Apneas during Meditation/Guided Imagery?

Hey everyone. I just started with my new therapist a few weeks ago to continue my quest to conquer my anxiety/panic issues. Our personalities mesh much better than me and my previous therapist.

As homework, she had me make a list of affirmations of how I want to be and think. Last night she talked me through some guided imagery/hypnosis to try and reinforce those affirmations. However, I felt as if my body was resisting the relaxation. I have beat it into my head so much that I can't relax my body too much without my CPAP, that I think my body or mind was resisting. I was sitting in a slightly reclined chair with my feet on an ottoman.

When it was all over about twenty minutes later, I felt my mind was a bit more relaxed but my body was jittery!

Can you have apnea/hypopnea events during meditation or hypnosis?
Was this just a mental issue or could it have been physical?

What do you guys think?

I used to do shiatsu massage and some of my clients would slip into a total relaxed state and - stop breathing.

When you are in that kind of super relaxed meditative state you are very close to the sleep state.

Maybe next time you bring your cpap machine and put it on because it gives you a sense of security so you can relax deeper into the relaxation state.

I don't think it is possible to have an OBSTRUCTIVE apnea during meditation/guided imagery, at least not without being fully aware of it. Choking is just too painful. I don't know if you could call an episode of not trying to breathe during meditation a central apnea.

BlackSpinner wrote:I used to do shiatsu massage and some of my clients would slip into a total relaxed state and - stop breathing.

When you are in that kind of super relaxed meditative state you are very close to the sleep state.

Maybe next time you bring your cpap machine and put it on because it gives you a sense of security so you can relax deeper into the relaxation state.

That's very interesting. I really felt like I was breathing very shallow, which is just the opposite of what she wanted me to do. I'll ask her if I can bring the machine next time.

PST wrote:I don't think it is possible to have an OBSTRUCTIVE apnea during meditation/guided imagery, at least not without being fully aware of it. Choking is just too painful. I don't know if you could call an episode of not trying to breathe during meditation a central apnea.

It definitely wasn't an obstructive apnea, but I have a feeling I was having multiple hypopneas. I have severe apnea so I wouldn't doubt it.

tattooyu wrote: That's very interesting. I really felt like I was breathing very shallow, which is just the opposite of what she wanted me to do. I'll ask her if I can bring the machine next time.

Just keep in mind that using it during non-sleeping time might impact the data that comes off of it when you take it back for a follow-up with your sleep doctor.

Yes I have apneas during deep relaxation/meditation this however does not seem to be a problem if I am thin.
Yes I am one of those that gets a lot better with weight loss but that's another story.

I'm going to suggest that I bring my machine next time. It might help me a lot!

tattooyu wrote:...Can you have apnea/hypopnea events during meditation or hypnosis?...

I do.

I can't imagine meditating with my cpap! I guess forget about meditation! What do you think CarbonMan?

Incidentally, I'm backpacking my cpap 15 miles one way to camp overnight on Cumberland Island, Ga. next weekend!

Regards,

Georgio

Georgio wrote:...backpacking my cpap 15 miles one way to camp overnight on Cumberland Island, Ga. next weekend!

Wow, beautiful place...hope it warms up a bit, it's cold in the mornings here in Atlanta! Tell us how you managed with your xPAP...loved the pics of your last tent setup . Newbies are intimidated by camping with xPAP, details help. You and carbonman seem to be our camping xPAP experts!

Meditation is about calming the mind but being fully conscious of what's happening around you therefore I don't see how you could have an apnea. If you drift off to sleep during the meditation you would go into an unconsciousness state which may trigger an apnea because it would mean you have fallen asleep and are no longer meditating. I mediatate regulary but never lying down because that can make me drift into sleep, especially if I'm tired. Meditation is one of the best things we can do in life !

I did. That's how I figured out I had apnea to start with. Some people think it is weird, but I usually meditate while lying propped up in bed. And I'm pretty sure it was an obstructive apnea. It went like this:

I would be doing measured breathing, and start relaxing every joint in my body (I always start at my feet and work my way up.) Then, by the time I get up to my head, I'm feeling quite weightless and very relaxed. I would continue with the deep measured breathing. Then, suddenly I would feel this sort of... tugging in my mid-section. It was the sensation of my diaphragm pulling down and my lungs sort of imploding because no air was getting in. At this point, I would come back to complete alertness and take a breath. I could tell from the sensation that my throat was closed. I might experience this two or three times during a session before giving up.

I described it to someone who, incidentally has sleep apnea, and joked that I must have 'awake apnea.' My friend suggested maybe I was just dozing off, and was entering an apnea just as I was falling asleep. But I feel sure that was not the case. I never felt sleepy.

So--take that for what you will. But there is no doubt in MY mind that apnea is possible during meditation.

Cassandra

Georgio wrote:I can't imagine meditating with my cpap! I guess forget about meditation! What do you think CarbonMan? Georgio

I find it interesting. I have been thinking about this since he posted it.
I am a bit skeptical that you could have an apnea while meditating,
especially if you are sitting up. I have not encountered many people
that meditate lying down.
....BUT....I guess anything is possible.

I have practiced meditation. I was taught a form of meditation
in conjunction w/my CBT. The SOLO techinque that I am learning and
practicing from the Krakow book is a form of meditation/mind settling.
I do, infact, practice that w/my mask on......the end result of that
being, I want to be asleep.

It is good food for thought.
It is cause to expand your horizons.

If it works for you......go for it.

Carbonman, I may be calling what I do the wrong thing. I don't have a good mental definition of 'meditation.'

I've long time suffered from obsessive thoughts and restless limbs. About 20 years ago when I was a teenager I had a therapist (a psychologist) teach me those relaxation techniques to try to calm and relax myself. I'm really not sure if that qualifies as meditation. Sometimes it works better than others!

Cassandra

Cassandra wrote: I would be doing measured breathing, and start relaxing every joint in my body (I always start at my feet and work my way up.) Then, by the time I get up to my head, I'm feeling quite weightless and very relaxed. I would continue with the deep measured breathing. Then, suddenly I would feel this sort of... tugging in my mid-section. It was the sensation of my diaphragm pulling down and my lungs sort of imploding because no air was getting in. At this point, I would come back to complete alertness and take a breath. I could tell from the sensation that my throat was closed. I might experience this two or three times during a session before giving up.

I described it to someone who, incidentally has sleep apnea, and joked that I must have 'awake apnea.' My friend suggested maybe I was just dozing off, and was entering an apnea just as I was falling asleep. But I feel sure that was not the case. I never felt sleepy.

That's very interesting, and it makes sense, doesn't it? We experience OSA while we sleep, instead of when we're awake, because muscles that lift the roof of the pharynx as we breathe relax. Apparently a really effective technique of relaxing muscles can duplicate that. Fortunately, it doesn't pass unnoticed.

I wonder if Cassandra's observation has the seeds of a diagnostic or screening test. It is almost certainly the case that OSA goes undiagnosed way too often. Anesthesiologists who worry about this are debating whether to screen for OSA with a questionnaire, so they can take extra precautions with those who probably have OSA, or even if they should recommend delaying surgery for some patients until they can have a sleep study and start treatment, if necessary. We all know how expensive those are, and how long it can take to schedule them in some locations. There are other ideas out there like home PSG and analysis of snoring sound. It would be interesting, though, if there were a way of screening patients by talking them through a relaxation technique and see if their throats close. I suspect that this takes too long to learn and not everyone can do it, but it's an idea. Let's see, can I google how to file for a patent?