Rooster's Advice To cpaptalk Members on Healthcare Debate

s a federal employee, I neither pay FICA nor will collect Socialist Security. (If there is anything left to collect...) Google "CSRS"

Goodness--you don't pay for Social Security and won't collect it? Then you have what you want--privatization! Yes, you are in the distinguished group of Federal Employees that don't participate in Social Security. I'd think you would want universal health care all the more, so as to be sure to be covered when you're in your dotage---although I do believe you have reached that goal already (dotage, that is).

As regards the other issue you bring up, I have no idea what you're talking about. Perhaps, the senescent symptoms have set in earlier than expected, Linky baby! You seem to make up your nastiness and spleenish behavior as you go along.

rooster wrote: It is time to get yourself educated on the current debate – what you have said in the forum in favor of the bill, compared to what you say you want, proves you do not know what the bill will do to you!

I suggest you buy a loto ticket so you can win millions, build a fortress in Alaska and keep a dr on staff like MJ - oh wait that didn't do him any good.

Wonder if Johnny might consider creating a side-forum where our few political zealots can privately insult each other and twist words all day...

Nah... That will never work: political zealots understand full well that they need an audience. What they clearly don't understand is that non-political forums don't need their political zealotry.

LinkC wrote:Is English your second language?

You all can fight each other to the death over this issue for all I care.

However, I can SICK AND TIRED of seeing the above comment. It is rude. You are implying that if English is one's second language, one must be stupid or uneducated. There are many members of this forum from countries besides the USA, and I'm sure they don't appreciate it, either.

Wonder if Johnny might consider creating a side-forum where our few political zealots can privately insult each other and twist words all day...

Nah... That will never work: political zealots understand full well that they need an audience. What they clearly don't understand is that non-political forums don't need their political zealotry.

Honestly, I'd love to see the political debates and outrageous statements stop. However, when told that I am a "Socialist ,Communist, Nazi, or Un-American" for wanting universal health care, I respond in kind. Perhaps it isn't the most flattering commentary, but it is difficult to ignore deliberately provocative statements made to irritate, and degrade. I am not proud of engaging in the mud-slinging that takes place, but consider myself a "political activist," as opposed to a zealot. So, if being passionate for universal healthcare is a fault, or a transgression, consider me guilty.

Nah... That will never work: political zealots understand full well that they need an audience. What they clearly don't understand is that non-political forums don't need their political zealotry.

I do feel the issue of health care is germane to this setting, as ultimately it will impact upon this group even more strongly than the average individual, given that OSA is a severe condition. I do feel it is in our interest to comment on health care, insofar as it will affect and impact upon our quality of life. It is a shame that it has become a "tit for tat" debate, but I have seen other issues take the same course here--some folks get insulting and nasty about non-political comments, and demand proof for every word uttered even on OSA.

Rooster,

If you feel as strongly as you do. Get out and do something about it. Fight the fight alongside those who are in the process. Go volunteer for your State/Federal Representative if they are on the opposing side. If they aren't go volunteer for the other guy/gal. Man the phones, fold leaflets, whatever.

In my opinion, if you aren't willing to put action to your position other than on a message board, you are simply spouting diatribes for your own amusement. I can respect anyone on either side of any argument if they actually put forth an effort to get involved, and stand behind what they believe. Otherwise it's just wasted air.

If you are involved in a real way, all the power to you.

If you feel as strongly as you do. Get out and do something about it. Fight the fight alongside those who are in the process. Go volunteer for your State/Federal Representative if they are on the opposing side. If they aren't go volunteer for the other guy/gal. Man the phones, fold leaflets, whatever.

In my opinion, if you aren't willing to put action to your position other than on a message board, you are simply spouting diatribes for your own amusement. I can respect anyone on either side of any argument if they actually put forth an effort to get involved, and stand behind what they believe. Otherwise it's just wasted air.

_____

Done all of the above, and my comments aren't for my own amusement.

Autopapdude wrote:As regards the other issue you bring up, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Yeah, most of the time you have no idea what YOU'RE talking about either. How convenient.

Gosh, it was less than 2 hrs ago. Scroll up.

(Isn't it about time for another phony apology? Now THAT was funny! You really hooked 'em with that one...)

