Please set me straight -- CPAP Smart Card or SD Card ?

I have an M Series right now and tried using the SmartCard with a generic reader (an SMC 3310) - it does not work. The reader sees that there is a card inserted, but it looks empty. Also, EncorePro 1.8 does not see the reader at all, even though it was properly installed and working.

I'm actually about to do the opposite of what you're thinking. Since my M Series BiPAP Auto is a rental which is only about 10 days old, I think I'm going to return it and buy a System One BiPAP Auto machine which is not yet widely available, but can be special ordered. I'm willing to wait to read my data until I can either get a copy of EncorePro 2.1 (somewhere, I don't know where!) or until EncoreViewer comes out for it. The price my DME is charging my insurance for the M Series is about 3x what the PR will cost to buy, so given my co-pay and deductible still unpaid this year, I will end up coming out ahead on the whole deal...

What do you guys and gals think? Should I go for the PR BiPAP Auto? Oh, BTW, I'm a total tech head and yearn for the latest and greatest, so I must confess that this is heavily influencing my thinking!

falvesjr wrote:What do you guys and gals think? Should I go for the PR BiPAP Auto?

You are nuckin futs...

falvesjr wrote:Oh, BTW, I'm a total tech head and yearn for the latest and greatest, so I must confess that this is heavily influencing my thinking!

Have you heard about the bird in the bush?

1putt wrote: Can any of the knowledgeable forum users confirm or refute the assumptions above?
Will a generic smart-card reader work with the M Series card and software / drivers? If so which models have been tested?
Is Encore Pro available to mere affected users or only specialists?
Is Encore Pro available at a reasonable price than what I'm told (around $600).

1. Yes. The Mako Infineer D3500 works well and costs about $50. http://www.mako-tech.com/pands/reader_sol/dt3500.cfm
2. It is sold only to professionals. Key word is "sold".
3. Check your PMs.

GumbyCT wrote:

falvesjr wrote:What do you guys and gals think? Should I go for the PR BiPAP Auto?

You are nuckin futs...

Why? Do you think that the M Series is better than the new PR?

falvesjr wrote:

GumbyCT wrote:

falvesjr wrote:What do you guys and gals think? Should I go for the PR BiPAP Auto?

You are nuckin futs...

Why? Do you think that the M Series is better than the new PR?

The PR offers some nice advantages over the M series. I work for a DME, and according to the inservice that I recieved from Philips Respironics, these are those advantages:

1. CFLEX+ - provides pressure relief on inspiration and experation
2. Data - Much more detailed information, and it can now recognise periodic breathing, which the m-series simply cannot do. And according to product support, they are working on releasing a version of encore reader that supports the PR machine.
3. Active Humidity Control - The m series control knob simply changed the heat of the hot plate in the machine, and frequently caused "rain out". This new humidifier monitors room temperature and room humidity levels, and adjusts the relative humidity delivered to the user, preventing rainout caused by changes in ambient temperature. Also, the new design greatly reduces the chances of moisture making its way into the CPAP machine.
4. Quieter - The motor sounds that can be heard on the M series when you breath in and out have dampened to where they are no longer audible, making the machine much easier to get used to.

5. Data storage - Data is stored on the SD card, but it is also stored on the machine itself, so in case of a bad SD card, or SD card failure, you simply put a different SD card into the machine, and it downloads the stored data onto the new SD card.

The machine itself has only been out for about a month, so I have not formed my own opinion about it, but I wanted to share with you what the manufacturer is telling DMEs and Dr offices.

Thanks for the info, DME_RT.

I've been doing a little research too and the PR indeed looks better to me, at least on paper... Besides, I'm just starting treatment, so I think that given the opportunity, I should get the latest equipment available because it's not something I'm going to be trading every year. I know that right now it may be tough getting the software to monitor my treatment, but like I said previously, I'm willing to wait a little while.

At this point, I'm just waiting for confirmation from my DME that I can return the rental with no problems. Given that, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go for the PR BiPAP Auto!

