Anyone else heard about ResMed stopping Internet sales?

First, let me say that I am glad to hear that Resmed is not going to stop internet sales of their products.
Second, in reply to leejgbt, let me say that the problems you listed as far as patients non-compliance is in my opinion far more due to DME's and other so-called sleep specialists than to the sale of cpap equipment and supplies via the internet. That has been my own experience and I am fairly confident to say the experience of a lot of other cpap users. As leejgbt did, I would like to list some problems I see as a patient...
We are not told about the difference in machines and all to often peddled the cheapest machine available. We SHOULD be given a choice by the DME.
In my case I was only told how to turn on and off the machine.
The DME held a mask up to my face and said this one looks like it will fit and then sent home with it. It did not fit and when I tried to return it was told
that I would get used to it.
At a pressure of 16 I was not even told about things such as C-Flex or EPR and when I told the DME that I was having problems exhaling was told to just get used to it.
I never received a follow-up call to see how my progress was.
When I finally consulted a Pulmonologist who was also certified in sleep medicine I was told to go back to the DME and ask for a machine with exhalation relief. The DME promptly told me that the Pulmonologist did not know what she was talking about. At this point I left the machine with the DME and got a copy of my prescription and purchased one via the internet.
As far as insurance providers, most of the people who you end up talking to about cpap equipment have no idea what sleep apnea is and know nothing about its treatment. My insurance provider has never once asked about my compliance and has already paid for the equipment.
You may say that my experience was the exception but as I read this forum I believe my experience to be the normal.
By the way I receive follow up email from the internet provider regularly telling me that if I have questions about my machine I can contact them.
As I see it, the internet providers are NOT the real problem.

WOW.....

As a long time cpap user, you better wake up.

I'm not going to repeat what Wulfman said.

The sleep industry is a money driven profit center.

Look at the marketing propaganda for the new Respironic's systemone.
They are only concerned w/their main customer....the DME.

I was herded into a:
1. accredited DME company
2. that had a RT on staff
3. received a mask....no fitting
4. no idea what the relationship to the doc is/was.
5. did not bother to check on mask replacement
6. fought for and received an efficacy data capable machine
7. got pissed off, educated and became

my own best therapist.

leejgbt wrote: The intent of manufacturers like ResMed, Respironics, etc. was to remove their products from the internet in hopes that this prevents their products from being sold without an RX and that patients with OSA would use DME companies whose goal is to help patients comply with their therapy needs. The intent was never to gouge the patients for more money. Increased compliance was the ultimate goal.

This is a crock of the familiar brown substance.

Lee, thank you for your input. Yours sounds like the IDEAL local DME supply company. Unfortunately, there are NOT all that many such as yours around and available to us!

I am on Medicare so I have the option of virtually every local DME supplier. I am near a reasonable good size town so there are a good many local DME suppliers to choose from. UNFORTUNATELY, there is still that 20% copay w/Medicare. I have good secondary insurance that picks up that 20% copay from Medicare. BUT - that also reduces my local DME options to just 3. *sigh*

My first local DME supplier has an RRT on staff. Probably even more than one since this company services a good part of at least 3 states. The branch reasonably available to me has one RRT who covers more than one branch office. This company does NOT carry mask "parts", only the mask WITH headgear. Patients are NOT given the option of mask w/o headgear at 3 months, only a new headgear AND mask every 6 months. This company takes up to 3 weeks to provide a mask part when the patient forces the issue and provides a printout w/Medicare replacement schedule AND code numbers. The RRT I worked with was either less than truthful or did NOT know the equipment she was providing (a Resmed S8 Elite w/EPR). This branch did NOT provide the proper "facilities" to do a proper mask fitting (no where to lay down except the carpeted floor). When the manufacturer issued a Recall this company would NOT handle the Recall when I was instructed directly by Resmed to return my Resmed S8 Autoset Vantage to this company to handle the replacement. I hadn't purchased the Vantage from them so they would NOT handle it DESPITE Resmed's policy to reimburse them regardless where it was originally purchased. There was more but this gives you an idea. Obviously, I did NOT stay w/this local DME supplier.