Wow - great discussion. I know it's way off topic, but it is about health care and health care does affect those of us with sleep apnea.
Regardless of what everyone thinks these seem to be the facts to me:

1. The pharmaceutical and insurance companies and banks are making policy - not the US government.
2. Insurance companies run in the 'for-profit' model will always prefer the rights of the stock holder over the insured.
3. Pharmaceutical and chemical companies run in the 'for-profit' model will always create useless drugs that keep their users alive without actually curing them. It's more profitable to create a pill that you have to take continually to mask or ameliorate symptoms than it is to create a pill that cures an ailment instantly. Research that provides instant cures isn't profitable.
4. It's not about socialism. It's not about communism. It is about corporate oligarchy. The few big corporations that have survived to this point really don't care about us. They care about profit and squeezing it out of us for investors. We cannot address real health care until we address that. Addressing that might mean creating rules about corporations over a certain size that assures that they make absolutely no profit and that all excess will be used in a way that will value the end-users over stock-holders. And no more 'golden parachutes' or impossible-to-spend salaries for mega-company officers. And no more corporate meetings in remote, expensive vacation spots - rather, open corporate meetings where end-users can sit in and listen.
5. Unless we curb the influence of insurance, pharmaceutical, and large chemical companies, this SNAFU will end up exactly the same as the current housing and banking debacle: Everyone will suffer a little so a few people at the top of the corporate oligarchy can continue to suck the rest of us dry. They'll be brought before congress to get their wrists slapped and will be showered with public funds to bail them out so we (the end users) can continue a dysfunctional system. Then they'll say they need more public money and they'll get it because they're 'too big to fail'.
6. Regardless of what you want or where you stand on the issue, our current system has no method for putting the brake on monopoly and encouraging sustainability or diversity in business.

Diversity in any system is what creates sustainability. Our system does not encourage sustainability. Totally-unleashed, unrestrained 'capitalism' always matures into corporate oligarchy posing as capitalism. It's just gangsters or pirates posing as established or ranking community members in yet another massive Ponzi scheme.

We have become a consumer nation, rather than a capitalist nation. We like our couch-commando hold on the remote. We like the status quo, and we are reluctant to take control of our government. You want change? Call your representatives and you senators. Get your friends to do the same. Tell them you're tired of the status quo. But we don't do that because it's easier just to change the channel.

Rooster and I often see things very differently, but on this we agree. The players in Washington are dancing around the elephant in the room without actually addressing it: Corporations have too much control over our representatives and senators. Our elected officials refuse to address the real problem and offer a pallid 'compromise' that merely puts more money in the pockets of corporations - and makes it illegal for us not to allow them to profit. I'm waiting for Congress to wake up cure the real problem - corporate oligarchy.

I'm flummoxed.

ScrappinMom wrote:

LinkC wrote:Is English your second language?

You are implying that if English is one's second language, one must be stupid or uneducated.

Not at all! I'm implying HE doesn't understand plain English. If it were a second language for him, that would give him an excuse.
There's no implication about anyone else.

Autopapdude wrote:I do feel the issue of health care is germane

Oh, I absolutely agree with that statement.

But the condescending politically-based insult hurling lately is absolutely nuts. There are some REALLY good examples in recent political threads of posters very clearly and respectfully delineating their views. DreamDiver's post in this thread is a good example of a post that espouses his views without insulting others. PST is another poster who goes into great detail without hurling insults.

Political discussions are fine. Political debate is fine. But politically-motivated verbal malice and disrespect are not. Politics and religion have even more in common when politics become a kind of religion to the fervent few...

Dreamdriver, great post!

I will add my thoughts to what you said.

One of the real problems with the current health care system is that there are rules in the system that are encouraging the greed you speak of. Things like the Prescription Drug Act, which makes it impossible for people to self-treat. It alos makes durable medical equipment hard to come by. Although it can easily be argued that this is for our protection, it has instead had another dreadful effect-- it has created a kind of monopoly for the health care system. As a result, this monster has just grown and grown, because you have to go through it to obtain health care. Do away with restrictive laws like this, and then add protections to drug companies, equipment companies, etc. to make it hard to sue them for misuse of their drugs or equipment.

What will happen? Few will choose to self-treat because it is not real easy to do. But, it will make a place where doctors, drug companies, equipment companies will have to compete for your health care $$$. That will drive the costs down. (YEs, I know this is a bit simplistic, but you get the gist of what I am driving at.)

There is nothing wrong with making s profit on health care. We just need to have minimal protections to stem rampant greed, because there will always be those who will be greedy. The best way to fix this is to somehow attach a huge public stigma to being reedy. This stigma does not exist in America today.

