Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Muse-Inc · Post by **Muse-Inc** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:18 pm

MoneyGal wrote:...Pretend I'm a Martian...

Think of a protein as anything that walked, hopped, jumped, wriggled, or swam in its 'past' life (in its present 'life' it's your food source). A carb is anything that came from a plant, except nuts or seeds which are mostly fat; all veggies and fruits are carbs. Fats are also embedded in protein foods. There are some combo foods, but this hugely simified explanation might suffice in the beginning.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:23 pm

A peer reviewed journal:
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 86, No. 2, 276-284, August 2007
© 2007 American Society for Nutrition

Low-carbohydrate nutrition and metabolism1,2,3
Eric C Westman, Richard D Feinman, John C Mavropoulos, Mary C Vernon, Jeff S Volek, James A Wortman, William S Yancy and Stephen D Phinney

Anothee peer reviewed journal
The New England Journal of Medicine Volume 359:229-241 July 17, 2008 Number 3
Weight Loss with a Low-Carbohydrate, Mediterranean, or Low-Fat Diet

Results The rate of adherence to a study diet was 95.4% at 1 year and 84.6% at 2 years. The Mediterranean-diet group consumed the largest amounts of dietary fiber and had the highest ratio of monounsaturated to saturated fat (P<0.05 for all comparisons among treatment groups). The low-carbohydrate group consumed the smallest amount of carbohydrates and the largest amounts of fat, protein, and cholesterol and had the highest percentage of participants with detectable urinary ketones (P<0.05 for all comparisons among treatment groups). The mean weight loss was 2.9 kg for the low-fat group, 4.4 kg for the Mediterranean-diet group, and 4.7 kg for the low-carbohydrate group (P<0.001 for the interaction between diet group and time); among the 272 participants who completed the intervention, the mean weight losses were 3.3 kg, 4.6 kg, and 5.5 kg, respectively. The relative reduction in the ratio of total cholesterol to high-density lipoprotein cholesterol was 20% in the low-carbohydrate group and 12% in the low-fat group (P=0.01). Among the 36 subjects with diabetes, changes in fasting plasma glucose and insulin levels were more favorable among those assigned to the Mediterranean diet than among those assigned to the low-fat diet (P<0.001 for the interaction among diabetes and Mediterranean diet and time with respect to fasting glucose levels).

Conclusions Mediterranean and low-carbohydrate diets may be effective alternatives to low-fat diets. The more favorable effects on lipids (with the low-carbohydrate diet) and on glycemic control (with the Mediterranean diet) suggest that personal preferences and metabolic considerations might inform individualized tailoring of dietary interventions. (ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT00160108

MoneyGal, you may find the supplementary appendix of the latter paper helpful http://content.nejm.org/cgi/data/359/3/229/DC1/1 it contains food pyramids for the different way of eating.

Sleepy Taz · Post by **Sleepy Taz** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:16 am

As a diabetic I am taught to count my carbs as a way to help control my blood sugar levels and as such have had a hard time keeping those numbers below 200. When I have been able to starve myself enough to bring it down between 120 and 140 it doesn’t last long because of my cravings. That is what many starches and bread products do to you as well as many sugar items like donuts and muffins. SnoresLikeWalrus says that vegetable and fruits are carbs and she is right except to say that most of them contain very few carbs and therefore help to control blood sugar levels. Eating fruits and vegetables along with small portions of protein and non salt spices keep you feeling full with less, and after just a little time eliminate the sugar and starch cravings. These foods also contain fewer calories and as such will help to reduce your weight. This is a lifestyle change, not a diet. People who diet go back to their former habits either when their weight loss goal has been reduced or they just give up. By creating a lifestyle change you are committing yourself to those foods for the rest of your life with an occasional planned “treat” only on special occasions. I do not miss my sweets, potatoes, or bread products as I am feeling better and losing weight without feeling hungry. MoneyGal, choose something that is comfortable for you and spend time researching the internet for food ideas and best ways to exercise. The exercise is important not so much to help you lose but to turn the fatty tissues into muscle. This will help you keep the weight off. Good luck and remember to move forward with a positive attitude and in the end you will persevere.

sagesteve · Post by **sagesteve** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:28 am

Moneygal, I can see that you like to research and learn. This is great! Here is one area you can "search" that I think will help you tremendously with your concerns: adiponectin levels. See where this leads you. For starters...Adiponectin is a protein hormone that modulates a number of metabolic processes, including glucose regulation and fatty acid catabolism. Adiponectin is exclusively secreted from adipose tissue into the bloodstream and is very abundant in plasma relative to many hormones. Levels of the hormone are inversely correlated with body fat percentage in adults.

MoneyGal · Post by **MoneyGal** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:48 am

OK! You guys! I think I can DO THIS! I'm serious. I went to the public library yesterday (I work across the street from a fantastic library) and got Low Carb, Quick and Easy and devoured it (heh) on the streetcar on the way home. I think I can eat like that! I sat down with my husband last night and talked about all of this. (He loves me completely the way that I am. I don't get any pressure from him to lose weight.)