DME_RT wrote:The PR offers some nice advantages over the M series. I work for a DME, and according to the inservice that I recieved from Philips Respironics,

Just another Driveby DME? Or is this some marketing ploy by PR? Just odd the very first post is pushing a new product? If you want to market something include the user software with the machine purchase, not months after the fact. Do the new users know there is NO WAY to update the software online when the bugs show up? Really!!

DME_RT wrote

5. Data storage - Data is stored on the SD card, but it is also stored on the machine itself, so in case of a bad SD card, or SD card failure, you simply put a different SD card into the machine, and it downloads the stored data onto the new SD card.

What you are suggesting would be a remarkable attitude and design change in Respironics machine recording and reporting. Since you, as a DME, are the real customer of Respironics, would you please contact a technically knowledgeable Respironics rep and ask a few questions:

1) What size(s) of SD cards are supported by the PR-1? plus are SDHC cards supported and, if supported, what is the maximum capacity?
2) Since an equivalent sized internal memory would be required to store the data to refresh a "bad SD card", what, specifically, is the size of the internal machine memory?
3) If, in reality, the internal memory is not large enough to refresh the entire contents of a "bad SD card", what subset of data, if any, is available to refresh the "bad SD card"?

I have a few more technical questions on this subject but lets go with these for the time being. Thanks.

PS: Both my newest digital camera (Canon) and my wife's car navigation system (TomTom) support SDHC cards and 16GB SDHC cards are now in both. Both were purchased more than 1 1/2 years before the latest PR-1 announcement.

DME_RT wrote:.....And according to product support, they are working on releasing a version of encore reader that supports the PR machine.....

5. Data storage - Data is stored on the SD card, but it is also stored on the machine itself, so in case of a bad SD card, or SD card failure, you simply put a different SD card into the machine, and it downloads the stored data onto the new SD card.....

I can also confirm that PR is working a patient version of the software. No release date yet, but it certainly is in the works now.

Regarding the data storage... I can confirm that is how it works. I have inserted other SD cards and downloaded a backup of all the data from the internal storage.
Any SD card (I've put into it) in a Fat 32 format seems to work just fine.

cinco777 wrote: 1) What size(s) of SD cards are supported by the PR-1? plus are SDHC cards supported and, if supported, what is the maximum capacity?
2) Since an equivalent sized internal memory would be required to store the data to refresh a "bad SD card", what, specifically, is the size of the internal machine memory?
3) If, in reality, the internal memory is not large enough to refresh the entire contents of a "bad SD card", what subset of data, if any, is available to refresh the "bad SD card"?

I can confirm that SDHC cards work! I just did it on 16GB card. That's the largest I have here. So have no idea what the maximum capacity would be.

I've never seen a spec from PR on the internal machine memory. PR said it was greatly increased over previous models (whatever that means).

From what I have seen... as long as you have not reset the machine, all the data comes over.

socalmonkey wrote

Regarding the data storage... I can confirm that is how it works. I have inserted other SD cards and downloaded a backup of all the data from the internal storage

What is the total file size of the data that you downloaded? Was it really ALL the data recorded on the SD card for the just completed sleep session or sleep sessions, or was it just all the data that was in the machine? Big difference! For example, was the amount of data downloaded > 512MB, a rather small SD card these days? When you download, how are you determining how much data was downloaded and if that was the same amount of data that had been written to the prior, let's call it the "bad" SD card, even though the prior SD card was OK when it was removed? Without any EP or EV software support, determining what data constitutes "all" is questionable.

I am still waiting to hear the size of the internal memory.

cinco777 wrote:What is the total file size of the data that you downloaded? Was it really ALL the data recorded on the SD card for the just completed sleep session or sleep sessions, or was it just all the data that was in the machine? Big difference! For example, was the amount of data downloaded > 512MB, a rather small SD card these days? When you download, how are you determining how much data was downloaded and if that was the same amount of data that had been written to the prior, let's call it the "bad" SD card, even though the prior SD card was OK when it was removed? Without any EP or EV software support, determining what data constitutes "all" is questionable.

I can't completely answer you question, because I now reset my machine everyday. But before that I had a week worth of data and I inserted two different cards and it copied all the same data over. The time stamps on the files were exactly the same data. I would go an additional night and then dump it to a fresh card. And it was the previous data plus the last nights. This appears to be all the data.

