O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by DreamStalker » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:51 am

Looks like the Palinites are winning the misinformation war.

NPR this morning stated that the public option is now off the table ... may as well leave things as is without a public option to reduce the obscene rate increases in health insurance profits.
President-pretender, J. Biden, said "the DNC has built the largest voter fraud organization in US history". Too bad they didn’t build the smartest voter fraud organization and got caught.

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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by apnez » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:46 am

DreamStalker wrote:Looks like the Palinites are winning the misinformation war...
Go ahead, you are on the right track! Very soon the Americans will have 3 big priorities in their life : enriched health industry making outrageous profits with poor service, enriched Arabian countries, paying skyrocketing oil bills and spending enormous amount of money in order not to be killed by middle age Talibans, all this destroying your economy!!!!

That is for sure the end of the American Empire!!! All this is driven by bunch of "brilliant" American made... type of "fundamentalists". Europe and China, in the meantime, have other and more realistic priorities and projects and don't loose their time debating stupid arguments like you do! They go ahead! By the way those elements are also among the key factors of your actual economic crisis. They are not the cause of all your problems but a great part of it.

That type of "conservatism" will slowly kill your fantastic country. Your faith in the future was your trade mark. You were on the GO! Now US are on the brakes all the time, dominated by FEAR, fighting each other! As a matter of fact you already have your own kind of internal Talibans who are a cancer for your nation...

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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by DreamStalker » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:54 am

Just came across this ...
Commentary: How insurance firms drive debate
Editor's note: Wendell Potter has served since May 2009 as senior fellow on health care at the Center for Media and Democracy, a nonprofit organization that says it seeks to expose "corporate spin and government propaganda." After a 20-year career as a corporate public relations executive, Potter left his job last year as head of communications for one of the nation's largest health insurers, CIGNA Corporation.

(CNN) -- Having grown up in one of the most conservative and Republican places in the country -- East Tennessee -- I understand why many of the people who are showing up at town hall meetings this month are reacting, sometimes violently, when members of Congress try to explain the need for an expanded government role in our health care system.

I also have a lot of conservative friends, including one former co-worker who was laid off by CIGNA several years ago but who nonetheless worries about a "government takeover" of health care.

The most vocal folks at the town hall meetings seem to share the same ideology as my kinfolks in East Tennessee and my former CIGNA buddy: the less government involvement in our lives, the better.

That point couldn't have been made clearer than by the man standing in line to get free care at Remote Area Medical's recent health care "expedition" at the Wise County, Virginia, fairgrounds, who told a reporter he was dead set against President Obama's reform proposal.

Even though he didn't have health insurance, and could see the desperation in the faces of thousands of others all around him who were in similar straits, he was more worried about the possibility of having to pay more taxes than he was eager to make sure he and his neighbors wouldn't have to wait in line to get care provided by volunteer doctors in animal stalls.

Friday morning my former CIGNA buddy sent me an e-mail challenging something he said his wife heard me say in a radio report about my press conference in the Capitol on Wednesday with Rep. Louise Slaughter, D-New York, chairwoman of the House Rules Committee.

"She heard you say that these protestors are funded by the insurance companies. Frankly, nothing would surprise me, but certainly not each and every person," he wrote. "If there was a meeting near me, I certainly would tell my local representative how I feel about this entire subject (and it wouldn't be pretty), and I certainly am not funded by anyone. So I am ultimately wondering what proof there is that seemingly ordinary Americans are finally protesting what is going in Washington and there are all of these suggestions of a greater conspiracy."

If the radio report had carried more of my remarks, he might have a better understanding of how the health insurance and its army of PR people are influencing his opinions and actions without his even knowing it.

Until I quit my job last year, I was one of the leaders of that army. I had a very successful career and was my company's voice to the media and the public for several years.

It was my job to "promote and defend" the company's reputation and to try to persuade reporters to write positive stories about the industry's ideas on reform. During the last couple of years of my career, however, I became increasingly worried that the high-deductible plans insurers were beginning to push Americans into would force more and more of us into bankruptcy.

The higher I rose in the company, the more I learned about the tactics insurers use to dump policyholders when they get sick, in order to increase profits and to reward their Wall Street investors. I could not in good conscience continue serving as an industry mouthpiece. And I did not want to be part of yet another industry effort to kill meaningful reform.