I'm really grateful for all the input on this thread. I'm going to google adiponectin next...

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:55 am

SnoresLikeWalrus wrote:<snip> …

At age 60 he had a heart attack (after telling me for years how I was going to die from eating carrots and other veges) and now he has two stents. He still won't give up the (lean) meat. He is a scientist and says science proves he is right, but his heart attack speaks for itself as far as I am concerned. Being thin is no good if you are going to die from it. Frankly, I think he is nuts.

Maybe it is genetics? Did you know that OSA is genetically correlated? How come your brother is not treating his OSA? Did you know that untreated OSA has a higher coronary risk than smoking tobacco?

SnoresLikeWalrus wrote:<snip> …

I also just finished reading "Eating Animals" and it makes me glad I am vegan. Factory farming must be resisted! But that is another topic altogether.

Agreed. Factory farming must be resisted as should veganism! Do start a different thread for that topic please.

SnoresLikeWalrus wrote:No. He's not right.

Oh yes he is right.

SnoresLikeWalrus wrote:My mother wanted to lose weight. So my brother suggested she go on it. She mentioned it to me. (She is in her 80s.) I told her, not a good idea. I could not stop he (stubborn runs in the family). A few weeks later after she starts it I get the call. She is in the hospital. Other brother is there saying it is her digestion, maybe a blockage, probably cancer. Says she is probably going to die.

I ask, has anyone told the doctors about the diet? Hmmmm. No. I drive up to hospital. Tell them about her diet (high protein, low carb). Of course, she is dehydrated and blocked up to the top of her stomach. Hooked up with blood coming out of her stomach (the diet had irritated her existing ulcers and her diverticulitis). In horrible pain.

Once i said doc, she was trying a high protein diet, the doctor immediately stopped the exploration (tests, etc.) and took her to enema land. Told her "you have to have 25 to 30 gms of fiber each day, every day." She was severely constipated and dehydrated. She was dying--from a diet. After she was cleared out, she made sure to get her fiber and stopped with the high protein diet and she's still here, no cancer and she can do things like OH move her bowels. Not dehydrated any more. Of course, someone in his or her 80s is going to be more sensitive to dietary changes, but the fiber rule applies to everyone.

I have told both brothers that any further advice along those lines will be reported to the health "authorities."

And indeed my brother has stopped telling people to eat a high protein diet (it took our mother's near death to stop that). Had my brother not been eating high protein for 10 years, I doubt he would have had that heart attack. Since he is continuing on the diet, I expect he only has a few more years to live, but I can't seem to stop him.

I'll stick with my veges, fruits, and whole grains, thanks.

First of all, you need to learn the terminology.

Low carb does NOT necessarily equal high protein !

Low carb means just that ... low carb. It could be high protein or it could be high fat so long as carbs are kept “low”. There is nothing circular about it. There are different levels of low carb as well. The ideal low carb is one that replaces carb calories with fat calories and maintains an adequate amount of protein. Oy!!

Ultra-low carb is also known as ketogenic when carbs are limited to 50 grams per day or less. Very low carb is between 50 and 100 grams per day. Low carb is between 100 and 150 grams per day. Above 150 grams per day it is no longer considered low carb and based on a 2000 caloric day that is anything greater than 30% of calories from carbs. Which means that one can be on a low carb diet and still eat more than the USDA recommended servings of veggies … what the f --- … oy!!!

The average US diet consists of over 60% carbs … ergo, US population consists of over 60% overweight/obese people. OY!

SnoresLikeWalrus wrote:My brother has tried that approach. What studies? What peer-reviewed studies say one should scarf down large amounts of animal protein to be healthy?

Junk science. I say if people want to do that to themselves fine, but leave the rest of us out of it.

Again. You don’t even know what you are arguing about. It is quite possible to eat a normal and healthy amount of protein and still be on a low carb diet. And where are your peer-reviewed studies that veganism is healthy?

Here is a very current peer-reviewed article that shows …

… that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. …
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstrac ... 09.27725v1

SnoresLikeWalrus wrote:which high protein diet are you talking about? atkins? south beach?

atkins is now called "eco-Atkins" consisting of mostly vegetable protein. because they kept getting sued. i wonder why.

some people are very sensitive to changes in diet--slight changes in amount of fiber can do a lot of damage.

i have no gripe with moderation. i do have a gripe with those who try to impose the "regimen" of low carb or high protein or whatever you want to call it on others, so that they can feel better about being on it themselves.

i try not to make myself a vegan pest.

oy! Oy ! OY!! Your ignorance of low carb pretty much makes this debate a no brainer.

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:57 am

MoneyGal wrote:OK! You guys! I think I can DO THIS! I'm serious. I went to the public library yesterday (I work across the street from a fantastic library) and got Low Carb, Quick and Easy and devoured it (heh) on the streetcar on the way home. I think I can eat like that! I sat down with my husband last night and talked about all of this. (He loves me completely the way that I am. I don't get any pressure from him to lose weight.)

