CPAP Night Seven

Gary, you really don't need to get the numbers down any more. That is quite excellent, and as you get more relaxed and used to the the therapy, it will probably get even better. No reason to be concerned--there's nothing odd about the numbers. Some hypops that are probably leak or change in sleep cycle generated. Not a big deal. Ahi is good, and few apneas---mostly hypop driven.

Tired can last a long, long time, especially if you work hard, and have stresses--I don't think it has to do with the therapy, so much as lifestyle things you might want to change.

Autopapdude wrote:Gary, you really don't need to get the numbers down any more. That is quite excellent, and as you get more relaxed and used to the the therapy, it will probably get even better. No reason to be concerned--there's nothing odd about the numbers. Some hypops that are probably leak or change in sleep cycle generated. Not a big deal. Ahi is good, and few apneas---mostly hypop driven.

Tired can last a long, long time, especially if you work hard, and have stresses--I don't think it has to do with the therapy, so much as lifestyle things you might want to change.

I agree. Those numbers are good. Considering how ResMed machines score events, the chance of hitting 0.0 AHI's are slim. And, yes, "tired" can take quite a while to reverse. The "sleep debt" can take awhile to pay off.

Hang in there.

Den

Gary, I think you're doing everything possible to optimize your cpap therapy. Perhaps it's time to stop working so hard at it, or just take a break from it. Edited to add: not a break from cpap, just a break from the numbers.

I'm guilty of focusing too much on the numbers, and looking for the answers there. I've decided that I need to get a life again. I've neglected my yoga and meditation practice and making quilts, which gives me joy and energy. Do you have any activities, sports, hobbies that you love?

Well I'm definitely planning on staying on the CPAP at least for a week. Then, I may go back to APAP. Maybe I'm wasting my time. But the thing is I have had a few - only a few - but a few times when I wake up refreshed -- If I never experienced the "good night" then yeah, I'd force myself to stick with the program and be patient.

But the fact that I have had a few "good nights" makes me think its not a matter of time in the same way it would be if I never experienced a "good night".

Question for veterans of CPAP/APAP who are currently experiencing nirvana (this includes you C-man, autopapdude, wulfman among others). I mean is it unusual or is it normal to get a few days of nirvana mixed in with being tired before it gets better more often?

Follow up: Would it make sense to get my deviated septum fixed which would only help my therapy (not looking for an OSA cure here - looking to improve therapy)?

I'm not sure what "nirvana" is supposed to feel like. I never did get a feeling (like somebody turned a lightswitch on) of "WOW, I feel great". For me, it was a fairly slow progression. Bad knees, back problems and developing Type 2 diabetes over the years got in the way of the "WOW" feeling. But, there have been improvements in all three. For someone who used to do lots of running, hiking and hunting, the injuries and subsequent weight gain were bitter pills to swallow. But, I didn't get in this condition, overnight......so, the recovery hasn't happened overnight, either......but, it's progressing. It's just like this therapy......we take it one night at a time......and pretty soon, a lot of time has gone by, and things have improved.
It's "Baby steps".

PS I suppose I should add that after I started therapy, the daytime sleepiness went away fairly soon, and the stamina to get through the day was restored early on, too. It's just that there were no definitive points in time where I could say that I felt "this" or "that". I went through periods (some work-related) where I wasn't getting enough sleep, and then there were periods where I was getting alot of sleep (mostly on the weekends to catch up). Somewhere through time, I got to the point where I was wide awake when (or before) the alarm clock went off and if I didn't have to stick to my nightly sleep regime, I could stay up pretty late without pooping out. If you want to know what's frustrating......since I retired in the middle of this summer, I'm still getting up at my old "go to work" time (before 5:00 AM) and can go all day and all night long without wearing out. And here, I thought I'd be getting MORE sleep after I retired........and I'm now getting LESS.


Den

Gary,

For years I stumbled around with little or no knowledge of whether or not my therapy was working. What I did know was that I could sit longer then 5 minutes without falling asleep and work 8-12 hours without feeling exhausted. Once in a while I do wake up feeling extremely refreshed but that doesn’t happen very often. I do not believe that anyone wakes feeling like that very often so your striving for that may be keeping you from some of those magic moments because of the stress trying to attain that blissful morning. Cpap therapy is measured in the little gains like fewer bathroom visits, staying awake while reading or watching TV, enjoying a drive in the country, and many more of life’s little pleasures. I am sure you are experiencing some of these now and they will become more prevalent the further into your therapy that you go. Good luck and keep up the hard work, it will pay off!!

