Scary Symptom..

Hi,
I am just curious, how long have you been on Xanax? How fast did you come off?
Susan

I too am a mouth breather and found this little rubber headgear thing on line that makes a big difference as holds my mouth closed. Something else I always seemed to have a low grade nasal infection mucus green not clear. I change the little pocket on the mask every three days with a piece of cotton ball (was going two weeks plus). Infection gone and sleep well. Also just had the surgery last thursday ( I am an airline pilot and cannot plug my unit in in flight for my rest periods as do loooong haul) hopeful but man the recovery was painful!M

mickav8r wrote:I too am a mouth breather and found this little rubber headgear thing on line that makes a big difference as holds my mouth closed. Something else I always seemed to have a low grade nasal infection mucus green not clear. I change the little pocket on the mask every three days with a piece of cotton ball (was going two weeks plus). Infection gone and sleep well. Also just had the surgery last thursday ( I am an airline pilot and cannot plug my unit in in flight for my rest periods as do loooong haul) hopeful but man the recovery was painful!M

Can you share a link for the rubber mouth thingy please?!?
Thank you

As I am reading these posts I wonder if that is what is happening to me because some times when I go to bed and start to fall asleep I wake up like I am starving for air. Not all the time but it has happened several times in the past few months? Maybe my new sleep doctor saw something in the report he printed out from my card and that's why he ordered the new sleep study. I only got 2 pages of 30 that were printed.

Well, I'm gonna take a stab at answering everyone:

Muse-Inc wrote:Try the Hybrid, covers mouth & has nasal pillows that can be adjusted to 2 heights, does not cover the nose or touch the forehead. I hadda give up my beloved OptiLife pillow mask 'cause I was losing therapy air and taping was too scary with my history of allergies-chronic sinusitis-vasomotor rhinitis-congestion.

I had one, I requested it from the VA. didn't fit, gave me heck. But thanks for the suggestion.

BlackSpinner wrote:I used to have this falling asleep - wake up freaking out too - especially before cpap. I thought I was getting anxiety attacks over all the issues in my life (sick parents, work, money, kid in college, memories of the fire). When I started cpap and learned more about apneas I realized it was "just an apnea" I found I could relax an just ignore the whole thing. It was not an anxiety attack, my life though fraught with issues was not keeping awake, I didn't have to get up, eat or read a book - it was just a sign I was falling asleep! The machine is there to keep me breathing - and it does.

Dear Spinner. You are very encouraging to me. I would love to be able to just ignore the anxiety. Im a very Type-A dude. I also have heart trouble and high blood pressure already, and these new occurences are very scary in my condition. And whats so funny is, I have no reason to have anxiety! I'm retired with a sufficient income, no debt, happily married to a fantastic wife.. So when Im trying to fall asleep and these happen, and its dark and so and so, the mind takes off..

FatiguedMe wrote:Hi,
I am just curious, how long have you been on Xanax? How fast did you come off?
Susan

I was on a .5mg dose for 5 months. I decided to drop off it when the .5 dose quit working. I did a lot of reading, and I was determined not to raise my dose up. I went to half a pill for several days then off completely. That may also be part of my issue. the stuff can be addictive.

mickav8r wrote:I too am a mouth breather and found this little rubber headgear thing on line that makes a big difference as holds my mouth closed. Something else I always seemed to have a low grade nasal infection mucus green not clear. I change the little pocket on the mask every three days with a piece of cotton ball (was going two weeks plus). Infection gone and sleep well. Also just had the surgery last thursday ( I am an airline pilot and cannot plug my unit in in flight for my rest periods as do loooong haul) hopeful but man the recovery was painful!M

Mick, if you're talking about chinstraps, they dont work for me. Not only do they hurt, but air blows out between my lips. I used to be a private pilot, but the heart attacks and the yearly Special Issuance hoops I had to jump thru to get my 3rd class eve

Patrick A wrote:As I am reading these posts I wonder if that is what is happening to me because some times when I go to bed and statr to fall asleep I wake up like I am starving for air. Not all the time but it has happened several times in the past few months? Maybe my new sleep doctor saw something in the report he printed out from my card and that's why he ordered the new sleep study. I only got 2 pages of 30 that were printed.

ry year were too much so I grounded myself. You are in my dream job sir!

