Why is the industry like this?

roster · Post by **roster** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:11 am

sifr wrote: .......... That got me the head of the department doing my surgery instead, and ultimately a registered letter from the hospital telling me to stop berating their employees.

Very good! I would put that letter in a nice frame and sit it on the shelf with my other trophies.

Did you know that 69% of today's college graduates cannot read and understand a complex book? Read and weep over What Will They Learn by Walter Williams, http://economics.gmu.edu/wew/articles.html .

Degrees, schmgrees.

Silver Pelt · Post by **Silver Pelt** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:09 pm

mattman wrote:
Silver Pelt wrote: This does not benefit consumers, and it certainly does not benefit CPAP.com. They did it because they were forced to do so.
Who benefits? Doctors will get more office visits, because most prescriptions are valid for no more than 1 year. DMEs will get more business because they have harmed one of their most fierce and capable competitors, CPAP.com. Consumers are harmed by this policy; costs go up and the level of inconvenience in making what should be a simple purchase goes up along with them.
Just to clarify that one point - the FDA classified masks and other items as medical devices from the get-go. They've been that way since day 1.

And to even further clarify - there isn't an equipment provider out there (That I've ever come across) that does NOT think it's inane, stupid and totally unncessary that they be treated as such.

Hell, FILTERS are only able to be sold with an Rx. A piece of cotton. Seriously.

The *only* thing is does is raise the burden and cost to whomever is proving the mask for no tangible benefit.

No DME company ever lobbied for it to be a medical device, they were created as such.

mattman

We agree. I didn't say DME's asked for the FDA to hammer cpap.com, I said that DMEs benefited by having a competitor harassed. That's true.

But this is a quibble. The entire system is corrupt and rotten to the core, all because competition is squashed by these insane regulations. Yet there are those who clamor for replacing the present group of thugs and morons with professional thieves: politicians and government bureacrats to examine and boss you around regarding the most minute and private aspects of your life. You think the system stinks now? Wait until it combines the efficiency of the post office with the gentleness of the police - that's what will come of nationalizing health care.

roster · Post by **roster** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:34 pm

Silver Pelt wrote:
.......... The entire system is corrupt and rotten to the core, all because competition is squashed by these insane regulations. Yet there are those who clamor for replacing the present group of thugs and morons with professional thieves: politicians and government bureacrats to examine and boss you around regarding the most minute and private aspects of your life. You think the system stinks now? Wait until it combines the efficiency of the post office with the gentleness of the police - that's what will come of nationalizing health care.

Now you are talking!

blowhard · Post by **blowhard** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:09 am

One day a wise man was asked by his son, why are certain things as they are. The elder father replied: " Son you have to realize that there are many complex answers to all the problems in the world, but to sum it up in one word the older father said 99 out 100 questions of why can be answered with one word and that word is MONEY"!!! (a quote from one of the elder Rockerfellers to his son in the 1920's)
Cheers!!

gasparama · Post by **gasparama** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:15 am

Silver Pelt wrote:
We agree. I didn't say DME's asked for the FDA to hammer cpap.com, I said that DMEs benefited by having a competitor harassed. That's true.

But this is a quibble. The entire system is corrupt and rotten to the core, all because competition is squashed by these insane regulations. Yet there are those who clamor for replacing the present group of thugs and morons with professional thieves: politicians and government bureacrats to examine and boss you around regarding the most minute and private aspects of your life. You think the system stinks now? Wait until it combines the efficiency of the post office with the gentleness of the police - that's what will come of nationalizing health care.

A locally owned DME employee told me that he "voted" for the raising of the minimum advertised price that was forced upon cpap.com. Of course, it was for the good of the patients. I wish I had had the forethought to inquire the name of the organization in which he was voting. Whatever the group is, they probably provided fodder for the lobbying with their "vote".

LinkC · Post by **LinkC** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:24 am

George Carlin wrote:Think how stupid the average person is. Now consider that half the population is even worse...

Georgio · Post by **Georgio** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:11 am

These stories are no longer a suprise to anyone and have become the norm.

It's because our present "Health Care" system was never designed to provide health care, it is designed to maximize profits to appease investors.

raneyday · Post by **raneyday** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:51 pm

unclematt wrote:I had been complaining of sleep problems for 17 years with 7 doctors before my new doctor decided a sleep study might help. The other docs just told me I was depressed.

Sure you were depressed--cuz you weren't sleeping!