Gary, it just breaks my heart when people come here and can't make this therapy work.
I don't know that I live in nirvana, but I have actually experienced it a few nights.
My recovery did not happen over night. It was small increments over months.
I also literally lived and breathed cpap therapy for the first six months.
It was always in my thoughts. I devoured this forum, I read books and was hyper vigilant
in observation of how my therapy was progressing.
I also constantly push the envelope. Through my cycling, I had a picture of how
I was doing.....almost on a daily basis.

I don't know how to help you.
Here are my suggestions:
Give each major change atleast a few weeks, before you make another major change.
If the masks you have tried are even suspect of not working, try another.
I use a supplement called CoQ10 in the am. It is an energy stimulant.
I only need 50mg to give me a day long boost. If I take anything over that, I can't sleep well.
Keep trying stuff......something has to work.

I don't think there is a normal. We are all individuals. We each have to find our normal.

All I can really do is let you know I hear you and I care.

Wulfman wrote:I'm not sure what "nirvana" is supposed to feel like. I never did get a feeling (like somebody turned a lightswitch on) of "WOW, I feel great". For me, it was a fairly slow progression. Bad knees, back problems and developing Type 2 diabetes over the years got in the way of the "WOW" feeling. But, there have been improvements in all three. For someone who used to do lots of running, hiking and hunting, the injuries and subsequent weight gain were bitter pills to swallow. But, I didn't get in this condition, overnight......so, the recovery hasn't happened overnight, either......but, it's progressing. It's just like this therapy......we take it one night at a time......and pretty soon, a lot of time has gone by, and things have improved.
It's "Baby steps".

But if so slow, how can you measure the improvement?

Wulfman wrote: PS I suppose I should add that after I started therapy, the daytime sleepiness went away fairly soon, and the stamina to get through the day was restored early on, too.

this is what I am looking for. I'm still tired all the time. A degree less than before, but with my numbers, I'd expect to feel better.

I guess one way of looking at it is even if I'm still tired, I am getting some benefit. First of all, I'm giving my chance of living longer just by using CPAP and eliminating events that would otherwise occur. But I did have a few nights over the past few months of feeling great and alert the next day. But most days I'm tired and fight falling asleep when driving. I am able to force myself to concentrate and stay awake, but this isn't good...

I beat my prostate cancer. (had the laproscopic robotic surgery, if anyone is interested, PM me.) I took off 30 lbs. And then I got into this damn car accident cos I fell asleep while driving, and it took 3 months to be diagnosed with OSA.

Sleepy Taz wrote:Gary,

For years I stumbled around with little or no knowledge of whether or not my therapy was working. What I did know was that I could sit longer then 5 minutes without falling asleep and work 8-12 hours without feeling exhausted.

But something isn't right as I'm still feeling tired all day at work. Maybe a degree less than before, but there's no other medical problem I have that would account for it. I guess it takes every one of us a different amount of time to make up the deficit.

Sleepy Taz wrote:Once in a while I do wake up feeling extremely refreshed but that doesn’t happen very often. I do not believe that anyone wakes feeling like that very often so your striving for that may be keeping you from some of those magic moments because of the stress trying to attain that blissful morning. Cpap therapy is measured in the little gains like fewer bathroom visits, staying awake while reading or watching TV, enjoying a drive in the country, and many more of life’s little pleasures. I am sure you are experiencing some of these now and they will become more prevalent the further into your therapy that you go. Good luck and keep up the hard work, it will pay off!!

Yes, I am able to read and stay awake during the day. Still have problems staying awake thru a 3 hour football game. Still working on that.

carbonman wrote:Gary, it just breaks my heart when people come here and can't make this therapy work.

It's working for me. But I think perhaps my expectations aren't realistic, and as it took me a couple of months just to come to terms with acceptance of CPAP as a life style, it will take me a while I suspect to accept the small baby steps of feeling better. Yes, I'm still tired, but less so than before. This I am very aware of. Everyone has a bad night on occasion, and when I had a real stinker the other week, I really felt awful, not just tired, but totally exhausted. Still, I'd rather be able to count progress as feeling alert vs just not feeling totally exhausted.

carbonman wrote: I also literally lived and breathed cpap therapy for the first six months.
It was always in my thoughts. I devoured this forum, I read books and was hyper vigilant
in observation of how my therapy was progressing.

I'm addicted to this place.

carbonman wrote:I don't know how to help you.

Your kind words and words of wisdom help me and many others. Just keep it up.

carbonman wrote: Give each major change at least a few weeks, before you make another major change.
If the masks you have tried are even suspect of not working, try another.

My insurance doesn't cover masks, but I've been keeping my eye on cpapauction.com.

carbonman wrote:I use a supplement called CoQ10 in the am. It is an energy stimulant.
I only need 50mg to give me a day long boost. If I take anything over that, I can't sleep well.