Patrick A wrote:As I am reading these posts I wonder if that is what is happening to me because some times when I go to bed and statr to fall asleep I wake up like I am starving for air. Not all the time but it has happened several times in the past few months? Maybe my new sleep doctor saw something in the report he printed out from my card and that's why he ordered the new sleep study. I only got 2 pages of 30 that were printed.

Patrick, My dr happily gave me a copy of my complete study. I studied that and I read a lot about Sleep Onset Apneas, along with some insight from some fine peeps on this forum. I hope your dr will give you some insight.

Whew!

PS: Last night, I took half a Ambien at 10:00, slept till 1:16 AM with cpap at 8, took the other half and fell back asleep till 5:30AM. Took off the mask and laid there and slept for another hour and had a dream during that hour. Got up tired and with a little headache. Looked at my numbers for over the 3 periods and my AHI ws 5.0. I did have some OA's and H's. Seems like I had s few right before I woke up at 1:16.

BrandyMB wrote:... Every time I would start drifting off, I would stop breathing and come back to with the head rush. I would grab something and read for a while then try again. ... I curled up on the love seat half upright and in I'd say 5 minutes I was out. Slept like that till 6:33. so I got 3.5 hrs there. Wife said I was sleeping sound and breathing normally. ...

Patrick A wrote:... As I am reading these posts I wonder if that is what is happening to me because some times when I go to bed and start to fall asleep I wake up like I am starving for air. Not all the time but it has happened several times in the past few months? ...

Based on my own experience, it is possible both of you might be facing one of two issues.

First, you might not have quite the right pressure. If you obstruct as you fall asleep you would have an apnea event and would awaken. The fact that you slept better when upright tends to indicate that might be an issue. If that's the case, you can try extra pillow(s) to help elevate your head. You might also try a small pillow under your neck to help open your airway.

Second, it is possible you had a sleep onset central apnea. Most people do have them. The body uses two different mechanisms to regulate breathing. The mechanism your body uses while awake is different than when you sleep. During sleep onset the body rather suddenly shifts to the second method. During this time, the mechanism to signal the need for a breath can lag a bit and cause a central sleep apnea. It is pretty normal and not normally a problem, since the duration tends to be fairly short.

If it happens occassionally (as it has for Patrick A) then it's not really a problem. Just be aware that it is normal. However, when it becomes frequent and severe enough, it can interfere with your ability to fall asleep. Trust me, I understand. However, if you have a significant issue with breathing dysregulation (poor control of breathing) during sleep onset then you probably also experience a heightened number of central apneas during sleep. In most cases (from what I've read) type of dysregulation tends to occur duing Stage 1 (N1) and Staqe 2 (N2) of Non-REM (NREM) sleep. During deeper stages and REM sleep there is more brain stem activity, which tends to cause the brain to better regulate breathing during sleep during those stages.

But these issues are really rare. It is much more likely you had problems with obstructive apnea as you fall asleep. As I noted the need to be upgright tends to indicate that. Or just had some central apneas during sleep onset. And in Patrick A's case, the infrequent nature of the problem indicates it's just the normal sleep onset central apnea.

Please understand that I am NOT minimizing your symptoms. Trust me, I understand this problem. It was not until I was put on an ASV unit that my problems with breathing during sleep onset and sleep has been helped. I have a degenerative neurological issue that impacts the brain stem and led to this dysregulation of sleep and breathing. So, you both have my complete empathy and understanding. It can be a horrible experience.

Of course, the only way to be certain is to discuss it with your doctor and possibly have an overnight sleep study to monitor your body during the sleep onset process.

