Women: Please help me design a female-oriented PAP-Cap

Muse-Inc · Post by **Muse-Inc** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:04 pm

1. Fabric Color:
Personally thinking of getting some neoprene (when I have income) and dupping my Hybrid headgear only to fit my much smaller head than it was designed for...all the straps overlap. It would of couse be in a dayglo color like bubblegum pink or some wild print in brilliant colors...I am if nothing else colorful! I like the slight stretchiness of neoprene as it makes it easier to get the durned mask off in a hurry if need be.

I've never gotten a papcap as I still get hot during sleep regardless of how cold I might feel at bedtime.

2. Hair Management:
I have very short hair, so not an issue.

3. Would a hair net be helpful, such as this (without the bow):
See above

4. Instructions: Are there any special tips / tricks that should be passed on to women?
Cleaning, interaction with moisturizers

5. Anything else that might make the product more useful for women--especially in light of the negative experiences
Wide straps that allow venting heat from head? Many of us struggle with hot flashes at times, so a cap that covers the entire head likely would get too hot.

I would love to be able to use the PAP-Cap to give women a sense of dignity, femininity, and style....
I'd settle for brilliant colors with matching strap padding and hose cover. I hate strap marks, they take forever to fade; I had to give up total face moisturizers until I figured out where I could use 'em without migration to the silicon.

cflame1 · Post by **cflame1** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:18 pm

On the other hand I have a large head... usually can't find a hat that would fit (male or female). So I haven't tried your pap cap Bret (also wasn't sure that it would work with my mask). So be clear on your sizes/measurements, don't make them necessarily gender specific... because we don't all have the same head sizes.

My hair's thick and not extra long, but long enough (stops before my shoulders).

Net, wouldn't care for one... currently have a tendency to stick my hair between the straps at the back of my hybrid.

I do agree though with whomever suggested getting together with padacheek and coming up with coordinating colors/patterns... I like it when things match... and when they're soft (pada's are usually soft).

slapmeawake · Post by **slapmeawake** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:40 am

I have short hair and it is an issue with the Pap-Cap as it mashes my fine hair down and it won't cooperate in the morning. I don't have any suggestions to remedy this other than what another poster said, maybe have it open more.

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:59 am

^Then there are us older women who live hotter - there is no way I would put that much solid fabric on my head The only time I have slept with something on my head is while camping in below freezing temps.

When I did have long hair I would create a loose tail at the very top of my head to feed the hair our of my head covering in order to sleep comfortably at -5 C or I would just braid it loosely.

As for colours - anything except that ugly blue that is in the photo on line. How about some glitter and metallic accents? Go look at fashion colours. Lavender is in right now. Old ladies who think old wear lavender.

Uncle_Bob · Post by **Uncle_Bob** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:59 am

Not meaning to hijack but some general suggestions I think both sexes will appreciate.

1) Netting or mesh to keep the head cooler
2) some kind of recess or arch around the ears mine moves slightly and starts to slice into my ears.
3) a padded material used for the chin strap part so it does not dig into flesh and mark the underside of my chin.

Pattern does not really bother me since i put it on for sleeping and not for night out on the town. It could be pink with barbies on it for all i care

Good luck with the design and thanks for bringing us the PapCap, the only chinstrap that stops my mouth breathing without needing to mouth tape.

DreamOn · Post by **DreamOn** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:01 pm

Uncle_Bob, I hope you don't mind my comments on a few things you mentioned....

Uncle_Bob wrote:2) some kind of recess or arch around the ears mine moves slightly and starts to slice into my ears.

My PAPCap Plus did that too, but after wearing it a while the fabric did "conform" to my ear more, and it doesn't cut into my ears anymore. I think that some people have the cap over the top of their ears, but that wasn't working for me. On my cap, part of the problem may be that the stiff Velcro is right there over the ears. I have the Voyager fabric. Perhaps the other fabric is stiffer and doesn't conform after a while?

3) a padded material used for the chin strap part so it does not dig into flesh and mark the underside of my chin.