This idea will not eliminate private insurance. (Health care will still not be 'cheap'.) But it will lessen the amount of it needed, as prices will drop significantly. And by opening up competition in this arena as well, it will cause them to compete for your $$$, again resulting in lower prices.

This will require a new breed of consumers who will have to know what is going on. People will have to educate themselves on health care just as they have to on so many other things. But I think in the end that people would prefer this over a system where the Government calls all the shots.

One comment about drugs. Coming up with one-pill cures is exceptionally difficult and rarely sucessful. Yes, there are a lot of maintenance drugs out there. But these tend to become inexpensive as they become ubiquitious. This can be facilitated by putting hard limits on how long patents can be extended.

The only place for Government health care is for those who *truly* cannot afford it through some uncontrollable extenuating circummstance. These folks (and they are a fairly small number) would not have to work harder at getting health care than staying as healthy as they can.

As far as those who don't have jobs? They that won't work don't eat. They can be helped by the Faith-based folks, who tend to fix the whole person rather than give handouts.

And health care as a right? That is not what the Constitution and Declaration of Independence is about. They are about freedom from tyranny, which is where we are rapidly headed. If you argue that health care is a basic right, then so is an income. Or land. Or a wife/husband and kids, etc. You can see where this kind of thinking results in socialism or totalitarianism.

rooster wrote:

DS wrote:I'm all for a complete (ahem! socialist) takeover of healthcare insurance (not neccessarily 100% "social healthcare" though). The current "government option" is a farce of a disguise for another corporate industry giveaway of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations.

DS,

If you believe what you just wrote, then how about looking at the Physicians for National Healthcare website and let us know what you think? The video link I gave on C-Span is also excellent.

You seem to have good sense (some days), so I would like to know why you would not support their efforts and reject the current DemoPublican efforts.

So you have taken up after your sidekick Link and started turning the meaning of other’s comments into something totally different?

Of course I believe what I just wrote because I know I have good sense everyday! Well, except maybe when I drop by to read the nonsense threads you start around here. Read what I wrote again … I reject the current "government option" and healthcare reform bill because it is, just as I said, a giveaway of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations … a healthcare TARP or stimulus package if you will.

I have many times in the past and here on this forum iterated my “good sense” that profit should be taken out of the insurance industry. Once profit becomes the incentive for the insurance industry, it loses the reason for its existence … relative security from catastrophic events. Imagine having a for-profit national military willing to do pre-emptive war for the highest bidder … it would be non-sense! There are just some things that nations should prioritize without regard for profit (ie. socialize) and that is military defense, education, and healthcare costs.

What you and your sidekick clown (that is what the “C” stands for right?) don’t seem to understand is that democrats and republicans are two sides of the same coin and that coin is owned by the mega-corporations … unrestrained mechanical beasts with no conscience and a monstrous appetite for profit. A hundred years ago they were beat back into submission with trust busting laws … but now the beasts own our national legislative process and fool the bird-brains into tribal party non-sense.

I’m not against capitalism as you always spin my posts into. I’m against unrestrained mega-corporations … the kind that smothers out competition, the kind that own governments, or the kind that are too big to fail … the root source of our socioeconomic problems.

There, spin that all you want …

-SWS wrote:

Autopapdude wrote:I do feel the issue of health care is germane

Oh, I absolutely agree with that statement.

But the condescending politically-based insult hurling lately is absolutely nuts. There are some REALLY good examples in recent political threads of posters very clearly and respectfully delineating their views. DreamDiver's post in this thread is a good example of a post that espouses his views without insulting others. PST is another poster who goes into great detail without hurling insults.

Political discussions are fine. Political debate is fine. But politically-motivated verbal malice and disrespect are not. Politics and religion have even more in common when politics become a kind of religion to the fervent few...

I won't make you list -SWS but I do respect your fine effort to respectify the discussion.

And I agree, DreamDiver laid out an excellent argument (one I agree with) in a very respectful manner.

Yeah, most of the time you have no idea what YOU'RE talking about either. How convenient.

Gosh, it was less than 2 hrs ago. Scroll up.

(Isn't it about time for another phony apology? Now THAT was funny! You really hooked 'em with that one...)

You can have the word "SCHMUCK" inscribed on your tombstone. It would cost extra, but in your case it would be well worth it.