That's okay, Bill. We're used to that in this family. My two sons were 10-lb. babies. The nurses in the hopt. back then, when big babies weren't so commonplace, told me that the big ones grow slower than the little ones, so it all evens out. Yeah, right.
My oldest, who is now 22, graduated elementary school at 12 being 5'10" and is now 6'4". My younger one is just six feet or maybe a little less. My oldest was especially easy to pick out of all his class pictures from elementary school since the next closest to his height was usually up to his shoulders. And it wasn't until about high school that he bulked up because he finally stopped growing. So tall and thin. Now he's about 200 lbs. and 6'4". Finally looks like he eats.
My husband is the shortest of three brothers (and has three sisters, too) at six feet tall. His brothers are both 6'3" and 6'4", so I guess I know where they get it from.
Now we're waiting to see what happens with our daughter, who turns 13 in November, who is already 5' 6 1/2", but weighs all of 103 lbs. right now. She passed me by an inch already.
Sleep Debt
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Sleepless on LI
- Posts: 3997
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: Long Island, New York
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Colorado Jan
It has been my experience that the onset of puberty is a pretty important indicator of how much growth is left in kids.
My oldest hit puberty HARD at age 12--shaving already, full body hair, sideburns to beat Elvis...he topped out at 5'8". He's 20 now and hasn't grown since 8th grade. His dad is 6 foot, his uncles are all 6 foot, paternal grandpa is 6 foot and my dad was 6'2-4 depending on who you talk to (he died when I was a baby). But another factor besides early onset of puberty for him was that he took a lot of steroids in his elementary years for severe asthma--that can supposedly stunt growth.
My middle son had a more normal onset of puberty, where the whole process took a year or two...he's 6 foot tall and 170 pounds of muscle at age 17. Hasn't grown in a year or more, so he may be done or he may still have another half inch or so to go, who knows? He's considered big for a high schooler--not so much for height as for that muscle. All the coaches want him for their sports, lol.
Youngest boy is 14 now....his voice has deepened, but there is not much in the way of facial or body hair yet--he's 5'10 (weighing in at 120, lol) and still growing quite a bit. It will be interesting to see how tall he gets. Size 12 shoes...can your crystal ball give me any hints??? He's all legs and arms right now...
I was 5'6 in sixth grade.....and I'm 5'6" today. That's girls for ya.
Jan in Colo.
My oldest hit puberty HARD at age 12--shaving already, full body hair, sideburns to beat Elvis...he topped out at 5'8". He's 20 now and hasn't grown since 8th grade. His dad is 6 foot, his uncles are all 6 foot, paternal grandpa is 6 foot and my dad was 6'2-4 depending on who you talk to (he died when I was a baby). But another factor besides early onset of puberty for him was that he took a lot of steroids in his elementary years for severe asthma--that can supposedly stunt growth.
My middle son had a more normal onset of puberty, where the whole process took a year or two...he's 6 foot tall and 170 pounds of muscle at age 17. Hasn't grown in a year or more, so he may be done or he may still have another half inch or so to go, who knows? He's considered big for a high schooler--not so much for height as for that muscle. All the coaches want him for their sports, lol.
Youngest boy is 14 now....his voice has deepened, but there is not much in the way of facial or body hair yet--he's 5'10 (weighing in at 120, lol) and still growing quite a bit. It will be interesting to see how tall he gets. Size 12 shoes...can your crystal ball give me any hints??? He's all legs and arms right now...
I was 5'6 in sixth grade.....and I'm 5'6" today. That's girls for ya.
Jan in Colo.
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Colorado Jan
Oh, mentioning my sons...this is interesting. When they were little, we kept a pile of blankets and pillows in a corner of our bedroom. They weren't allowed to sleep in our bed, but if they were scared or having trouble sleeping or whatever, they knew to come in and make a pallet of blankets and sleep on our floor for the night.
So now that I'm diagnosed with sleep apnea, my 17 year old says...Mom? I think I knew you had that a long time ago and I probably should have said something, maybe you'd get treated faster. When I was little and sleeping in your room, I'd always lay there and try to match my breathing to yours and I never could. I'd try and try and try, but I never could hold my breath as long as you could when you were sleeping......
Out of the mouths of babes, huh?
Jan in Colo.
So now that I'm diagnosed with sleep apnea, my 17 year old says...Mom? I think I knew you had that a long time ago and I probably should have said something, maybe you'd get treated faster. When I was little and sleeping in your room, I'd always lay there and try to match my breathing to yours and I never could. I'd try and try and try, but I never could hold my breath as long as you could when you were sleeping......
Out of the mouths of babes, huh?
Jan in Colo.