JohnBFisher wrote:

BrandyMB wrote:... Every time I would start drifting off, I would stop breathing and come back to with the head rush. I would grab something and read for a while then try again. ... I curled up on the love seat half upright and in I'd say 5 minutes I was out. Slept like that till 6:33. so I got 3.5 hrs there. Wife said I was sleeping sound and breathing normally. ...

Patrick A wrote:... As I am reading these posts I wonder if that is what is happening to me because some times when I go to bed and start to fall asleep I wake up like I am starving for air. Not all the time but it has happened several times in the past few months? ...

Based on my own experience, it is possible both of you might be facing one of two issues.

First, you might not have quite the right pressure. If you obstruct as you fall asleep you would have an apnea event and would awaken. The fact that you slept better when upright tends to indicate that might be an issue. If that's the case, you can try extra pillow(s) to help elevate your head. You might also try a small pillow under your neck to help open your airway.

Second, it is possible you had a sleep onset central apnea. Most people do have them. The body uses two different mechanisms to regulate breathing. The mechanism your body uses while awake is different than when you sleep. During sleep onset the body rather suddenly shifts to the second method. During this time, the mechanism to signal the need for a breath can lag a bit and cause a central sleep apnea. It is pretty normal and not normally a problem, since the duration tends to be fairly short.

If it happens occassionally (as it has for Patrick A) then it's not really a problem. Just be aware that it is normal. However, when it becomes frequent and severe enough, it can interfere with your ability to fall asleep. Trust me, I understand. However, if you have a significant issue with breathing dysregulation (poor control of breathing) during sleep onset then you probably also experience a heightened number of central apneas during sleep. In most cases (from what I've read) type of dysregulation tends to occur duing Stage 1 (N1) and Staqe 2 (N2) of Non-REM (NREM) sleep. During deeper stages and REM sleep there is more brain stem activity, which tends to cause the brain to better regulate breathing during sleep during those stages.

But these issues are really rare. It is much more likely you had problems with obstructive apnea as you fall asleep. As I noted the need to be upgright tends to indicate that. Or just had some central apneas during sleep onset. And in Patrick A's case, the infrequent nature of the problem indicates it's just the normal sleep onset central apnea.

Please understand that I am NOT minimizing your symptoms. Trust me, I understand this problem. It was not until I was put on an ASV unit that my problems with breathing during sleep onset and sleep has been helped. I have a degenerative neurological issue that impacts the brain stem and led to this dysregulation of sleep and breathing. So, you both have my complete empathy and understanding. It can be a horrible experience.

Of course, the only way to be certain is to discuss it with your doctor and possibly have an overnight sleep study to monitor your body during the sleep onset process.

John, you're right. I have read a lot of the subject in the past couple days. As I stated before, with an oximeter, I see my O2 drops to about 88% when I notice i have one of those events. But with the Ambien, I can fall asleep for what its worth. Last night I slept on the couch elevated with 3 pillows. I didnt have the best of nights. Tonight, same thing but I upped the pressure on my machine. My sleep study indicated I did my best at 8 - 10. My dr told me to use 8 if the pressure bothers me. But if it aint working, Ill go up. Guess it aint.

Anyone who has anxiety or panic attacks may be interested in this recent thread too, as there's some good information there: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47054&p=423839#p423839.

~ DreamOn

DreamOn wrote:Anyone who has anxiety or panic attacks may be interested in this recent thread too, as there's some good information there: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47054&p=423839#p423839.

~ DreamOn

Thank you for that link. I read it and I'm being described to a T. I am truly my owm worst enemy.

I reread my post, think I got a little off track. Anyway, I don't know about Xanax, but quite a list of Anti-Depressants that inhibit REM sleep. I know Xanax is a commonly prescribed drug for Anxiety, panic attacks etc. But I wonder what effect it has on circadian clock, REM sleep, if at all.