Several people have mentioned this. Hasn't been a problem for me, and I just wonder if they're wearing the chinstrap too tight? Might try wearing it a bit looser and see if it still prevents the mouth leaks. I know that everyone's anatomy is different, but I can open my mouth somewhat and my tongue still blocks air from escaping with the chinstrap. Also, I wear my chinstrap very forward, sometimes even partly off my chin. Don't want to wear it too far back, as it'd be more likely to block your airway by putting pressure near your neck.

Pattern does not really bother me since i put it on for sleeping and not for night out on the town. It could be pink with barbies on it for all i care

Bret, you may want to assemble a "focus group" -- maybe friends or even members of this forum -- to give you some specific feedback on fabrics. If doing this over the internet, you could scan in eight different fabric swatches, assign a number to each, and have people choose their favorite four, ranking them so you know which of the four are the most preferred by the group as a whole. I find most of the fabrics offered (not just by you, but everyone who makes CPAP accessories) to be a little boring. I think it would be a mistake to assume that women only like pastel colors. I know that there are some constraints, but the more choices the better -- pastels and some brighter, bolder prints too.

~ DreamOn

bearded_two · Post by **bearded_two** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:09 pm

Something like black fishnet stockings with black leather trim might be a good look.

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:41 pm

bearded_two wrote:Something like black fishnet stockings with black leather trim might be a good look.

Right on! and some "diamond" trim too.

Kiralynx · Post by **Kiralynx** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:26 pm

I haven't tried a Pap Cap yet for the simple reason that anything on my head beyond the Headrest or the CL2 head piece (and even the CL2 is too much for summer!) will retain heat and I end up sweating like the blazes.

Perhaps some kind of mesh could be used that could be comfortable, yet let the heat out.

As for colors... geeze, why is it everyone thinks women want pastels and florals? I like Pad-a-Cheek's moon-and-stars, but my preference for something I'm wearing is a plain silver, black, navy, or burgundy. Or a dark forest green.

bearded_two · Post by **bearded_two** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:36 pm

Kiralynx wrote:I haven't tried a Pap Cap yet for the simple reason that anything on my head beyond the Headrest or the CL2 head piece (and even the CL2 is too much for summer!) will retain heat and I end up sweating like the blazes.

Perhaps some kind of mesh could be used that could be comfortable, yet let the heat out.

As for colors... geeze, why is it everyone thinks women want pastels and florals? I like Pad-a-Cheek's moon-and-stars, but my preference for something I'm wearing is a plain silver, black, navy, or burgundy. Or a dark forest green.

The fishnet and leather would also look good in navy, burgundy, or dark forest green too - perhaps use silver or gold colored leather for contrast.

Kiralynx · Post by **Kiralynx** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:45 pm

bearded_two wrote:The fishnet and leather would also look good in navy, burgundy, or dark forest green too - perhaps use silver or gold colored leather for contrast.

Hmm... yes, there are possibilities here!

Cobalt Panther · Post by **Cobalt Panther** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:09 am

SleepGuy wrote:
1. Fabric Color: lavender colored solid print?
Personally I hate pastels. How about jewel tone prints? I am a sucker for paisleys

2. Hair Management: The current design allows for long hair to be fed out of the cap, beneath the "tail" and the backstraps locking below the hair. How is does this work? Is a ponytail recommended or does that create an uncomfortable knot? Does your hair get tangled in the Velcro straps? Design recommendations?
n/a I have short hair

3. Would a hair net be helpful, such as this (without the bow): http://www.horsetackinternational.com/i ... -black.JPG
see above

4. Instructions: Are there any special tips / tricks that should be passed on to women?
I don't know any but would sure like to know of any!