There IS a local DME supplier that provides ONLY respiratory and sleep equipment and services. UNFORTUNATELY, whilst the are contracted w/Medicare, they are not contracted w/my secondary insurance. *sigh* I've talked to this company's various staff members. They have MORE than one RRT on staff despite being a much smaller company than the supplier I am with. And their RRTs KNOW both sleep and respiratory and know it well. They KNOW their equipment and if it is something new to them they LEARN it and learn it well and quickly. They don't rely on just the Quick SetUp Guide as that first local DME supplier I used.

RRTs do NOT necessarily KNOW sleep therapy w/o additional training and experience. Respiratory and sleep are NOT the same fields.

I am happy w/my current local DME supplier. They have been very good to me and I have no complaints. xPAP compliance would be DRAMATICALLY higher if all local DME suppliers were as thorough and conscientious as yours. The sad truth is not all are. Study after study has PROVEN success is heavily influenced by proper education, advice, support, etc. yet the sleep profession has yet to step up to that responsibility. Not just local DME suppliers but starting w/the sleep doctors and sleep labs as well.

There ARE good online DME suppliers such as cpap.com and others who provide EXCELLENT service, who provide support, who properly set the equipment according to the received prescription, etc. I'm sure there must also be a few who aren't as reliable as they should be.

leejgbt wrote: ... 6. Look for companies that use ONLY auto CPAP devices with compliance monitoring capability. These have ALL the capabilities your physician would prescribe without having to buy a different CPAP. As was mentioned they are all billed as E0601. ...

Wow! Yours has to be the first and only DME supplier that provides "ONLY auto CPAPs" that I've ever heard or read about!!!!!! And what's the "w/compliance monitoring capability" bit? Educated patients could give a rat's rear about "compliance monitoring ability". That has NO VALUE to ANY ONE except to protect the supplier getting paid.

Or are you and I NOT on the same wave length as to just what an auto CPAP device is????? I strongly suspect the latter.

Gil.Ben-Dov wrote:Hi Peppi,

We're glad you were able to find our S8 Vantage at a price which was competitive with lesser brands....

Sincerely,
Gil Ben-Dov

Vice-President Commercial Operations , ResMed Corp.
9001 Spectrum Center Blvd, San Diego, CA 92123

Wow, nothing like starting your first post with good bit of arrogance. At least those "lesser" brands sell the software that allows patients to monitor their treatment.

mdintx wrote:

Gil.Ben-Dov wrote:Hi Peppi,

We're glad you were able to find our S8 Vantage at a price which was competitive with lesser brands....

Sincerely,
Gil Ben-Dov

Vice-President Commercial Operations , ResMed Corp.
9001 Spectrum Center Blvd, San Diego, CA 92123

Wow, nothing like starting your first post with good bit of arrogance.

Everything is a marketing opportunity.

....patient concern.....my @$$.

Ha! Software that is NOT compatible w/their newest offering xPAP series and admitted no big priority to providing a patient software that is.

Stuff it for patient software. I'm perfectly happy w/the professional version software and for those who don't have the professional version but want it - put forth the effort those of us who have it did and FIND where you can buy it. Its available, it just takes a little determination and innovation to find where to buy it. There have been lots of posts in this forum alone on where to purchase the software and the cable reader too.

Gil.Ben-Dov has extended the invitation: if you have problems w/your local DME supplier CONTACT RESMED and make them aware of the problem so that they can try to straighten out the issue w/the local supplier or refuse to sell their devices to them.

Of course you do know I expect, that legitimate internet providers are now REQUIRING prescriptions for machines ( which - as far as I know they have always done). They also require that the doctor's prescription MUST have a pressure setting to which they set the machine before shipping.

Recently, a prescription is now required for masks from online suppliers as well.

The legitimate online suppliers ARE adhering to your requirments about a doctor's prescription for machines and masks!

The internet suppliers are NOT the problem!

I am in Canada and the prices are outrageous from the Providers! In my province we get assistance from the Government and many of us have private extended health insurance. Many don't have extended health coverage and must pay the difference themsleves. That's often more than the machine costs from an online supplier. Many Provinces do not give assistance and some don't even recognize sleep apnea as a health problem.