Agape=Love · Post by **Agape=Love** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:22 pm

Good topic im glad this is brought up and should be brought up more often. Maybe I could offer some insight from my 15yrs working in the industry.
1. DME Companies - When it comes to CPAP or Sleep therapy DME's do not care about these patients. Nearly all DME companies do not have the knowledge nor care to invest in the knowlege of Sleep Apnea. Why? Because they don't feel there is any profit in it. They are to busy going after oxygen patients, they take on CPAP patients only to please their oxygen referral sources and contract obligations. If you look at margins on oxygen vs. cpap not even close. Go on oxygen and see the diffrence in which the DME company treats you.
2. Physicians - Most Physicians have limited knowledge regarding Sleep Apnea. (as this is rarely taught in there curriculum)Medicine is practiced with exactly that medicine. They treat symptoms when you have high BP you receive BP meds when your blood surgar is abnormal you get diabetic meds when you are depressed they have a med for that etc. etc. (I recommend Dr. Dement's book Promise Of Sleep) he talks about this problem in detail.

I once argued with a Cardiologist about Apnea in his CV patients and tried to explain that yes just air (not a med) would help resolve this. I think he is still confused.

3. Sleep Labs (centers) - Tools are available (Embletta PDS and Respironics PDX) to diagnose and titrate (APSP) patients in their homes for a 3rd of the price of just a sleep lab study. The entire sleep lab community continues to suppress this technology so they can continue their "Gold Standard" money machine.

I once argued with a Cardiologist about Apnea in his CV patients and tried to explain that yes just air (not a med) would help resolve this. I think he is still confused.

Not all of us healthcare providers are evil money mongers. I truly care about this (and can get long winded when speaking about it lol). I spent many nights away from my family to support apnea patients just to get the result we are all hoping for a good nights sleep!

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:33 pm

Agape=Love,

Welcome to the forum.

We like to hear from the "good" ones.

Den

JimIllinois · Post by **JimIllinois** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:45 pm

Before I was diagnosed, I realized sleep centers were a money-machine when I saw that my medical group (the one I've used for 25 years) had built 3 brand new facilities in my area with entire floors devoted to sleep centers, in the past 5 years. At about the same time, I was visiting a friend in the hospital and noticed a new sleep center there as well, in their new wing. Four new centers within 15 miles of my home, all built within a 5 year period.

Money Machine.

roster · Post by **roster** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:02 pm

Thanks for the nice post and welcome as a member.

Agape=Love wrote: .........
I once argued with a Cardiologist about Apnea in his CV patients and tried to explain that yes just air (not a med) would help resolve this. I think he is still confused.

......

Good for you.

Agape=Love wrote: .........

3. Sleep Labs (centers) - Tools are available (Embletta PDS and Respironics PDX) to diagnose and titrate (APSP) patients in their homes for a 3rd of the price of just a sleep lab study. The entire sleep lab community continues to suppress this technology so they can continue their "Gold Standard" money machine.

..........

Absolutely agree!

BTW,
a-ga'-pe may = love,
but a-gape' = full face mask.

Catnapper · Post by **Catnapper** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:41 am

I recently met a man who is an RT who was willing to discuss sleep apnea with me. He was not treating me, just someone I met. He claimed that 95% of his patients were successful with CPAP because he told them they could take the mask off during the night. That was astounding! Anyway I went on to tell him that I knew I was successful because I have the software and read my results and adjusted pressure and so on accordingly. He did not know that patients could get software and although many of his patients asked for that capability, he always told them there was no such thing. You can imagine I gave him an earful about that! He resolved to talk to his rep to get more information after I directed him to that page on cpap.com that showed the software for sale.

Now, that man was sincerely trying to help his patients. He was not trying to sell me equipment for my own use. I believe I convinced him to learn more. I hope I helped him help other people. However, I was sad to see that even someone "trained" and trying to do well is so poorly educated to do the job. He was not stupid or money-grubbing. He just didn't know.

You could say that the rush to get the money allows DMEs to hire improperly trained RTs to serve their clients. You could say that the entire industry needs to be better educated and trained. Perhaps regulation is needed. (I hesitate to suggest that!)

My personal experience is with a local company owned by a man who is an RT and who has been very helpful to me in my pursuit of successful CPAP therapy. However, my first experience with his company was with an RT who was the typical one we read about here who gave me the cheapo equipment, no returns of masks, no help in getting started, etc. I had to fight my way to the owner to get good service.

Thank goodness for this forum and the help I received here.

Catnapper - Joanie

Machine	Mask	Humidifier

Additional Comments: 11-14 cmH2O

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