5. Anything else that might make the product more useful for women--especially in light of the negative experiences
I love my PapCap Plus! But I also can see where some changes could be helpful to all users.
1) Mesh idea to help keep head cooler.
2) Better velcro on lower straps. Mine seems to be wearing rather quickly.
3) More coverage for lower strap velcro. Once I tighten it up there is not much connecting area and the loose pieces are irritating.
4) Slightly narrower lower straps so that they feed through the clips better.
5) Softer material on inside of lower straps. Area where strap touches cheek.
6) Softer material on chinstrap. Just on the part that goes under the chin.
7) Padding that can be added to the forehead section. I use a Quattro and need some type of padding on my forehead. If it was attached or at least removable then I would not have to rig up something myself

In general I love my PapCap Plus. I hope you can understand my suggestions. Please let me know if I need to better explain what I am thinking. Just remember --- Jewel tone paisleys!!!

DreamOn · Post by **DreamOn** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:20 am

Cobalt Panther wrote:How about jewel tone prints? I am a sucker for paisleys

I agree, jewel tone paisleys may be fun. I'm partial to those brighter color tones too.

Padding that can be added to the forehead section. I use a Quattro and need some type of padding on my forehead.

Cobalt Panther, if you haven't already, you may want to try the "PAD A CHEEK Forehead Pad for Activa, Quattro and Ultra Mirage Style Mask": http://padacheek.com/PACActiva_UM.html. It works really well with my Activa LT. I use it with my PAPCap Plus. They also have a forehead pad that includes a piece of fabric that hangs down to protect the nose bridge, which works with some masks.

~ DreamOn

robertmarilyn · Post by **robertmarilyn** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:55 pm

SleepGuy wrote:I am working on developing a more female-oriented PAP-Cap and would really appreciate some feedback. Helpful comments will be rewarded--special discount coupon codes, demo product samples, free product--and many thanks.

Some issues I am considering:

1. Fabric Color: lavender colored solid print?

Either would be okay with me.

2. Hair Management: The current design allows for long hair to be fed out of the cap, beneath the "tail" and the backstraps locking below the hair. How is does this work? Is a ponytail recommended or does that create an uncomfortable knot? Does your hair get tangled in the Velcro straps? Design recommendations?

A pony tail can be lumpy to sleep on but since I always need to sleep on my side anyway, the point is moot. In fact, now that I think about it, a pony tail is a good way to keep me from sleeping on my side. Someone should patent the idea and get rich!!

3. Would a hair net be helpful, such as this (without the bow): http://www.horsetackinternational.com/i ... -black.JPG

I think a hair net would be great if it meant the cap would not hold in so much heat.

4. Instructions: Are there any special tips / tricks that should be passed on to women?

5. Anything else that might make the product more useful for women--especially in light of the negative experiences

My problem with the cap pap is that it covered my ears because it was so big. That made my head hotter and my ears would get sore from sleeping on the cap against my ears. I tried rolling the cap up so that it stayed above my ears but either that meant the cap wouldn't fit the top of my head properly (gave me sort of a bubble head) or I had a big roll of cap behind my ears, which hurt in it's own special way. I seemed to need a"smaller" one size fits all cap.

Or the 164 things that never occurred to me, being a dumb guy!

Several months ago I saw a news piece featuring the utter personal devastation experienced by many women upon receiving the CPAP Life Sentence--I would love to be able to use the PAP-Cap to give women a sense of dignity, femininity, and style....

Boy, I was in CPAP hell for a while but it turns out that my problem was something other than sleep apnea so I'm not on the machine anymore. If you decide to reward my comments, I'd love to donate my reward to someone on this forum...the folks here have helped me in so many ways.
mar

SleepGuy · Post by **SleepGuy** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:29 am

I lost track of this thread over the holiday and just now catching up--

THANKS! This feedback is extremely helpful. It will take a while to digest all of this...

Working on redesigning the bottom / backstrap extensions (all caps) to be a cotton strap extension that snaps onto the backstraps...is narrow enough to feed through mask fittings, and has better / more durable Velcro. The snap seems like a good idea because it becomes a quick release mechanism as well...I'll post some pics once I've got the sample in hand.

Also thinking about including cheek protectors for the backstrap extensions...to help with ear irritation.

Women: Please help me design a female-oriented PAP-Cap

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