Anyone have experience with Dr. Thompson's Delta Sleep CD's?

DME recommended the Delta Sleep System CD set. Amazon has the MP3 version. Wondering if it might help with my "significant Alpha intrusions"/insomnia problem. Samples tracks sound 'good' to me, not the normal waterfall, thunderstorm, crickets chipping, classical music stuff. More like the "Hearts of Space" music which I like. Really hoping to find an alternative solution to using meds.

A nice way to relax before bedtime, but Dr. Thompson's form of acoustical entrainment only truly works when you listen through headphones, which makes listening while sleeping difficult. The underlying principle of binaural entrainment, discovered by Heinrich Dove in the mid-1800s, is that when two identical tones nearly identical in pitch are placed separately into each ear, the brain experiences a pulse representing the difference in pitch between the two tones. So, for example, if one ear hears a tone at 220 Hz (cycles per second) and the other hears the tone at 223 Hz, the brain reacts to a pulse at 3 Hz, which is far too low to actually hear. The idea is that your brainwaves will tend to match this hidden tone after a time, and therefore the technique can be used to modify your state of mind in a very controlled manner. Dr. Thompson (and many others) use this concept by recording entrainment tones in stereo and then masking them with music or other kinds of sounds. The actual effectiveness of the technique remains controversial, but at the worst, some very pleasant entrainment recordings are widely available.

For actually sleeping, you might experiment with looping a soft, isochronic entrainment MP3 freely available from several sources including iso-tones.com (assuming you have an MP3 player and docking system). Isochronic entrainment relies on simply generating a staccato-like pulse similar to the rotor sounds of a helicopter. Some people feel that this is more effective than binaural entrainment although I sure wouldn't describe it as prettier. Its main advantage is that headphones aren't necessary when listening, nor are both ears, so you can sleep with this kind of sound on even when sleeping on your side (assuming it's not on loud enough to keep you awake). The main disadvantage of this technique is that it supposedly is less effective at really low frequencies such as the Delta range (around 3 Hz), the range best for deep sleep.

Thanks for the input Raj! I'll download a few of the iso-tones and give them a try. I have the one called sleep playing right now, definately different. I think I could sleep with ear buds, in the past I've gone to sleep plugged into my shortwave radio listening to the BBC or RFA. Wife will object having to listen to anything other than the white noise Sleepmate machine we have. Any sleep/CPAP disadvantage sleeping with earbuds other than getting tangled up?

ETA ran across this cool headphone solution http://www.sleepphones.com/sleepphones

If you're comfortable with earbuds, Rusty, I'd recommend you try sleeping with a looped version of the 3 Hz waterfall sound (Delta Sleep and Lucid Dreaming) MP3 from White Noise Meditation (available from Amazon, iTunes store, or directly from the White Noise Meditation website [which is currently being reconstructed so the free and higher-quality pay downloads probably won't be back on line for a few days]). The irregularity of ocean waves sounds can be problematical for sleeping in several ways including affecting breathing patterns, but waterfall sounds are consistent enough to have no such consequences.

Interesting link you posted! I've seen in-pillow speakers advertised, but this product is new to me and should provide the stereo separation necessary for binaural beat entrainment. I do have to wonder, however, just how many things I can cover my head with at night if you know what I mean.

Just get yourself a good pair of IEMs (In Ear Monitors). Unlike ear buds that fit on the outer part of the ear canal and can cause uncomfortable pressure and pain on the cartilage of your ear, IEMs fit inside your ear canal just like foam ear plugs. IEMs when fit properly (they come with different size inner ear foam cushions) you can't even tell you have anything in your ears and can wear them for hours (like when sleeping). You can also use them to listen to music or radio from MP3 player during the day.

Google "brain wave entrainment" and you can find free software to make your own sounds too.

...and yes, Jeffery's CDs are nice to sleep to.

Rustyolddude wrote:Wondering if it might help with my "significant Alpha intrusions"/insomnia problem.