I will look into this. Seems more reasonable to me than injesting caffeine.

carbonman wrote:I don't think there is a normal. We are all individuals. We each have to find our normal.

Words of wisdom.

carbonman wrote:All I can really do is let you know I hear you and I care.

And that means a lot. Be yourself and please keep encouraging those of us that are trying to get this to work better. Which is probably most of us. We all want to get CPAP to work better, even those of us that are successful.

Another thought. Life's a journey, and we all have to enjoy the journey. As a young kid (my definition of kid changes as I get older. Now a kid is anyone under 40, as I am in my mid 50's), I used to believe if I worked hard, at somepoint I'd get over the hill to the other side, where life would be easy. But its not. Life is tough. It isn't easy. And I do remind myself that its important to find time to enjoy stuff through the day-to-day struggles, as it aint ever gonna get easy. And CPAP I guess is just like life. Not easy, but we CPAPPers are a tough bunch. This stuff is hard work. But it's better than the alternative.

Gary, I had some of the "nirvana" feeling when I started on cpap back 11 years ago. I was so sleep deprived I had a very odd thing happen. I was playing with a major symphony orchestra, and during a quiet part of the piece, I actually fell asleep. I was awakened by the person sitting next to me, as my head was down on the music stand. After that, I went for my first sleep study and found I had OSA. I was only in my late 30's, and weighed 180 pounds (being 6 feet tall), so I was not the typical candidate for OSA based on demographics. However, the sleep issues had been going on for a long time. When diagnosed with OSA, and fitted for a pap and mask, the first night, I slept 7 hours and woke up feeling fantastic! It was like a new beginning. However, that did not last long. Cpaps were more primitive then, and my Respironics Solo was loud, and the Goldseal mask was wildly uncomfortable. Therapy was difficult, as the bridge of my nose was rubbed so raw by the mask support (a piece of styrofoam digging into my nose/ forehead area), I bled and got scabs. So, the "nirvana" faded quickly into reality, and it took persistence and wanting to feel better. Did I have bad nights? You bet! Do I still occasionally have bad nights 11 years later, with a sophisticated autopap, and comfortable nasal pillow that is comparatively comfortable. Of course I do! There are nights that are rough, but they are fewer and further between than they were, and I accept xpap as my life--it saved me from serious health issues, and was a new lease on life.

GaryG wrote:...still getting tired when I drive. That's what I'm trying to fix.

About 4 yrs ago, read an article on a study of alertness in one of the women's mags, First or something, anyway, it said best results were achieved with having a person drink 1/3-1/2 cup (no more than this amt) of coffee first thing in the morning. I tried it and it worked for me...1/3 of a small cup of coffee after bathroom trip...gotta be really soon after waking. Eventually I found I got the same results with 1/2 cup of decaff...having a coffeepot with a set ahead brewing cycle works well. But I gotta admit my worst sleepiness was in the afternoon and evening -- after heroic fighting to wake up, mornings were actually my most alert times. Driving home had me on the cell phone to ensure I stayed alert, my cell phone carrier gave me extra mins for this when I started CPAP, 'course I'd been with that carrier for yrs and yrs by then.

Gary,

What distances do you drive? And, are there any particular times of the day that you get drowsy when you drive?

If you're taking ANY medications, you can check them on DRUGS.COM to see if they might have any side effects that are relating to your drowsiness.


Den

Gary, just wondering if your lovely wife has noticed any subtle differences in your daily routine. I say that because my husband kept saying he didn't really feel any better until I pointed out to him that he stayed awake through a whole TV movie one night, read the whole newspaper another day, remembered the phone calls I received while I was out one day, lots of little things that started to add up without his realizing it. I also noticed that he just looked healthier and more handsome. Sometimes it takes an objective view of the situation. I also posted a note to you on Katie's thread before I saw this one.

Autopapdude wrote: When diagnosed with OSA, and fitted for a pap and mask, the first night, I slept 7 hours and woke up feeling fantastic! It was like a new beginning. However, that did not last long. Cpaps were more primitive then, and my Respironics Solo was loud, and the Goldseal mask was wildly uncomfortable. Therapy was difficult, as the bridge of my nose was rubbed so raw by the mask support (a piece of styrofoam digging into my nose/ forehead area), I bled and got scabs. So, the "nirvana" faded quickly into reality, and it took persistence and wanting to feel better.

Thanks for sharing, AD. And it doesn't hurt to remind newbies that pioneers of CPAP like yourself had a lot steeper hills to climb in your therapy. I'm using pad a cheek and the Sleep Comfort Care Pad for nose bridge and still have a mark although now I don't have the gouging mark, just a mark.