Concealed Carry and CPAP

jdm2857 wrote:

Hoze-Zay wrote:

jdm2857 wrote:Reading this thread makes me glad that New Jersey makes it almost impossible to get a concealed carry permit unless you have a very specific situation that requires one.

I'm also glad that congress did not pass the bill that would have required the states to cross-honor permits.

And now I should probably duck!

NO need to duck! I said to not make it political but you did. That means you can't follow instructions which means you probably don't need to be carrying because you have to follow instructions to get a license.
Having said that I suggest you read the following. It kinda sums up the way we people who carry think.
http://mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html

So does carrying a concealed weapon mean that you get to set the rules, or is it because I disagree with you that makes my opinion political?

Go ahead, the soap box is yours. I won't argue with you becasue this is not the place. Rumble young man! Rumble!

Hoze-Zay wrote:...If people only knew how much time concealed carry people spend making sure they never get into a situation it would amaze them.

Yeah, they would. My mom was one of the first cops where we living when I was a pre-teen and fascinated with her guns...what to do with her weapons in the house? Took me out to gun range and an award-winning sharpshooter taught me how to handle and shoot her and his guns. I got bored after several hrs in the sun and eventually consistently hitting my targets...they made me stay out for hrs more. I knew where she kept 'em and how to handle and shoot each...was never interested in them after that long afternoon...worked for me! Also learned what locales and situations were potentially dangerous and some self-defense techniques.

Muse-Inc wrote:

Hoze-Zay wrote:...If people only knew how much time concealed carry people spend making sure they never get into a situation it would amaze them.

Yeah, they would. My mom was one of the first cops where we living when I was a pre-teen and fascinated with her guns...what to do with her weapons in the house? Took me out to gun range and an award-winning sharpshooter taught me how to handle and shoot her and his guns. I got bored after several hrs in the sun and eventually consistently hitting my targets...they made me stay out for hrs more. I knew where she kept 'em and how to handle and shoot each...was never interested in them after that long afternoon...worked for me! Also learned what locales and situations were potentially dangerous and some self-defense techniques.

Well said and I would love to shake your moms hand. Good job on her part. The main thing is being able to look at a place and realize that you don't need to be there.

Timbalionguy.......

Probably one of the best ways to become proficient is to compete in police-style combat pistol shooting matches. Don't expect to win......just go to have fun....and to learn......MAINLY to learn.

You'll learn how to think better when you're under pressure....you'll learn the feel of...and become a part of your equipment. The more comfortable you are with your weapon, the more brainpower you can apply to "the situation"....should you ever be in one.

Finally, the fast action of combat-style matches is guaranteed to cause your equipment to fail.......something will break.......something will fall in the dirt.....and all those failures along with their corrections will increase your safety while you're out at those remote towers.

Go to learn and have fun........so that you can survive that once in a lifetime confrontation.

Gerald

There are three issues here.

First is the practical and simple. If your treatment is effective, then sleep should not limit your ability to think clearly. If it is not, then you should be focused on improving your treatment rather than anything else.

Until the former happens, placing yourself in any situation that requires rapid decision making that involves someone else's life is inherently dangerous, and I applaud you on deciding not to carry when you received the initial diagnosis (and hope you were using a trigger lock while you securely stored your sidearm). Shoot/don't shoot is just one of them, along with driving motor vehicles and many other things. Worrying about a carry permit misses the larger point about what you should be doing. If your treatment is as effective as your wife feels, then this is a moot point, but if you don't feel fully alert that's a wee bit more important than what she thinks.

Second is not just the quality but the type of your training. Don't take this the wrong way, but as someone who went through the full gauntlet of training and a bit of experience in law enforcement once upon a time, trust me when I say there's a huge gulf between being trained in self-defense techniques and being trained on when such use is appropriate. I'm positive you and your wife are far better shots than I am, but I'm also aware that the NRA doesn't certify a course on what level of force is equally appropriate, and even more importantly how to deescalate a situation so that points 1 and 2 do not need to arise.

