Really confused now!!!

I had the big tongue thing too! It was certainly giving me problems when I first went on CPAP. Must have gone away sometime during the first year...that's the last time I remember thinking about it. Tongue is definately smaller now. Do tongues gain and lose weight? My thyroid system is wonky again (like it was summer of 2001), TSH is elevated with mid-range levels of free T3 & T4. Mixing my high-protein b'fast shake with 2-3 ozs of coconut milk to see if it will help. Last time, a doc said he thought I was having a T4-->T3 conversion problem as I had 3 times expected levels of reverse T3, a biochemical blank that occupies the thyroid receptor sites & does nothing, and 3 times expected levels of cortisol...I was very stressed then. Funny, I am very stressed now too

modistee wrote:Now that you guys mention big thick tongue hmmmm I have that feeling also and seems like I have not been able to swallow well for the last three years when this all started the downhill slide.

Modistee,

The thick tongue and swallowing problem could be due to thyroid, but it could also be due somewhat to the effects of snoring and maybe mouth-breathing too. The constant irritation is bound to cause some swelling and drying. In addition to the slightly enlarged tongue, I've also had problems with throat irritation (and at times swallowing -- sometimes I've even had to force it) for quite some time. The throat seems better since starting CPAP, probably because I'm not snoring anymore. The humidity probably helps too.

I dunno. It all gets so complicated! So many health problems are interrelated. Hopefully, we'll find the answers and some of the problems will resolve.

~ DreamOn

Muse-Inc wrote:I had the big tongue thing too! It was certainly giving me problems when I first went on CPAP. Must have gone away sometime during the first year...that's the last time I remember thinking about it. Tongue is definately smaller now. Do tongues gain and lose weight? My thyroid system is wonky again (like it was summer of 2001), TSH is elevated with mid-range levels of free T3 & T4. Mixing my high-protein b'fast shake with 2-3 ozs of coconut milk to see if it will help. Last time, a doc said he thought I was having a T4-->T3 conversion problem as I had 3 times expected levels of reverse T3, a biochemical blank that occupies the thyroid receptor sites & does nothing, and 3 times expected levels of cortisol...I was very stressed then. Funny, I am very stressed now too

Muse-Inc,

Was your high cortisol level before you started CPAP, or was this a more recent, post-CPAP test? Sleep apnea can cause high cortisol levels, due to the "fight or flight" response when we're unable to breathe, so maybe that was at least part of it. And stress is definitely a factor in hypothyroidism. I'd be interested to see what my cortisol level is, so maybe I'll request that test too!

I hope you get your thyroid figured out. Our bodies sure can get messed up!

~ DreamOn

(Added)

I just did a Google search for 'cortisol' and 'hypothyroidism' and read some information on this website that may be of interest to you: http://www.royalrife.com/hypothyroid.html. I suggest you read the entire article. I'm sure there's a lot more info out there too.

TESTS: Tests provide about half of the needed information. Out of 100 patients with the above symptoms, about 10 will have genuine (primary) hypothyroidism. The rest will mostly be excessive adrenal (cortisol) output blocking conversion from T4 to active T3, or low pituitary function leading to low thyroid function. Some cases are excess estrogen or low adrenal function.

- TSH. This is the primary test. The healthy range is about 2.0-4.0. With symptoms and a reading above 4.0, this is probably primary hypothyroidism. With symptoms and a score below 2.0, the problem is probably a weak anterior pituitary. If the TSH is between 2.0 and 4.0, look at the T4, T3, and cortisol.

- T4 (thyroxin) should be in the middle or just above the middle of the normal range.

- T3 or T3 uptake should be in the middle or just above the middle of the normal range. If there are symptoms, and the T4 is in the middle or upper part of its range, and the T3 is in the lower part of its range, the person is an under-converter.

- Cortisol from a salivary adrenal stress test. Blood TSH, T4, and T3 may be fine. But if there are symptoms, cortisol may be high because of stress or excess carbohydrates in the diet. If the cortisol is high, the patient is almost certainly making reverse T3 instead of real T3. Reverse T3 is not a functional hormone but it looks like normal T3 on a blood test. This is often treated with T3 and T3 may relieve symptoms. But it may be better treated as a high cortisol issue. At least half of adrenal issues are excess cortisol output!

I think you said you're on a low-carb diet now, but were you eating a lot of carbs when your cortisol tested high? It looks like the high cortisol level may be causing the high reverse T3, so if you can get a handle on what's actually causing the elevated cortisol then maybe things will even out?

Let's see, I believe I developed apnea in late '99 because that's when I started gaining 50#s while eating my usual low carb diet; while tired all the time, I was not experiencing the exhaustion I associate with my OSA diagnosis in '07. I also had mouth surgery into a sinus, layoff & new job in new industry, and a sinus infection. In 2001, I had a root canal, gum abscess, CT head scan, gum surgery to extract the infected root tip & leftover abscess tissue -- I am phobic about dental work. That's when my morning cortisol was waaay high and above normal the other 3 times of the day it was tested & TSH was high (tho I've been slowly losing outer edges of eyebrows & hair for 25 yrs & have family hypothyroidism). So, the stress and OSA are hard to separate and likely exacerbated each other. I have to say that my stress level has been high since then, too many major upsets, layoffs, outta work for 3 yrs, freelance work, co-authored a book we haven't been able to sell tho publishers 'like' it & the characters & the setting & plot...go figure, new job where most were less than fluent in English & I had to produce user-friendly 'stuff' from their writing & discussions, had pneumonia, one of my best friends joined another on disability, my mom had cataract surgery & surgery for secondary cataracts & now has glaucoma so I am driver for mom and best friend, major house repairs from storm damage, car engine blew a bearing so hadda replace car, 3 cats died/euthanized, Betta died, refrigerator died, family friend died, another dear family friend developed fast progressing ALZ...at least we got to say goodbye before he forgot us totally, 2 friends divorced, my sorta-kinda adopted daughter (played strong role in raising her & she calls me her American mommy) married and moved away to start her family, diagnosis of apnea & scary high BP, plus other associated slings and arrows

DreamOn wrote:..if you can get a handle on what's actually causing the elevated cortisol then maybe things will even out?

Win the lottery maybe?

Wow you guys were talking about tongues being overly large associated with hypothyroidism and you will never guess what the ENT said to me today when I went in about my sinus problems..... He said my tongue is way bigger than it should be. He also was quite concerned about the last thyroid tests I had where my TSH was 12. You guys are psychic


Still tired but my spirits are at least up. And not terribly cranky today lol Take care all

Modistee