Awakened Mind Dr. Jeff Thompson
Relax & Restore ????
Music Meditation Silvia Nakkach
Chakra Chants
All of these are very good for relaxing.

These were pre-OSA Rx......desperate for sleep.

They helped me to go to sleep....but guess what....
...yea, you know what....

Then all I needed was the sweet sound of Grace's rhythmic pulsations....

....now w/my S8(the name hasn't come to me yet) there is no sound....
there is EPR, my breathing is easy and natural in a few minutes and
my mask melts into my face.......and I am released into the abyss.

Raj wrote:If you're comfortable with earbuds, Rusty, I'd recommend you try sleeping with a looped version of the 3 Hz waterfall sound (Delta Sleep and Lucid Dreaming) MP3 from White Noise Meditation (available from Amazon, iTunes store, or directly from the White Noise Meditation website [which is currently being reconstructed so the free and higher-quality pay downloads probably won't be back on line for a few days]). The irregularity of ocean waves sounds can be problematical for sleeping in several ways including affecting breathing patterns, but waterfall sounds are consistent enough to have no such consequences.

I'll look into that further, I've been listening to the MP3's on the computer before I stick them on the player. The ones with the waterfall/whitenoise/helicopter sounds & the ones I can hear the beat seem to be best thus far. Piano music kinda grinds on me, and at least one, I think it was 'Dreams Unsettled' actually startled me during certain parts. But I''ve tried two nights in a row with one track and I think it actually made a difference! My antique MP3 player is lacking, it doens't have a loop feature and lacks others. Found a deal on the Sansa Clip, and ordered one.

Interesting link you posted! I've seen in-pillow speakers advertised, but this product is new to me and should provide the stereo separation necessary for binaural beat entrainment. I do have to wonder, however, just how many things I can cover my head with at night if you know what I mean.

I agree, pricey as well. Well employed concept, might not be a bad idea if it was incorporated into a chinstrap though, huh? Think I'll email them and suggest it.

DreamStalker wrote:Just get yourself a good pair of IEMs (In Ear Monitors). Unlike ear buds that fit on the outer part of the ear canal and can cause uncomfortable pressure and pain on the cartilage of your ear, IEMs fit inside your ear canal just like foam ear plugs. IEMs when fit properly (they come with different size inner ear foam cushions) you can't even tell you have anything in your ears and can wear them for hours (like when sleeping). You can also use them to listen to music or radio from MP3 player during the day.

Google "brain wave entrainment" and you can find free software to make your own sounds too.

Thanks for the IEM suggestion, that's what I was hoping to find but didn't know the correct term for them. I'd like something like a foam earplug. If you know of any reasonably priced IEM's that fit the description, (first google search was a bit over the top price wise), let me know. I've got a pair of Skullcandy Smokin' Buds which I really like. The one thing I've read is constant use of a ear bud that seals the ear canal can result in ear infections. I did find one entrainment DIY software package. Probably a bit much for me to learn right now with everything else going on. Sansa has a deal with Rhapsody where you get 30 days unlimited free MP3 downloads and Dr. Thompsons stuff is on there. I figure I can download all the relaxation/sleep MP3's they have to offer.

carbonman wrote:
...yea, you know what....

I'm adjusting to the sound of Clarisse, as in Silence Of The Lambs When I went to the DME confirmed what I was hearing was normal & just the way it is, my brain said time to accept it and move on. Thus it hasn't been grinding on my nerves anymore.

I have a pair of these ...

http://www.earphonesolutions.com/weston ... elid=FROOG

They are not only the most comfortable I have ever had but also the best sounding ... and they are made in USA, not China.

Also, the cushion ear tips are interchangeable between some other brands of IEMs ... so if you don't care to pay the price for the better audio fidelity of the UM1s, you may be able to find less audio quality for less $$ and use the same comfortable ear foam cushions/tips.

http://www.earphonesolutions.com/accessories.html

... see link in lower left of page

DreamStalker wrote:I have a pair of these ...

http://www.earphonesolutions.com/weston ... elid=FROOG

They are not only the most comfortable I have ever had but also the best sounding ... and they are made in USA, not China.