I am "on my own" as far as the doctor and the Provider is concerned. I was basically told how to turn the machine on and off and what to do about the humidifier. There was no followup from either the doctor or the Provider in 7 years!

I hate to think where I would be without this forum AND the online suppliers!

mdintx wrote:

Gil.Ben-Dov wrote:Hi Peppi,

We're glad you were able to find our S8 Vantage at a price which was competitive with lesser brands....

Sincerely,
Gil Ben-Dov

Vice-President Commercial Operations , ResMed Corp.
9001 Spectrum Center Blvd, San Diego, CA 92123

Wow, nothing like starting your first post with good bit of arrogance. At least those "lesser" brands sell the software that allows patients to monitor their treatment.

Not to mention that automatic algorithms vary tremedously, and all of them are only good for part of the population.
Resmed's A10 autoset algorithm is just as likely to be inferior for some patients as are the algorithms of Resmed's competitors. Let's name them: Respironics' NRAH, which will respond to apneas at higher pressures, Covidien's Sandman Autowhich has the most detailed and informative software of all, and can let the user personalize the pressure at which response to apnea will stop -- and can identify central apneas with 100% certainty. And there's the new Fisher and Paykel auto too.

None is perfect. Each will be the best for part of the population. And terrible for a small group. A sales pitch, ignoring that fact so blatantly is just that: a sales pitch.

"Compliance" is the least of the users' worry. What we need is good therapy. NO BRAND CAN PROMISE GOOD THERAPY TO ALL.
None.

rested gal wrote:

Gil.Ben-Dov wrote:We recently revised our Internet Policies, providing a better experience for shoppers that choose to source our products over the web.

Thank you for participating on this message board, Gil.
You mention recently revised Internet Policies. I wonder... is it now possible for someone who lives in Canda and who has a CPAP prescription to order a ResMed CPAP machine online from cpap.com and have cpap.com ship the machine to the buyer in Canada?

Well? Is it now possible, after that revision?

I too would love to hear your reply, Mr. Ben-Dov. Less than 48 hours ago, I was informed by cpap.com that unfortunately they could not ship Resmed products internationally since they are under contract with Resmed. Has your recent sales policy changed that? Because, you see, cpap.com also informed me that they can however ship any other manufacturer to me.

O.

leejgbt wrote: The intent of manufacturers like ResMed, Respironics, etc. was to remove their products from the internet in hopes that this prevents their products from being sold without an RX and that patients with OSA would use DME companies whose goal is to help patients comply with their therapy needs. The intent was never to gouge the patients for more money. Increased compliance was the ultimate goal.

Which fantasy land do you live in? I got more help from cpapdotcom then from the people who originally sold me my machine.

leejgbt wrote: 3. If the mask fitting takes less than 30 minutes be wary of the skill of the fitter.

Hahahahahahaha ROTFLOL

Who gets more then 20 minutes including filling out the payment forms?

Slinky wrote:Gil.Ben-Dov has extended the invitation: if you have problems w/your local DME supplier CONTACT RESMED and make them aware of the problem so that they can try to straighten out the issue w/the local supplier or refuse to sell their devices to them.

AMEN to that! Brilliant! I like it! That is an area where patient activism could pay off handsomely in the real world with all brands and all DMEs. Formal letters of complaint to manufacturers about specific bad practices at brick-and-mortar DMEs. Yes!

And kudos to Gil. For posting here and clarifying. When the Ford sales rep speaks to me, I expect him to be arrogant about Fords and not to try to sell me a Chevy. I applaud personal belief in products.

And continuing that analogy, if your local Ford dealership mistreats you, writing the Ford corporation is the way to go, even though they are not selling their product directly to you--they are selling to the dealerships.

And that is why when the dealership in your local town is run by crooks, you go to the dealership the next town over. Get a list of dealerships before you go out car-shopping. Likewise, get a list of DMEs your insurance will work with BEFORE you accept a machine from the local crooks, if you are going to go the brick-and-mortar route (or the BM route, as CB might put it. )

We all know that the DMEs are the machine manufacturer's customers, not us. We have to learn to play the game with knowledge of that reality. It's all about the money. Follow the money.

