POLL: Technical Discussions

Not to get too sociological about it, but to my way of thinking, there are really only two choices when it comes to discussing technical matters on any "lightly moderated" message board: Either (1) resign ourselves to the "reliability" here never rising above the reliability of any other open, public, informal discussion (even though it is on a medical subject) or (2) have some arguments and hurt feelings from time to time, whenever necessary, in the interests of increasing "reliability," while still doing our best to maintain forum etiquette as each one sees it. That is the price we pay for not building an official podium and hiring our own naked king to do the editing and decide on the official folkways. And for the most part, what goes on here sure seems to work. As long as everyone learns and has a little fun along the way.

Or we can designate every Friday "Flame Day"! YEAH!!!!

jeff

jnk wrote:Not to get too sociological about it, but to my way of thinking, there are really only two choices when it comes to discussing technical matters on any "lightly moderated" message board: Either (1) resign ourselves to the "reliability" here never rising above the reliability of any other open, public, informal discussion (even though it is on a medical subject) or (2) have some arguments and hurt feelings from time to time, whenever necessary, in the interests of increasing "reliability," while still doing our best to maintain forum etiquette as each one sees it. That is the price we pay for not building an official podium and hiring our own naked king to do the editing and decide on the official folkways. And for the most part, what goes on here sure seems to work. As long as everyone learns and has a little fun along the way.

We probably artfully do some combination of items one and two. All naked kings aside, Jeff, you be one well-dressed wise man.


P.S. Reading that last sentence of yours, me thinks you're a fun-loving wiseguy as well. Thanks for both traits!

-SWS wrote:...my only fear is that we'd be marking 99.9% of our technical discussions as UT...

And let us please recognize that tech talk often evolves from a more general thread! Let's face it, the sleep industry is still in its toddler stage, exploring, taking falls, making forward progress thru a fragmented path. I love the explorations of what's happening from those who see a different view of this whole area because it does remind me that this is not yet a fully-understood topic, so of course there is discussion, at times somewhat heated, at times hilarious but that is the nature of social interactions. While there is an incredible amt of information here, it does encompass highly subjective material, manufactor's lit, sleep pros & DMEs comments-suggestions, and research info thus readers must apply some common sense to what is read -- this applies to all sources of info regardless of source. Each of us has the freedom to post questions about what is read. I for one love the mix of threads here!

-SWS wrote:. . . We probably artfully do some combination of items one and two. . . .

I consider you quite artful at it, -SWS.

But I have already been told today here at work that my tie doesn't match my shirt.

I will tell my wife that there is someone out there who appreciates what a wiseguy I am.

Thanks, -SWS.

Rule of UT Threads (draft, presented for discussion)

Total comprehension is not required.

Skimming for usable/useful information is permitted on a user by user basis.

Posting to UT threads is not required to learn from that thread.

If/when a thread goes UT, further discussion should remain w/in the original thread.

Any information that is suspect will be presented to
The would-be-naked-king for clarification.

Reliability of information is determined entirely by the reader.

Reliablility of information or lack of, may, in some cases,
be enhanced by arguments and hurt feelings,
depending on whose side the reader is on.

Poster, may at their disgression, "dumb down" information being presented.

All threads/posts are available for attack.

UT threads/posts presented by competing The would-be-naked-kings will
stand/fall on their own merit and credibility.

Learning is optional.

Fun is optional.

Oh, for crying out loud, carbonman! How can we possibly function with all those proposed non-rules???? And who self-destructed in the forum and made you the Uber-Naked? You think you can just come along and hijack this poll like that? Huh? Where are your sources? What expertise do you have in even suggesting proposed possible non-guidelines non-outlining what isn't going to be un-self-enforced? What makes you think you have any idea what the rest of us weren't talking about? You just stick to your cutesy biker threads and secret codes, alien-boy, OK!!!!!!

Oh, wait, what I meant to say was, "nice summary." The rest of the above was just jealousy because all the chicks here seem to dig you more, and I couldn't find anyone else to go off on, anyway, and after all you volunteered.

I feel so much better now.

Happy Flaming Friday!

jnk wrote:Oh, for crying out loud, carbonman! How can we possibly function with all those proposed non-rules???? And who self-destructed in the forum and made you the Uber-Naked? You think you can just come along and hijack this poll like that? Huh? Where are your sources? What expertise do you have in even suggesting proposed possible non-guidelines non-outlining what isn't going to be un-self-enforced? What makes you think you have any idea what the rest of us weren't talking about? You just stick to your cutesy biker threads and secret codes, alien-boy, OK!!!!!!
Happy Flaming Friday!

Thank you!

I can just feel the love.

Now that we're both feeling better, what do you say we sneak out of here before DoriC catches us misbehaving, then we can go harrass secret agent girl, or somebody?

Can I just get serious here for a minute? As one who voted for #1, it's been my experience that when I'm reading something UT that I think might be important for me to really question,but don't feel comfortable asking online, I PM one of the "lucky" experts here(even SWS) participating in the thread who are willing to answer in terms that make sense to me,sometimes patiently more than once! I am very grateful for their "dumbed down" replies so I can actually say out loud, "Oh, now I understand!! Now back to the fun and laughter!

carbonman from a few pages back wrote: . . . Just remember, you will need to have your obligatory apology post ready . . .

Oops. I forgot.

Sorry, carbonman. I sometimes say thoughtless and careless things.

(Say something nice, carbonman, because DoriC is, like, looking right at us, man. And if I get put in time-out one more time, I think I get suspended . . .)

Komodo wrote:I like the techno talk, but I do appreciate it when they're "dumbed down" into plain English so I can make sense out of what's being discussed.

My 0.2c worth.