Here is a sample of how the data is stored.

SocalMonkey wrote

Here is a sample of how the data is stored

Be aware that a Windows file listing that displays sizes, types of files, etc., is not 100% accurate.

For example, two days ago, I decided to create a backup of an instructional CD provided with my Father-in-laws Cadillac CTS. The windows file systems showed about a dozen files as Audio files (*.cda), all with a reported size of 1KB. The Windows Properties showed that the CD (700MB capacity) was full. Of course, none of the cda files was playable as they weren't really cda audio files of a type that ITunes or anyother CD music player would play - they are likely a Cadillac proprietary format. I have learned that this kind of result is common for data that is "unknown" to Windows. In your case, Windows said that the filetype for some files was Unix exe. I don't think that is the data type of the file.

cinco777 wrote:Be aware that a Windows file listing that displays sizes, types of files, etc., is not 100% accurate.

For example, two days ago, I decided to create a backup of an instructional CD provided with my Father-in-laws Cadillac CTS. The windows file systems showed about a dozen files as Audio files (*.cda), all with a reported size of 1KB. The Windows Properties showed that the CD (700MB capacity) was full. Of course, none of the cda files was playable as they weren't really cda audio files of a type that ITunes or anyother CD music player would play - they are likely a Cadillac proprietary format. I have learned that this kind of result is common for data that is "unknown" to Windows. In your case, Windows said that the filetype for some files was Unix exe. I don't think that is the data type of the file.

Cinco,

The listing from SocalMonkey is from a Mac, not Windows. But yes, the file types listed don't necessarily have anything to do with the actual file contents, just what the Mac thinks they might be based on file extension and some header info. My bet is that all the files from the PR System One (or just about any machine) are in plaint text format and can be read with a text editor such as TextEdit on the Mac, or Notepad on the PC. They may even be delimited files and may be in a grid if opened in Excel or some such. But these are just my (educated/computer nerd) guesses. Maybe SocalMonkey can clarify what format the files are actually in.

Cheers,
F

falvesjr wrote

My bet is that all the files from the PR System One (or just about any machine) are in plaint text format and can be read with a text editor such as TextEdit on the Mac, or Notepad on the PC. They may even be delimited files and may be in a grid if opened in Excel or some such. But these are just my (educated/computer nerd) guesses.

I do not have an SD card with data from a PR-1 and, therefore, have not had the opportunity to analyze and try to determine the format of the stored files and data contained within. The SD card's predecessor, the SmartCard, is not decipherable via Notepad or any text editor, nor is it openable with any readability by Excel as it is a binary (*.bin file extension) file (32KB size).

I suspect, like the Smartcard, that the SD card files are binary files whose format is only "knowable" to Respironics software, currently only EP 2.1.

I would love to be proven wrong as that would allow some of us the opportunity to use the SD as source for our own charting programs, bypassing EncorePro and EncoreViewer.

cinco777 wrote: I do not have an SD card with data from a PR-1 and, therefore, have not had the opportunity to analyze and try to determine the format of the stored files and data contained within. The SD card's predecessor, the SmartCard, is not decipherable via Notepad or any text editor, nor is it openable with any readability by Excel as it is a binary (*.bin file extension) file (32KB size).

I suspect, like the Smartcard, that the SD card files are binary files whose format is only "knowable" to Respironics software, currently only EP 2.1.

I would love to be proven wrong as that would allow some of us the opportunity to use the SD as source for our own charting programs, bypassing EncorePro and EncoreViewer.

Cinco,

You may very well be right! I think that the M Series files being unreadable by "normal" software *may* be because of the fact it's stored on a SmartCard. SmartCards are meant to be a "secure" environment and the files may well be encrypted by default. On an SD Card, Respironics would have to explicitly encrypt the files before writing to the card or generate them in a proprietary format (more likely). Besides restricting easy access to the data, I don't see any reason to do either of those things as all of this data can be easily stored in plain text. I guess SocalMonkey can check for us. I have ordered a new PR System One BiPAP Auto machine with humidifier and will investigate the data myself as soon as it comes. I'll post back with my own findings then. For now, we'll have to wait and see what SocalMonkey has to say...