I explained during the press conference with Rep. Slaughter how the industry funnels millions of its policyholders' premiums to big public relations firms that provide talking points to conservative talk show hosts, business groups and politicians. I also described how the PR firms set up front groups, again using your premium dollars and mine, to scare people away from reform.

What I'm trying to do as I write and speak out against the insurance industry I was a part of for nearly two decades is to inform Americans that when they hear isolated stories of long waiting times to see doctors in Canada and allegations that care in other systems is rationed by "government bureaucrats," someone associated with the insurance industry wrote the original script.

The industry has been engaging in these kinds of tactics for many years, going back to its successful behind-the-scenes campaign to kill the Clinton reform plan.

A story in Friday's New York Times about the origin of the absurdly false rumor that President Obama's health care proposal would create government-sponsored "death panels" bears out what I have been saying.

The story notes that the rumor emanated "from many of the same pundits and conservative media outlets that were central in defeating Bill Clinton's health care proposal 16 years ago, including the editorial board of The Washington Times, the American Spectator magazine and Betsy McCaughey, whose 1994 health care critique made her a star of the conservative movement (and ultimately, the lieutenant governor of New York)."

The big PR firms that work for the industry have close connections with those media outlets and stars in the conservative movement. One of their PR firms, which created and staffed a front group in the late '90s to kill the proposed "Patients' Bill of Rights," launched a PR and advertising campaign in conservative media outlets to drum up opposition to the bill.

The message: President Clinton "owed a debt to the liberal base of the Democrat Party and would try to pay back that debt by advancing the type of big government agenda on health care that he failed to get in 1994."

The industry goes to great lengths to keep its involvement in these campaigns hidden from public view. I know from having served on numerous trade group committees and industry-funded front groups, however, that industry leaders are always full partners in developing strategies to derail any reform that might interfere with insurers' ability to increase profits.

So the next time you hear someone warning against a "government takeover" of our health care system, or that the creation of a public health insurance option would send us down the "slippery slope toward socialism," know that someone like I used to be wrote those terms, knowing it might turn many of the very people who would benefit most from meaningful reform into unwitting spokespeople for the industry.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/ ... index.html
Last edited by DreamStalker on Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
President-pretender, J. Biden, said "the DNC has built the largest voter fraud organization in US history". Too bad they didn’t build the smartest voter fraud organization and got caught.

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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by john_dozer » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:57 am

NPR this morning stated that the public option is now off the table ... may as well leave things as is without a public option to reduce the obscene rate increases in health insurance profits.
I doubt it is truly is gone.

But could you please tell me about these obscene profits? Do you have numbers? Large numbers of people are on their State's non-profit insurance program and don't even realize it. For example, Blue Cross/Blue Shield in some states is the non-profit offering (in other states it is not). Its the biggest insurer in my state.

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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by john_dozer » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:08 am

My 2 cents about Canadian healthcare.

I lived under Ontario's plan the first 23 years of my life. The last 19 have been in the US.

When I travel to western Ontario to visit relatives I enter through the Detroit-Windsor bridge crossing. So I travel much of the South Eastern portion of Ontario. I alway glance at a map to refresh myself as to the closest US access points along the way.

You see, if you have something "hum drum" medically and don't mind the wait, the Canadian system is fine and perhaps cheaper. Once you get off the straight forward issues, thats when things change. For example, if I broke a bone and it was a clean break, I'd use Canadian medical. However, if I had soft tissue joint damage that needed to be addressed right away, there'd be no question. Pack it in ice and head to the lower 48.

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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by DreamStalker » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:43 am

john_dozer wrote:
NPR this morning stated that the public option is now off the table ... may as well leave things as is without a public option to reduce the obscene rate increases in health insurance profits.
I doubt it is truly is gone.

But could you please tell me about these obscene profits? Do you have numbers? Large numbers of people are on their State's non-profit insurance program and don't even realize it. For example, Blue Cross/Blue Shield in some states is the non-profit offering (in other states it is not). Its the biggest insurer in my state.
numbers? what numbers? who needs stinking numbers?

http://bulletin.aarp.org/states/hi/2009 ... orial.html

I must say I don't know about non-profit status of BCBS. I have BCBS. My employer pays 100% of the premium as part of my salary (I think premium is about $385/month and covers only myself). I never knew BCBS was a non-profit health insurance ... I'll have to look into that.

