Does M Series Pro provide useful data w/o the software?

After saving up a bit, I am able to buy the Respironics M Series C-Flex Pro, but I don't have enough yet for the software. Does the Pro at least give you some data like how many apneas you had the past night, leaks, etc? Or is the data capability useless without the software, and I should save some more to get the machine and the software together?

I've been using my DS100 for almost 3 weeks and I'm still tired. I want to know if I my therapy is working and I just need more time to get used to CPAP in general. I really wanted to get the Pro when I started the therapy but didn't have the money to upgrade at the time.

It's always better to have the software because you can see what happened and when.....throughout the night.

But, the Pro will at least give you summary numbers in the display. Definitely better than what you've had.....which was "nothing".
Keep saving for the software.


Den

What software are you looking to use? The Encore Viewer?

I have the REMStar Pro (plus software). By far the best option is to save up for the software so that if you have a particularly bad (or particularly good) night you have the option to pull up the data then and there and see what might have been going on to make it so.

In the meantime, I can offer you some hope. Every morning I plot the 7-day AHI average and the 7-day leak average on a tracking program in my ITouch. Following those numbers does give you a sense of overall how you're doing, and you will see it if either shifts significantly. If you happen to be in transition and getting better it can even provide positive reinforcement as the numbers gradually shrink.

There's really no substitute for the precision of being able to know what happened on a specific night. I don't understand why someone at Respironics thought a 7-day and 30-day average is what we should have on the display--though I've seen the 30-day average be of strong interest to my medical provider. As someone said earlier, keep saving your pennies.

Barely. Plus accessing the data via the LCD screen is a PITA as compared to the ease of access to and amount of data available via the LCD screen w/a Resmed.

Slinky wrote:Barely. Plus accessing the data via the LCD screen is a PITA as compared to the ease of access to and amount of data available via the LCD screen w/a Resmed.

Point taken--I've seen what the Resmed screen offers on the forum. I didn't even think of getting into the conversation of whether carolc should buy a Respironics machine in the first place. I wasn't offered a choice for my first machine--however, I'm happy with mine and in no hurry to change.

(edited) I just saw there's another thread going on right now call Resmed vs. Remstar if you have an interest.

The 7/30 day average numbers can be reset to zero if you wish so that you can get an idea as to exactly what one night's numbers really are and perhaps explain why you feel less than optimal.

That said, it still doesn't always tell us much. When I first started therapy I didn't have the software and I wasn't feeling particularly any different than before cpap. I was showing reset nightly AHI numbers from 5-9. Not awful by any means but room for improvement. Leaks were acceptable. When I got the software I saw that I was having hours of sleep with zero or maybe one event, then I would have maybe 10 - 15 events in a 30 minute time frame. These seemed to correspond to REM stage sleep pattern and I am known to be much worse in REM. So while the overall average wasn't hugely awful, those times where I was in REM sleep and having events were likely enough to affect how I felt during the day. Those numbers got sort of lost in the average because of the other hours with essentially no events being flagged.

I think it is very informative to see when the events are occurring using any software. It sometimes explains why the overall average might be acceptable yet we don't feel the improvement we wish. A minor increase in my minimum pressure dropped my average AHI to between 3 and 5. The nighttime bathroom breaks abruptly ceased and I noticed some general energy improvements. No miracles by any means but then I also know that I have other issues that disrupt sleep and thus hugely impacts how I feel the next day. Having to software lets me see that if I feel like crap and I show a not so good night, then I know why. Also lets me see if I feel bad and not much was going on with the OSA that maybe I need to evaluate other things. I still struggle with getting enough hours of sleep. I have greatly improved the fragmentation but still rarely can sleep more than 6 or 7 hours and I just feel so much better when I get closer to 8 hours of sleep.

So we look at numbers, evaluate how we feel, try to figure out a correlation and if need be, implement a change.
Sometimes with the machine, sometimes with other things related to sleep.

To CarolC: I cannot send you a private message because you are not registered. Send me a PM please. I have something to ask you.

Scarlet834 wrote:There's really no substitute for the precision of being able to know what happened on a specific night.