REM deprivation, causing early onset and awakening while in Apnea. Let's face it, during an Apnea the whole body flushes with hormones, goes into emergency mode, brain lights up with panic. How could Xanax and the chemicals in your brain not be effected?? My bet, Xanax or something reacting with it...

Good luck,

SG

BrandyMB wrote:Thank you for that link. I read it and I'm being described to a T. I am truly my own worst enemy.

Me too. Most people are, I suppose.

SuperGeeky wrote:I reread my post, think I got a little off track. Anyway, I don't know about Xanax, but quite a list of Anti-Depressants that inhibit REM sleep. I know Xanax is a commonly prescribed drug for Anxiety, panic attacks etc. But I wonder what effect it has on circadian clock, REM sleep, if at all.

This is interesting information regarding Xanax -- side effects, withdrawal symptoms, effects on sleep: http://pointofreturn.com/xanax_withdrawal.html. From that page:

"XANAX also alters the sleep architecture by reducing the amounts of restorative Rapid Eye Movement (REM) sleep and increasing the non-restorative sleep patterns. This can result in daytime drowsiness and poor cognitive function. XANAX can also depress the tone of respiratory muscles, which may lead to sleep apnea."

BrandyMB, it'll be interesting to see if you feel better once you're completely weaned off the Xanax, as it appears that could be responsible for some of the problems you've been having.

~ DreamOn

regarding the hybrid - It is a bitch to get fitting right - It took me about 3 weeks - every few nites I would try it and adjust it and then throw if off after a hour and put my Quatro back on. Then somehow I manage to get to that sweet spot and I woke up at 4:30 am still wearing it! Now after some slight adjustments and an additions strap made of ladies tights material (ie cotton knit lycra) It works great.

Anxieties - I had this brilliant break through the other week at my therapist - they are just fears masquerading as "somethin Spe'shuul" - now fear I can deal with. I mean I got back on that F..ing horse and learned to let go of my fear and get it to listen to me! Conquering fear doesn't work with animals - they KNOW when your scared no matter how much you pretend.

SuperGeeky wrote:I reread my post, think I got a little off track. Anyway, I don't know about Xanax, but quite a list of Anti-Depressants that inhibit REM sleep. I know Xanax is a commonly prescribed drug for Anxiety, panic attacks etc. But I wonder what effect it has on circadian clock, REM sleep, if at all.

REM deprivation, causing early onset and awakening while in Apnea. Let's face it, during an Apnea the whole body flushes with hormones, goes into emergency mode, brain lights up with panic. How could Xanax and the chemicals in your brain not be effected?? My bet, Xanax or something reacting with it...

Good luck,

SG

Thanks, SG. The xanax worked for me for quite a while, however I wasnt using pap regular till just a few nites ago. Xanax is a drug that does all of the above, and probably did me more harm that good. I must have been in REM at times because I remember dreaming a lot, but I'd wake up 4 times a night. I'm better off without this crap. I'll stick with Ambien for now.

DreamOn wrote:

SuperGeeky wrote:I reread my post, think I got a little off track. Anyway, I don't know about Xanax, but quite a list of Anti-Depressants that inhibit REM sleep. I know Xanax is a commonly prescribed drug for Anxiety, panic attacks etc. But I wonder what effect it has on circadian clock, REM sleep, if at all.

This is interesting information regarding Xanax -- side effects, withdrawal symptoms, effects on sleep: http://pointofreturn.com/xanax_withdrawal.html. From that page:

"XANAX also alters the sleep architecture by reducing the amounts of restorative Rapid Eye Movement (REM) sleep and increasing the non-restorative sleep patterns. This can result in daytime drowsiness and poor cognitive function. XANAX can also depress the tone of respiratory muscles, which may lead to sleep apnea."

BrandyMB, it'll be interesting to see if you feel better once you're completely weaned off the Xanax, as it appears that could be responsible for some of the problems you've been having.

~ DreamOn

Ohhh yeh. 5 months on that stuff. I believe it can be responsible. I was on a very low dose though (.5mg at bedtime). We shall see!
-Mark