Online DMEs have to have an RT on staff too, don't they? Has anyone had a question on products and not been able to find help at cpap.com's site or over the phone? I haven't. I ALWAYS get help in the FAQs or reviews or over the phone or here at cpaptalk.com, the forum sponsored by MY DME, cpap.com.

The other day, one of my friends told his sleep doc he was going to get his machine over the internet from cpap.com. The doc frowned. But at the next appointment, the doc asked how it went. My friend told him how well it went. The doc asked for the name of the site again so he could write it down to "give to my patients who are fed up with their DMEs." In my opinion, that anecdote sums up the true state of affairs in the industry right there.

jeff

To take your analogy one step further, jeff: If a Ford was known to lose its breaks for some people and not others, making those people more liable to crash into Fords, Chevy's and pedestrians, would you still expect it to be sold like a car without any possible faults?

A medical device is not a regular consumer object. If you buy the wrong one, your health may suffer.

I must have missed Mr. Ben-Dov's invitation, can anyone link to it please?

Slinky, what did Resmed do to the local DME who refused to accept your machine for replacement -- despite Resmed's instructions?
O.

leejgbt wrote: Blah, blah, blah, blah, ...........

Total bullshit.

Nicely written and well thought out, but it still gets you to the wrong conclusion when you start from a bad premise. You have great potential if you reexamine your premises.

CPAP therapy is very individualized. The people who are successful are the ones who educate themselves and make a commitment to their health.

Education doesn't work if delivered one-on-one by a RT or other medical professional. The patient needs exposure to a diverse resource like the patient-members of cpaptalk.com.

Education delivered one-on-one by a RT or other medical professional is an extremely expensive way to educate.

Post all you want to, but what you are proposing will eventually be extinct because it is not effective (poor results) and not efficient (too much $).

Hooray for internet suppliers and internet educators! May your influence expand rapidly!

ozij wrote: . . . To take your analogy one step further, jeff: If a Ford was known to lose its breaks for some people and not others, making those people more liable to crash into Fords, Chevy's and pedestrians, would you still expect it to be sold like a car without any possible faults?
. . . .

Both Fords and Chevy's kill people. They are both imperfect products.

If there are those who believe the evidence is such that it is prudent repeatedly to point to the limitations of one brand while repeatedly ignoring the limitations of other brands, that is, of course, their choice. And if you consider that continuation of my analogy to be balanced and helpful in some way, I trust your judgment on that, though I don't yet see it.

I will always have deep respect for your opinions, ozij, even when I do not fully comprehend them. I DID use a Respironics autobilevel for the first time last night; so I AM widening out in my experience. I'm just too new and inexperienced to be as firm as some about my personal evaluations of algorithmic efficacies. Maybe one day. I admire your passion on the subject.

jeff

I did not say Resmed was a lesser brand. In fact, it was only the Resmed rep. who spoke of lesser brands.

I did put Resmed on the same level as those "lesser" brands by stating that:

Resmed's A10 autoset algorithm is just as likely to be inferior for some patients as are the algorithms of Resmed's competitors.

I also said:

None is perfect. Each will be the best for part of the population. And terrible for a small group. A sales pitch, ignoring that fact so blatantly is just that: a sales pitch.

I do not believe medical devices should be marketed like cars. When a company rep comes here talking about their older model auto as opposed to "lesser brands"I am turned off -- and this had nothing to do with this or that algorithm.

This is not about specific algorithm efficacies. This is about selling medical devices as though they were dishwashers and ignoring the fact they may harm some people. If you knew the car you sold (Ford, Chevy, Kaia, Lexus) lost its breaks consistently for part of the population, would sell it as though it was the best car in the world for everyone?

jnk wrote:And kudos to Gil. For posting here and clarifying. When the Ford sales rep speaks to me, I expect him to be arrogant about Fords and not to try to sell me a Chevy. I applaud personal belief in products

I appluad integrity -

I treated the "Ford" as generic, jeff, not as a substitute for "Resmed".

As for algorithm efficacies on a personal basis: I am actually trying a Resmed and enjoying it tremendously -- I couldn't tolerate the Respironics. Which is neither here nor there in this context .

O.