I'm really grateful for all the input on this thread. I'm going to google adiponectin next...

YES that is the book I found too! Isn't it great! it explains things really clearly and even tells you what you need to have in your kitchen to cook the meals. How to make a meal plan. In a couple of months I won't need it but right now it takes the stress out of cooking and shopping.

To tell the truth this is so much easier then the low fat semi vegetarian diet I was trying. It is much more "satisfying" and tasty.
I just have to deal with my philosophical issues with this diet....

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:09 am

BlackSpinner wrote:To tell the truth this is so much easier then the low fat semi vegetarian diet I was trying. It is much more "satisfying" and tasty.

BlackSpinner! Congratulations! Are you the on who wrote the following yesterday:

Can I tell you how tired I am of eggs and tuna after this week?

O.

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:16 am

ozij wrote:
BlackSpinner wrote:To tell the truth this is so much easier then the low fat semi vegetarian diet I was trying. It is much more "satisfying" and tasty.
BlackSpinner! Congratulations! Are you the on who wrote the following yesterday:

Can I tell you how tired I am of eggs and tuna after this week?

O.

Yes but I have the flu and nothing quite tastes good and then to be limited to eggs and tuna can be quite off putting especially when I ran out of decent cheese and salad and dressing. I have now some nice green rocks (avocados) ripening in the window sill and had some tourtiere yesterday ( removed the pie crust) with salad.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:21 am

Oy... sorry, I forgot about your flu -- I'm glad you've got a bigger variety of thinks now.
Avocados ripen well if put then in a newspaper, or paper bag with a banana or an apple...

O.

jnk · Post by **jnk** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:27 am

I'm hungry.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:50 am

I got myself a crock pot (actually a Hamilton Beach slow cooker) last week. First thing I cooked was a grass-fed rump roast ($5.69/lb) with all kinds of "low-carb" veggies, spices, herbs, and a small amount of "low-carb" onion soup for the liquid. Eight hours later, there was enough for about 3 days of lunch and dinner ... it was so good that I never got tired of it.

A couple of days ago they had grass-fed brisket on sale for $4.99. Cooked it the night before for 12 hours and the stuff just melts in your mouth. For lunch I'm eating a spinach, broccoli, and chinese cabagge salad with cherry tomatoes and chunks of brisket drenched in olive oil and red-wine vinegar. For dinner I will heat up a bowl of brisket meat and then top with guacamole and pico de gallo relish. For tomorrow, I'll finish the brisket with some bacon-fried red cabbage in tomato and green chile sauce. Thursday night, I will be slow cooking some pork ribs ($3.99/lb) ... yum.

The slow cooker has come in handy with the cold wet weather keeping my Weber Grill out of reach.

MoneyGal · Post by **MoneyGal** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:08 pm

for you, DreamStalker.

Just ate lunch: hard-boiled egg, turkey, blue cheese on lettuce and cucumbers with oil and vinegar dressing. We'll see how today goes - will I be hungry at 2 p.m.? BTW, I brought fish oil capsules in to work. Figure I could pop 2 of them if I am wanting to chew on something...they are a little like chewing gum.

Sleepy Taz · Post by **Sleepy Taz** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:25 pm

Remember MoneyGal that it is good to eat something every two hours to keep the metabolism working. I bring a Kiwi, an apple, a banana, and a plumb to eat before and after lunch. This has kept the hunger pains away and by the time I get to supper I can eat a 4-5 oz piece of pork w/broccoli and a little rice and feel stuffed. A couple hours after supper I smack on 15 peanuts that are rich in good fats like omega 3. Do not starve yourself as your body will resist. Keep up the good work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Muse-Inc · Post by **Muse-Inc** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:19 pm

MoneyGal wrote:lunch: hard-boiled egg, turkey, blue cheese on lettuce and cucumbers with oil and vinegar dressing...

Great low-carb lunch! Remember, it takes anywhere from a few days to 2 wks for the body to convert to producing the enzymes needed to burn fat vs burn sugar so during that initial time appetite & hunger are a little flaky as the body is changing over. Sugar (converted from carbs) is like jet fuel while fat is like gasoline...our body prefers gasoline but when hunger strikes, it screams feed me now now now and we look for jetfuel to quell those insistant demands. Eat often enough to prevent hunger; when hunger is triggered, that negative biochemical cascade has already been activated.

@DS: red cabbage sauteed with bacon then braised in tomato+green chili sauce sounds really yummy! Got everything but the sauce; got some tomato sauce and cubanelles tho, can always add red pepper to taste (the older I get, the less I like the fiery bite of hot peppers).

Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Re: Requesting BASIC diet/weightloss advice and support

Mask	Humidifier

Additional Comments: CPAP Pro No Mask,Full Quattro Mask, SleepWeaver cloth mask InvaCare Oxygenator 2.5L bleed, Control III, M Series