Jan...this was an interesting story...So now that I'm diagnosed with sleep apnea, my 17 year old says...Mom? I think I knew you had that a long time ago and I probably should have said something, maybe you'd get treated faster. When I was little and sleeping in your room, I'd always lay there and try to match my breathing to yours and I never could. I'd try and try and try, but I never could hold my breath as long as you could when you were sleeping......
*** Linda ***
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Sleepless on LI
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- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: Long Island, New York
Jan,
Awww, we should listen to our children...they are smarter beyond their years.
I had the same problem with the older one's feet being a size 13 in high school and, at one point, we found a 14 that fit. For some strange reason since then, he takes a 13 most of the time (thank goodness, no special order shoes).
Awww, we should listen to our children...they are smarter beyond their years.
I had the same problem with the older one's feet being a size 13 in high school and, at one point, we found a 14 that fit. For some strange reason since then, he takes a 13 most of the time (thank goodness, no special order shoes).
L o R i
Sleep Debt
Hi sbr3500!
I guess there's 3 important points here (actually, there's about 20, but let's start out with 3):
(1) There are a number of components that go into making you "feel better" as you treat you OSA. Paying off the sleep debt is only one component of that.
(2) As was most effectively noted by ProfessorSleep, if you're not sleeping more than your base sleep requirement, the answer as to when you pay off your sleep debt is "never".
(3) It also depends on how big your debt is.
As noted in the Dement work, "The Promise of Sleep", there are number of ways to determine your basic sleep needs, and then you can do a running total of your sleep debt. But to skip ahead, there are several methods to estimate your sleep debt at the moment of your transition to CPAP and now. The easiest of these is to use the Epworth Sleepiness Scale. This method gives you a number that quantifies your level of sleepiness and estimates your sleep debt. You probably did this prior to your sleep studies, if you don't remember the number, call the Manager of the Sleep Laboratory and I'm sure he can find it for you. It looks like this:
Use the following scale to choose the most appropriate number for each situation:
0 = would never doze or sleep.
1 = slight chance of dozing or sleeping
2 = moderate chance of dozing or sleeping
3 = high chance of dozing or sleeping
Situation Chance of Dozing or Sleeping
Sitting and reading ____
Watching TV ____
Sitting inactive in a public place ____
Being a passenger in a motor vehicle for an hour or more ____
Lying down in the afternoon ____
Sitting and talking to someone ____
Sitting quietly after lunch (no alcohol) ____
Stopped for a few minutes in traffic while driving ____
Total score (add the scores up) ____
Dr. Dement equates the Epworth Score thus:
0-5 Slight or no sleep debt
6-10 Moderate sleep debt
11-20 Heavy sleep debt
21-25 Extreme sleep debt
The time needed to pay off the sleep debt depends on the size of the bill, whether it will be days or weeks (actually the sleep debt concept only goes out about two weeks, that's the extent of documented study. It probably levels out at some point for a number of reasons).
Anyway, get your score pre-test, that'll give you the size of the bill, then rate your Epworth Score now, and that should give you a rough idea on how many payments you have left.
deltadave
Reference (and yes, this is a 5-star book):
"THE PROMISE OF SLEEP", William C. Dement and Christopher Vaughan
Delacorte Press, 1999
_________________
CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP
I guess there's 3 important points here (actually, there's about 20, but let's start out with 3):
(1) There are a number of components that go into making you "feel better" as you treat you OSA. Paying off the sleep debt is only one component of that.
(2) As was most effectively noted by ProfessorSleep, if you're not sleeping more than your base sleep requirement, the answer as to when you pay off your sleep debt is "never".
(3) It also depends on how big your debt is.
As noted in the Dement work, "The Promise of Sleep", there are number of ways to determine your basic sleep needs, and then you can do a running total of your sleep debt. But to skip ahead, there are several methods to estimate your sleep debt at the moment of your transition to CPAP and now. The easiest of these is to use the Epworth Sleepiness Scale. This method gives you a number that quantifies your level of sleepiness and estimates your sleep debt. You probably did this prior to your sleep studies, if you don't remember the number, call the Manager of the Sleep Laboratory and I'm sure he can find it for you. It looks like this:
Use the following scale to choose the most appropriate number for each situation:
0 = would never doze or sleep.
1 = slight chance of dozing or sleeping
2 = moderate chance of dozing or sleeping
3 = high chance of dozing or sleeping
Situation Chance of Dozing or Sleeping
Sitting and reading ____
Watching TV ____
Sitting inactive in a public place ____
Being a passenger in a motor vehicle for an hour or more ____
Lying down in the afternoon ____
Sitting and talking to someone ____
Sitting quietly after lunch (no alcohol) ____
Stopped for a few minutes in traffic while driving ____
Total score (add the scores up) ____
Dr. Dement equates the Epworth Score thus:
0-5 Slight or no sleep debt
6-10 Moderate sleep debt
11-20 Heavy sleep debt
21-25 Extreme sleep debt
The time needed to pay off the sleep debt depends on the size of the bill, whether it will be days or weeks (actually the sleep debt concept only goes out about two weeks, that's the extent of documented study. It probably levels out at some point for a number of reasons).