Do you need to have OC sprayed in your face, get pressure points sore for days, do scenario after scenario in a simulator, and be trained in conflict resolution like I did to have proper training? No. But with the focus of civilian training being on how to avoid breaking the law when you use deadly force and being "street smart" rather than the much broader range of training which results in most cops never having to ever use their piece during their career and rarely use lower levels of force in general despite being in much more dangerous situations on a routine basis, that training probably isn't going to help at all to offset the cognitive problems that come from apnea.

You may still be able to place a shot in someone's center of gravity when a deadly weapon crosses their belt line or they cross 15 feet with a knife, but because you're much more irritable and thinking less clearly than you need to be, as you put it the "situation" is an awful lot more likely to arise and turn out badly. Incidentally, the training that really might have helped you isn't even law enforcement; one of the basic tenets of boot camp is to see if people on massive sleep deprivation can still make important decisions the right way.

Finally, as someone else said the last factor is in fact legal. Apnea can and will be used against you in a court of law in any situation that has liability attached - be very careful when dealing with auto accidents too, by the way. If you have a solid history of it being controlled and a record of usage of your CPAP to show it was not in the closet that week, even a lousy defense attorney will blow up that argument. If not, any smart litigator worth their salt is going to go after you on it and personally I'd rather not be a test case.

So to answer your question, until your treatment has a bit of a track record of being successful, I wouldn't carry for your protection and that of those around you. Regaining your piece is a good motivator for you to comply.

old64mb, Very good points and that is why I asked the question. Great points. Well written and inciteful. Thanks and sorry I could not make a quote..No room

Hoze-Zay wrote:old64mb, Very good points and that is why I asked the question. Great points. Well written and inciteful. Thanks and sorry I could not make a quote..No room

Glad to help.

Forgot to address one thing: the offset-apnea-with-adrenaline argument is one that should be debunked. A growing part of LE training involves learning how to manage the many negative effects of adrenaline and if you stack those on top of the effects of sleep deprivation, bad scene. Tunnel vision and a racing pulse rate may have you wide awake, but the quality of the decisions you make can be rather compromised.

If your Sleep Apnea is causing you to second guess your option to conceal carry now what will your senior years be like? You must be confident in yourself and hold strong that it is your right under the 2nd Amendment to be able to defend yourself. Violent crime is out there and as we all age we become more of a opportunity to those who wish us harm. I do not and will not comment on how disabling Sleep Apnea is to others but I know even if I were to go without CPAP treatment (which I won't) I would not leave my home with out a way to defend myself. Crime will not rest even when we are not getting a full night's rest.

So your going not defend yourself because you feel you didn't get enough sleep?

So your going not defend yourself because you feel you didn't get enough sleep?

That isn't the issue - it is whether he has to ability not to think like that. Sleep deprivation makes you very antsy and easily angered and totally unable to control the adrenaline rush with a perceived threat. Note I said "perceived" - sleep deprived people will find more threats to shoot at.

If you really feel you need to carry a concealed weapon in order to feel safe - maybe you should move.

The reason I carry isn't because I don't feel safe. I am sure that not a child or a teacher in the school at Columbine didn't feel safe, I am sure that the Minister and his congregation felt safe in their church, everybody shopping at the mall in Omaha probably felt safe......are we really ever safe, anywhere. When I carry, and that is most of the time I am not in my home, I have a heightened sense of my surroundings at all times. This is just normal when you choose to carry a gun. Believe me, the gun in my belt doesn't make me feel any safer, maybe at times just the opposite.

6PtStar wrote:

GumbyCT wrote:Aren't target shooting and concealed carry two different things?

Yes, but target shooting (especially IPSC or IDPA) is a very good way to get proficient enough to have the confidence if you are going to carry that if you have to use it you won't shoot your own self in the foot. I have had a few sign up for my concealed carry class that did not know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of.

Jerry

Those people who don't know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of are the ones that will benefit most from you. They have zero experience so they haven't developed any bad habits. Try teaching someone that's been shooting for 20 years and has developed poor safety habits. It's almost impossible to teach them to change. The rookie will look to you as the expert and will try their best to do everything you say.