the DME is problibly paid under $1000 and they 'should' provide service for that price. Another example is.... A DME should allow you to return a mask or machine within 30 days for a replacement if you are not comfortable with it. You can't do that with an on line provider without paying for return insurance.

Clearly it is illegal to buy/use a CPAP without a prescription.

So the question REALLY is:
Is it illegal to use a prescribed treatment in a manner inconsistent with the prescription?

There is no Federal law addressing that. Several states have statutes which are more muddy than clear. Many sources lump "obtaining without a prescription" and "using in a manner inconsistent" together as prescription drug abuse. But the actual laws only address the former. I've found no case law to set a precedent. Believe it or not, California law comes the closest:

http://www.sleepguide.com/profiles/blogs/is-changing-cpap-settings-on wrote: Conclusion
Although the law on CPAP is clear that it's illegal to sell or distribute it without a prescription, it's less clear whether patients can modify their CPAP settings on their own. The California statute defines a CPAP as a "Dangerous Device" that is unfit for self-use. What that means is an open question.