I agree. If I change to a different mask, or am trying something else that could have an impact on treating my obstructive sleep apnea (like elevating head of bed vs sleeping with bed flat) I want to see THAT one night's results the next day.

When experimenting, I usually keep the same factors in place for at least several days in a row, and often a week, without changing anything. But I do want to see the individual nights of data as it goes along....not a mishmash of averages. What I look at might be showing such ineffective treatment that I may decide not to continue the same experiment for a full week.

Scarlet834 wrote: I don't understand why someone at Respironics thought a 7-day and 30-day average is what we should have on the display--though I've seen the 30-day average be of strong interest to my medical provider.

Oh, I understand why Respironics would think that way. And you pretty much nailed it, when you went on thinking out loud, Scarlet. The 30 day average is ALL that is of any interest whatsoever to the provider of the medical equipment -- the DME. That first month or so of compliance is the only figure Medicare and insurance companies are interested in. So that's the only figure DMEs are interested in.

I was extremely disappointed with Respironics when they came out with their M machines, for not showing daily data. ResMed had been showing daily/weekly/monthly data in the LCD of many of their machines for years. Respironics had a second chance to add that (daily) when they came out more recently with their new Philips Respironics System One machines. But they didn't. They still kept it showing just weekly and monthly averages. Pitiful.

If anything should make if crystal clear to those of us who like to understand and follow our treatment through data from the machines, exactly what we really are to Respironics -- a DROP in the BUCKET, a TINY MINORITY, a BLIP, FEW and FAR BETWEEN, not worth giving a second thought to -- it is that. That they didn't add "daily" results to their "Smart Data" results.

We are too few in numbers to matter one whit, compared to the vast numbers of "just show me how to turn it on, that's all I want to know" cpap users out there in the world. Most cpap users couldn't care less about finding out ANYthing about their treatment. They just want to feel better and they want to leave it ALL up to the health care "professionals." They don't want to learn one thing about OSA or about their own CPAP treatment. They just want it to "work." And if they don't feel better or if it's "too hard to do", they quit. Hundreds of thousands of cpap machines go to those people. Many, many times more machines than would ever be bought by people who would take an active interest in monitoring their own treatment.

The manufacturers read this message board. Respironics certainly knows how we feel about seeing data to monitor our own treatment. Respironics even took a step in the right direction at one time (from our narrow point of view.. lol ) by putting out Encore Viewer software -- "for the patient." That's apparently changed since Philips bought Respironics.

All the manufacturers care about is keeping their REAL customers (DMEs and doctors) happy. Daily results wouldn't matter one bit to doctors or DMEs because that's not what they'd ever want to look at. Can you imagine a doctor or DME saying, "Oh, and I'll take a look at your results every morning to see how it's going for you."

If I were not going to use software, I'd go with a manufacturer like ResMed who provides the DAILY results numbers in their machines' LCD windows along with the weekly/monthly averages. Without software, I'd want a machine where you can see the overnight results easily.

Excellent reply, rested gal! What kills me is that if and when the insurance company wants my compliance data, the way it works for me is they'd ask me to mail in or drop off the smart card. The patient (me) is the only one who's ever going to look at the machine display!

Thanks for the replies. I have to get a Respironics M Series Pro because I assume I can use my present heated humidifier with it, otherwise I'd be open to other machines.

One more question: I've seen mention of the Encore Pro 1.8 software. If it's not the same as the Encore Viewer, would it work with the M Series Pro machine?

Yes, that's what I use with my machine.

carolaz wrote: One more question: I've seen mention of the Encore Pro 1.8 software. If it's not the same as the Encore Viewer, would it work with the M Series Pro machine?

Encore Pro is the doctor or DME use softer. Used to be available to patients but not now.

Encore Viewer is the patient use software. Simpler. Doesn't have all the DME stuff that you don't need. Not as problematic to install and use.

The reports that are generated are pretty much the same. Though with Encore Pro you can used Skinner's Analyzer program that pulls out a little more data. The Analyzer program won't work with Encore Viewer.

Both will work with the data from the smart card from your M Series Pro.