I think this comment gets to the heart of some of the issues that may arise. It does seem to me there are times when the technical discussions are so excessively technical that one might ask what the purpose is other than to confuse or play games. If this forum were for xPAP therapists, then a high level of technical content and professional argy-bargy would be both expected & perhaps reasonable.

At times I have attempted, as a dumb layman, to give an interpretation of some discussion 1) to see if I am understanding it & 2) in the hope others might benefit from my attempts (at times rather clumsy) to bring the topic into perspective. I have been hoping that my earlier clumsy efforts in doing this, were improving but I can see two side effects, 1) I jumped in too often & created further confusion or 2) that when I add my opinion into the mix, that often triggers reactions from some who feel I should keep them to myself as they completely disagree. Whilst expressing opinions is a lot of what forumas are about, it does bother some folk (probably justifiably) if someones opinions appear to carry far more weight than they believe they deserve. That is a basis for conflict & dissention.

There is also a reality about public forums, that is in many respects they are agrown-ups reflection of the school playground but done with more aggressive egos. Newcommers can easily be scared off if there is too much ego play at a particular time. But we all have egos & the best hope is we learn to deal with them.

I believe that almost ALL technical discussions are worthwhile if 2 or more people want to explore them, BUT, that there has to be consideration in the discussion of the technical language, jargon & accronyms used, for the bulk of people who come to the forum and want to learn, even the technical stuff.
If such discussions serve to confuse bulk members, then it is the language being used that should be fixed up. I will add that at times, I have thought to myself, that reading a patent application can sometimes be easier and make more sense (to me) than following some of the really technical conversations here (but what can I expect, I am after all a muddle headed old man).

DSM

jnk wrote:Oh, for crying out loud, carbonman! How can we possibly function with all those proposed non-rules???? And who self-destructed in the forum and made you the Uber-Naked? You think you can just come along and hijack this poll like that? Huh? Where are your sources? What expertise do you have in even suggesting proposed possible non-guidelines non-outlining what isn't going to be un-self-enforced? What makes you think you have any idea what the rest of us weren't talking about? You just stick to your cutesy biker threads and secret codes, alien-boy, OK!!!!!!

Oh, wait, what I meant to say was, "nice summary." The rest of the above was just jealousy because all the chicks here seem to dig you more, and I couldn't find anyone else to go off on, anyway, and after all you volunteered.

I feel so much better now.

Happy Flaming Friday!

LOL !!!



D

jnk wrote:

carbonman from a few pages back wrote: . . . Just remember, you will need to have your obligatory apology post ready . . .

Oops. I forgot.

Sorry, carbonman. I sometimes say thoughtless and careless things.

(Say something nice, carbonman, because DoriC is, like, looking right at us, man. And if I get put in time-out one more time, I think I get suspended . . .)

I know I shouldn't be saying this and I'm sure your Moms or big sisters would not agree, but I think you're both ADORABLE!! There,I said it but I expect many differing opinions on this UT subject.(I just love that code word)!

jnk wrote:

Isn't the primary purpose of forums mostly just to have a place for me to post my opinions so everyone else can attack them? As long as I am attacked respectfully, I welcome all attacks. All of our opinions are stupid, but some have proven that some of their opinions are less stupid than others, over time.

jeff

Now I understand. So attacking others opinions, facts, truth or whatever, is actually obligatory.

Thanks, jnk, at last it all makes sense.

But let us not restrict "technical" discussions to those of a scientific nature. In the 21st century surely technical discussions can also include depression, anxiety, anger, jealousy, procrastination, compulsive flaming and suchlike. And we can probably include the myriad different ways to overcome these characteristics, as well as how to overcome the deeply ingrained desire in some of us not to overcome these characteristics.

Whereas not all of us are "scientific experts", I guarantee that just about all of us are "experts" on the human condition.

I find that some people have the same opinion as me, and some people do not. There is no one to give word from on high as to who is right and who is wrong. In the real world long held beliefs are continually proved wrong, and that is called progress. It supposedly teaches us discernment, rather than continuing as a sheep.

So I think that so-called technical discussions help us to think for ourselves, even if that only means a decision not to read the discussion, as many decide to do re: "flaming" discussions or "flaming" posters.

I was brought up with the old English saying -

"Everyone in the world is quite mad, except for me and thee. And sometimes I have my doubts about thee."

And I have to add that sometimes I have my doubts about me

cheers

Mars

mars wrote: . . . Now I understand. So attacking others opinions, facts, truth or whatever, is actually obligatory.

Thanks, jnk, at last it all makes sense. . . .

Really? Any chance you could explain it back to me in a way I can understand, then? Because, as usual, I wasn't really listening to myself.

I can't say that what I said describes my personal style. But I do believe that in the early days of the great culture-clash we now call the Internet, if a fellow took the trouble to post something that he had spent some time thinking about, it was like hanging a work of art on a cyberspace wall. And like most artists, what the poster wanted most was a reaction. It didn't matter so much to him whether the reaction was agreement or disagreement--either reaction would move the discussion along on the board. What the poster did NOT want, though, was to be ignored, since that isn't art, and because that would mean his investment in expensive computer equipment was a waste of time and money and that would imply that his thoughts were not worthy of getting a reaction. Being worthy of being debated was particularly considered a compliment. Receiving a personal attack meant an emotional reaction had been achieved. That was extra points!

A provocative shorthand form of communication quickly emerged in some circles that was unintelligible to the uninitiated. But as we move forward a few decades, most of the people using public boards these days are unaware of the culture of those days. The underpinnings are still there, though, I believe, at least for some people when it comes to technical discussions. Many of the veteran posters on THIS board, however, do NOT approach technical discussions with that mindset. It is the courtesy of so many of the veterans here that makes this place so special.

I have no source to back up the impressions I have just expressed, though. And I admit that I may have made most of it up on the spot.

jeff