I hate my new 420e!!!

I just received my new 420e yesterday. I certainly was looking forward to be able to monitor my therapy, since I've just been using a Remstar plus so far. I got the machine set up fine, got the software installed, and got my computer able to communicate with the machine no problem. I decided to set it to CPAP mode with my prescribed pressure of 10 cm. I wanted to track the effectiveness of my titrated pressure the first few nights.

So far everything was great! That is, until I went to bed and turned the machine on. I have read several posts on this forum stating how quiet this machine is. Well, that's not the case with my machine. It is at least three to five times louder than my Remstar plus. It's horrible! When I turn on my Remstar plus, and I use earplugs by the way, I can hardly hear the machine at all. Just a very quiet constant whoosh of air, almost imperceptible.

With the 420e it's actually louder with my earplugs in. There is a distinct difference between inhalation and exhalation noise. The inhalation is quieter with a slight high pitched whine, but the exhalation is really bad. Every time I exhale I hear a low rumbling sound, almost like distant thunder. It's quite loud and very unnerving. I tried for about two a half hours to go to sleep and could not. Eventually I had to switch back to my Remstar plus so I could get some sleep.

If anyone has any suggestions, please, please respond to this. I really don't want to be stuck with an $800 paperweight. One thing I did notice. The hour meter on my 420e had 17 hours on it when I got it. I don't know if this is normal or not? Maybe this is testing by the manufacturer?

I was so looking forward to this machine, I've heard so many great things about it. A few people have even said how much quieter it is then their Remstar. Something just seems wrong to me.

Thanks,
BP

Something doesn't sound right. They do test the machines and mine may have had that many hours on it. I only have the 420G and there is almost no noise coming from the machine (only from my end of the hose & mask).

Maybe a local CPAP group would give you the opportunity of comparing it to other 420E's. Good luck.

BP, I may be dead wrong about this, but I don't think any brandnew machine would come with 17 hours on it already.

Did you get your machine from a local DME? Or did you order it from an online store?

I never found any machine I've used to be really quiet. Every machine I've tried has had its own type of noise.

The 420E auto I had made a definite revving up and down whine sound as I breathed in and out.

Both REMstar Autos (one without C-Flex, one with) made a whine sound. The C-Flex machine was louder, with a lot more variation in the particular sounds it made - some nights starting out sounding like a sick cow.

The Spirit auto also had a noticeable varying whine/whoosh motor sound.

The three bi-level machines I've tried all had their own "breathing with you" sounds which were to be expected:
Respironics BiPAP Pro, ResMed VPAP III ST-A, and ResMed VPAP III.

I got used to all of them with their distinct sounds, but can certainly understand why some people would be annoyed to the point of no sleep by whatever the sound emitted by any particular machine.

Back to your machine.... I'd really question whatever store I bought it from as to why it came with 17 hours already on it. I'd wonder if it was a machine that had been used as a demo, or perhaps if it had been turned back in by someone else who objected to its noise.

Besides the difference in each person's noise perception, and what sounds particularly bother someone, I believe there are sometimes variations in "sound" from different machines of exactly the same brand and model. It can be Luck of the draw which one a person receives from the same manufacturer's assembly line.

No, I'd not describe any machine I've tried so far as "quiet." Quiet to me means no noise from it at all, or at most, such a low steady swoosh as to be barely discernible.

Back to your machine.... I'd really question whatever store I bought it from as to why it came with 17 hours already on it. I'd wonder if it was a machine that had been used as a demo, or perhaps if it had been turned back in by someone else who objected to its noise.

Yes, what is commonly called a "refurb".
The manufacturer gets it back, fires it up "hey it works" and ships it as a refurb. That's how it works with many computer component manufacturers and probably with CPAP too. They don't have to sleep with the machine and to them there is really nothing wrong with the machine.
Now, what the DME does with it whan they receive it is another thing.

BP

I have been using my 420e for over 18 months daily, near the floor with their 6ft hose in the auto mode and it was quiet.

I now have it on the night table 2 feet from my head using a 4ft hose I converted to adapt to using the little PB pressure hose AND like you changed the mode to CPAP AND run at 10cm. Can't hear it. I have very good hearing by the way. I also have a Remstar Plus as a backup and find that the 420 is almost as quiet.

You must have a bad apple, see about returning it.

Kermit

First of all, yes, 17 hours on a "brand new" machine? You've got to be kidding. That sounds like either a returned machine or a refurbished one, used in any event. I'd take it back immediately and get another and see if it's the type of machine of just that machine.