Anyway, get your score pre-test, that'll give you the size of the bill, then rate your Epworth Score now, and that should give you a rough idea on how many payments you have left.
deltadave
Reference (and yes, this is a 5-star book):
"THE PROMISE OF SLEEP", William C. Dement and Christopher Vaughan
Delacorte Press, 1999
_________________
CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP
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Colorado Jan
I don't like that Epsworth Sleep Scale. I don't have a problem with dozing off except when I'm by myself and reading. I'm very good at staying awake...might have something to do with being female and having the very UNlovely trait of snoring loud enough to break the windows. I flew to Australia a couple of years ago and stayed awake 36 hours because I did not want to snore on the airplane or in the airport. I'm VERY good at staying awake.
BUT....I play tennis and am constantly being the butt of jokes because I've been hit by more tennis balls than any other person on the planet. I just flat don't see them coming. A couple of weeks ago I fell off the treadmill at 24-hour Fitness. Yep, I'm quite entertaining there as well. I almost lost my drivers license a couple of years ago because of an excess number of tickets and had to pay a couple of thousand bucks to a sleazy lawyer to get me out of trouble. OH, speaking of reading....at one point in my life I was a voracious reader, reading at least one entire book per day, sometimes two (thanks to a speed reading course many years ago). For five or more years now I haven't been able to finish but a very few books per YEAR. Can't stay awake or stay interested or remember the story line or the characters. Shoot the past year or so I haven't even been able to finish MAGAZINE articles. Talk about pathetic!
So when I took that test which supposedly measures my sleep apnea risk, I came in at very low risk. My answer was rarely, rarely do I dose off at odd times. But when I actually did the sleep study? My arousal rate was 77 times per hour and my AHI was 85. I'm awake....just brain dead.
So much for the test.
Jan in Colo.
BUT....I play tennis and am constantly being the butt of jokes because I've been hit by more tennis balls than any other person on the planet. I just flat don't see them coming. A couple of weeks ago I fell off the treadmill at 24-hour Fitness. Yep, I'm quite entertaining there as well. I almost lost my drivers license a couple of years ago because of an excess number of tickets and had to pay a couple of thousand bucks to a sleazy lawyer to get me out of trouble. OH, speaking of reading....at one point in my life I was a voracious reader, reading at least one entire book per day, sometimes two (thanks to a speed reading course many years ago). For five or more years now I haven't been able to finish but a very few books per YEAR. Can't stay awake or stay interested or remember the story line or the characters. Shoot the past year or so I haven't even been able to finish MAGAZINE articles. Talk about pathetic!
So when I took that test which supposedly measures my sleep apnea risk, I came in at very low risk. My answer was rarely, rarely do I dose off at odd times. But when I actually did the sleep study? My arousal rate was 77 times per hour and my AHI was 85. I'm awake....just brain dead.
So much for the test.
Jan in Colo.
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Colorado Jan
Oh, I forgot another possible sign that I had sleep apnea.
When my three boys were little and I was the typical soccer mom driving all over town every afternoon, the boys had a game of counting how many times Mom was given the finger as she drove them around putting 20,000 miles per year on her odometer...
My sweet little boys who all attended Catholic schools, lol.......
Jan in Colo.
When my three boys were little and I was the typical soccer mom driving all over town every afternoon, the boys had a game of counting how many times Mom was given the finger as she drove them around putting 20,000 miles per year on her odometer...
My sweet little boys who all attended Catholic schools, lol.......
Jan in Colo.
More on Sleep Debt
Hi Colorado Jan!
There's also a bunch of other ways to calculate this, but this is the easiest (and cheapest).
deltadave
_________________
CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): Arousal, CPAP, AHI
Are you on CPAP now, and compliant with your therapy? And is your Epworth Scale Test based on your performance using CPAP now?when I took that test which supposedly measures my sleep apnea risk, I came in at very low risk. My answer was rarely, rarely do I dose off at odd times. But when I actually did the sleep study? My arousal rate was 77 times per hour and my AHI was 85. I'm awake....
There's also a bunch of other ways to calculate this, but this is the easiest (and cheapest).
deltadave
_________________
CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): Arousal, CPAP, AHI
sleep debt
The subject of sleep debt is a highly subjective one. I have done considerable thinking on this and realize many of my postings are taken the wrong way, but I will start with the statement that there is no such thing.