Also, the cushion ear tips are interchangeable between some other brands of IEMs ... so if you don't care to pay the price for the better audio fidelity of the UM1s, you may be able to find less audio quality for less $$ and use the same comfortable ear foam cushions/tips.

http://www.earphonesolutions.com/accessories.html

... see link in lower left of page

Thanks, so these fit well within the ear, not sticking out so such that they poke you when you roll on your side? Not the cheapest but way better than the $300 I saw on the first google search.

Don't know where Skullcandy's are made but their customer service & warranty is top notch.

Rustyolddude wrote:

DreamStalker wrote:I have a pair of these ...

http://www.earphonesolutions.com/weston ... elid=FROOG

They are not only the most comfortable I have ever had but also the best sounding ... and they are made in USA, not China.

Also, the cushion ear tips are interchangeable between some other brands of IEMs ... so if you don't care to pay the price for the better audio fidelity of the UM1s, you may be able to find less audio quality for less $$ and use the same comfortable ear foam cushions/tips.

http://www.earphonesolutions.com/accessories.html

... see link in lower left of page

Thanks, so these fit well within the ear, not sticking out so such that they poke you when you roll on your side? Not the cheapest but way better than the $300 I saw on the first google search.

Don't know where Skullcandy's are made but their customer service & warranty is top notch.

Mine don't stick out. As I said, they are very comfortable .... they sound great (I'm an audiophile buff with lots of fairly expensive audio equipment) ... and they are made in USA.

Uhhh duh they had the pic right there of them in the ear. I'm not much on audio stuff, don't walk or work out with a MP3 player, most I'll do is put on phones for ham radio stuff. But those look like they'll do the trick, other than the cheap Skullcandy's I have, I've never found an ear bud that would stay in my head. Thanks for all your help esp. the iso-tones & entrainment info.

Took your suggestion and ordered the UM1's. The MP3 player, Sansa Clip, is on back order. Anyway I was wondering what your thoughts & advice were on positioning & securing everything. I was kinda thinking above my head, to the hose or headboard, perhaps inside the pillowcase.

Rustyolddude wrote:Took your suggestion and ordered the UM1's. The MP3 player, Sansa Clip, is on back order. Anyway I was wondering what your thoughts & advice were on positioning & securing everything. I was kinda thinking above my head, to the hose or headboard, perhaps inside the pillowcase.

An over your head setup might be best IMO. All IEMs have what are known as microphonics (like a stethoscope) related to movement of the wires. Anything that can be done to minimize movement or rustling of the wires is what you want for optimal audio fidelity with minimized noise.

Each of the UM1 ear phones has a small colored dot on it ... red is for right ear, blue is for left ear. Have fun.

I forgot to mention ... I have the Sansa Clip also ... not a bad MP3 device at all ... and very light, small, and compact. You can prolly clip it to your mask headgear over your forehead and neatly bundle up the wires to the earphones so that you minimize any potential microphonic noise. Sort'a like a custom designed mask-earphone headset.

Well this is not so much about Dr. Thompson... but about the Westone earpieces or monitors as they call them. I have alpha intrusions and it has just gotten worse. My sleep apnea is under control, but not my 'brain waves' I found some simple ones at the link below and the one I got was Gentle Dreams with Delta tones.
http://www.soundsleeping.com/mp3downloads.html

I went to the site mentioned for Weston ear monitors... now called the UM2. I bit my lip and bought them. The hard plastic earpieces hurt my ears and do not stay in place. Just got them today. What a fit! I am looking forward to a good night of sleep.

I have used Thompson's in the past and had great luck for three months, then it all went down hill.

Would love some feed back about newer CDs by Thompson and anything else about alpha intrusions.