Second, you didn't try a new mask when you started this machine, did you? I find my Remstar Auto is literally silent. The only way you know it's on is the noise coming from the exhaust ports on the mask and any inhalation/exhalation noise coming from the mask. And different masks are more quiet than others with the same machine hooked to them. The machine itself is literally silent. Did I just get lucky with that?

I agree with the others -I think your machine is not new. 17 hours? NOT.

The 420E, used WITHOUT a humidifier, is louded than when used with a humidifier. Mine is absolutely silent -I don't hear a thing.

I'd be going back to your supplier and raising Cain.

Machines are commonly burned in/tested by the manufacturer. Years ago, for example Respironics would test every machine for at least 50 hours. I saw the test rooms personally. These tests have been reduced somewhat but the idea that this machine is a refurbished unit is completely unsupported by any facts presented in this thead.

Ever buy a care with zero miles on it? Neither have I.

Thanks everyone for your input. Actually, I bought it right here from the good folks at CPAP.com. This machine should NOT be a refurb. It should be new! I've tried calling them back, but I can't get through right now. I also tried going online to Puritan Bennett, but their web site seems to be down, just just my luck. I wanted to ask them how many hours should be on a new machine.

I just now rechecked the hours, and now after struggling to sleep for almost two hours last night it now has 18 hours and 51 minutes.

rested gal, I guess you could describe it as a revving up and whining down as I breathe. But my Remstar plus is much quieter, with my earplugs in, I certainly expected to 420e to be at least as quiet. Especially based on the input from this forum.

I need to get in touch with them and find out about the hours. It's all kind of depressing. Since it's such a popular machine I probably wouldn't have too much trouble selling it, if it comes to that. Albeit at a discount.

Thanks,
BP

Ever buy a care with zero miles on it? Neither have I.

No, but if it had 1,000 miles on it, I wouldn't accept it as new.

Do the math. 17 x 60 (mins) is 1,020 minutes. If it took that long to bench test this machine, there had to be something wrong with it and it eventually got fixed or it is used. Common sense. You don't need to test something for 50 hours to figure out it works.

I think to ask the posters of this thread to accept that is normal procedure is a joke! I'm offended, personally.

Lori, no I didn't change masks. Still using my activa. And I have the exact same response with my Remstar plus. The loudest thing are the exhalation ports, which is no big deal. With 420e the sound of the exhalation ports is drowned out mostly by the sound when I exhale. As I stated in the first post it's kind of a rumbling sound, like distant thunder.

I have to say the machine did not look used when I got it. The manufacturer's box had been opened, but that's probably standard procedure to inspect and set pressure etc.

Hopefully I can get to the bottom of this. From the way Will and Kermit have described how quiet their machines are, there must be something wrong. Not sure what that is, but something.

-BP

BP,

My Remstar is silent, too.

Just got through to someone at cpap.com, they are going to email me instructions on shipping it back to them for an inspection. He said he wasn't sure how many hours the machine should have had on it. I sure hope the inspection turns up something, and I don't get the dreaded "It's operating within normal parameters", speach.

-BP

Good luck, BP. Keep us all posted.

OK, I've had the opportunity now to do extensive side-by-side daytime testing of both machines.

With the mask off, and holding my hand over the part of the mask that generally sits on your face, there's not much difference between the noise of these two machines. The 420e is slightly louder, but it's really not all that much. So at this point I don't think there's a problem with the machine itself. There's no vibration, no grinding or anything when I listen to the machine itself, etc.

With the mask on, that's when the story changes. The 420e definitely has much more of a, as rested gal put it, "The 420E auto I had made a definite revving up and down whine sound as I breathed in and out.". My Remstar really doesn't do this at all.

For some reason unknown to me, the noise from the Remstar seems to be focused at the machine itself, whereas with the 420e the noise seems to be focused down the hose at the mask. What this translates to, is that when I use my earplugs with the Remstar, the noise from the machine for the most part disappears. With the 420e, the earplugs seem to magnify the sound, so that the exhalation noise magnifies into that rumbling, thunder type sound. I did this test over and over again, and it yielded the same result. I have no idea why this happens. Both machines are just creating air pressure, I don't see how the noise could be transmitted differently, but the evidence says it does.

The question now is what to do? If I send it back, I'm going to have to pay shipping to their repair facility, and it sounds like they'll probably send it on to Puritan Bennett's repair facility. And based on my current evidence, I don't think they're going to find anything wrong with it.

I think I might have to try and get used to it. I definitely want to find out about the 17 hours, but my guess is, being a medical device, there may be more extensive testing. 17 hours is approximately 2 nights worth of testing, so maybe that's the guideline. But I should be able to find that out from Puritan Bennett.

Anyway, any additional suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

-BP