By that, I mean that I doubt such is a clear clinical and measurable entity. It is more a way of looking at the general run down condition that results from lack of sleep or poor sleep habits.
This condition takes a long time to recover from and is likely, IMHO, just getting back to normal.
I do not think sleep is something that can be regained by sleeping more. I think returning to normal sleep habits will greatly improve the overall feeling good.
If it helps some to think of this in terms of sleep debt being repaid, so be it, but I do not think is is a valid clincial entity.
I could be wrong.
By that, I mean that I doubt such is a clear clinical and measurable entity. It is more a way of looking at the general run down condition that results from lack of sleep or poor sleep habits.
This condition takes a long time to recover from and is likely, IMHO, just getting back to normal.
I do not think sleep is something that can be regained by sleeping more. I think returning to normal sleep habits will greatly improve the overall feeling good.
If it helps some to think of this in terms of sleep debt being repaid, so be it, but I do not think is is a valid clincial entity.
I could be wrong.
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Jan in Colo.
- Posts: 128
- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:54 pm
- Location: Colorado
Hi Colorado Jan!
Quote:
when I took that test which supposedly measures my sleep apnea risk, I came in at very low risk. My answer was rarely, rarely do I dose off at odd times. But when I actually did the sleep study? My arousal rate was 77 times per hour and my AHI was 85. I'm awake....
Are you on CPAP now, and compliant with your therapy? And is your Epworth Scale Test based on your performance using CPAP now?
There's also a bunch of other ways to calculate this, but this is the easiest (and cheapest).
deltadave
_______________
I'm on CPAP now and very compliant....my Epworth Scle Test was based on my performance PRIOR to treatment. I just didn't fall asleep in public..period. Wouldn't let myself because of the embarassment of hte snoring. So it came in very low...the sleep study folks were expecting me to be in the very mild range of apnea. Whoops. Wrong. Severe, quite severe apnea. I just don't like that Epworth thing because there are so many other ways to measure the effects of sleep apnea. Drowsiness was a poor indicator in my case.
Jan in Colo.
Quote:
when I took that test which supposedly measures my sleep apnea risk, I came in at very low risk. My answer was rarely, rarely do I dose off at odd times. But when I actually did the sleep study? My arousal rate was 77 times per hour and my AHI was 85. I'm awake....
Are you on CPAP now, and compliant with your therapy? And is your Epworth Scale Test based on your performance using CPAP now?
There's also a bunch of other ways to calculate this, but this is the easiest (and cheapest).
deltadave
_______________
I'm on CPAP now and very compliant....my Epworth Scle Test was based on my performance PRIOR to treatment. I just didn't fall asleep in public..period. Wouldn't let myself because of the embarassment of hte snoring. So it came in very low...the sleep study folks were expecting me to be in the very mild range of apnea. Whoops. Wrong. Severe, quite severe apnea. I just don't like that Epworth thing because there are so many other ways to measure the effects of sleep apnea. Drowsiness was a poor indicator in my case.
Jan in Colo.
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Sleepless on LI
- Posts: 3997
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: Long Island, New York
Tomjax
Don't take this the wrong way. I'm sure you very highly educated and you express your views very well. However, I am having tremendous difficulty taking you seriously with that photo you put under your name!!!! Geez, how can anyone take something that looks like that seriously?
Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I can just be cruel sometimes, can't I?
Don't take this the wrong way. I'm sure you very highly educated and you express your views very well. However, I am having tremendous difficulty taking you seriously with that photo you put under your name!!!! Geez, how can anyone take something that looks like that seriously?
Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I can just be cruel sometimes, can't I?
L o R i
sleep debt
Sleepless, you need to realize that ugly is only skin deep and behind both those teeth exists a very sensitive and caring individual who has feelings that may be hurt by unkind and unwarranted remarks.
I told you I had dental work and a new hair stylist, but the aspersions are still cast my way..
But I have a thick skin and can weather such.
OK- maybe I will get another photo if rested gal will help me again.
just kiddin
I told you I had dental work and a new hair stylist, but the aspersions are still cast my way..
But I have a thick skin and can weather such.
OK- maybe I will get another photo if rested gal will help me again.
just kiddin
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Sleepless on LI
- Posts: 3997
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: Long Island, New York
Re: sleep debt
I let out a huge laugh on that one...and, Tomjax, yes, things have been going right over my head lately, but you didn't have to rub it in ("only kidding" at the bottom of the post). I kind of figured you were fooling around with that one. I know I'm probably THE most gullible person on this site. Can we just call me trusting instead? Makes me feel like less of a fool at those times.tomjax wrote:and behind both those teeth...
If you have a photo you need help with, you can also send it my way. I will be happy to fix it to size for the site. But God help you if you send me another one of those...those...well, you know what I'm thinking. A REAL one this time, okay???
L o R i