EDIT: I went Googled my health insurance and sure nuff ... it is non-profit. It is nice to know that I can get good health coverage from a non-profit organization. I don't see why a government non-profit can't do the same.
Last edited by DreamStalker on Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
President-pretender, J. Biden, said "the DNC has built the largest voter fraud organization in US history". Too bad they didn’t build the smartest voter fraud organization and got caught.

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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by apnez » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:48 am

It is extremely difficult to pinpoint individual corporations profits and to get a clear picture from the "ground". But it is quite easy to identify the discrepancies between health systems when we look at it globally.

All that work has been done in health management faculties and public health schools in USA (like Ann Harbor - Donabedians and al.) and all over the occidental and developed countries. Roughly USA is spending 18% (going to 20%) of its GNP for health as the major occidental developed countries are mostly spending in the 10-12% range (some more like Switzerland and less like Japan who spend about 9% of their GNP or half of the USA). The gap has "always" be in the +-50% range.

Health systems in other countries are based on public funds managed by mostly government agencies non profit oriented. In the USA just a part of the population is covered by a private set-up sometimes partially and especially by insurance companies most of them privately owned and profit oriented.

All those countries are providing globally comparable services with comparably skilled people and equipment. I, professionally, have been in a position to evaluate those services and there is no doubt that the medicine is greatly comparable to USA as I saw it in France, Great-Britain, Canada, Germany etc...

Administrative costs in those countries varies and are in the range of +- 5% of that 10-12%. According to the various studies made on the subject. Effective services given to the population would represent about 12% on this 18% of GNP spent in USA leaving about 6% of the GNP to be left for profit and administration.

As most of the countries have a quite centralized and unique management for their health system (roughly centralized per province in Canada, one for France, G.B. etc...) it is understandable that management costs are reduced to a minimum.

In the USA there are thousands of insurance companies with local offices and branches involving hundreds of thousands employees distributed all over the country, utilizing hundreds of different systems, forms etc.., dealing with hospital employees, individuals, doctors offices etc.. This is huge Babel Tower extremely costly. No body knows exactly what par of this 6% of the GNP goes to let's say that "red tape". But there is absolutely no doubt that this is extremely expensive and inefficient. This 6% of the GNP represents a third of the money really spent by Americans for tangible health services. We can presume that 30% goes to the "red tape" (ie +-2% of the GNP) the balance being net profits or something around +- 4% of the GNP or a third of the effective delivered services (4% out of 12%).

Those are the main or major characteristics of the American health system : a non comprehensive, private health system, extremely expensive to operate, privately managed with huge accessibility problems, extremely costly to administer with very high profits. As I already mentioned, WHO consider that the American health system is a poor performer (Italy, France, Canada, Japan etc... being the most efficient ones) USA is at the 24th rang just after Cuba (23third) as far as health indicators are concerned.

P.S. Don't make mistakes, profits don't all go to insurance companies! There are a lot of people making money and "profits" out of health services : pharmacy industries, clinics, doctors, DME(!) etc... The main purpose of health industry in USA is to make profits not to produce the best health services for Americans.

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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by DreamStalker » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:03 pm

Can't argue with you Apnez.

Babel Tower ... isn't that the one that pissed off God or something like that? ... Holy CPAP, so the sky really could fall?
President-pretender, J. Biden, said "the DNC has built the largest voter fraud organization in US history". Too bad they didn’t build the smartest voter fraud organization and got caught.

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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by Muse-Inc » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:10 pm

DreamStalker wrote:...so the sky really could fall?
Calling all rapture believers...
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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by jdm2857 » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:18 pm

Yes we will

The Health Police will be the enforcement arm of the Death Panels. They will be based on the Alaska island (pop. 50) so that that there is an excuse to finally build that bridge.
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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by apnez » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:52 pm

jdm2857 wrote:Yes we will

The Health Police will be the enforcement arm of the Death Panels. They will be based on the Alaska island (pop. 50) so that that there is an excuse to finally build that bridge.


How can a "normal" American can believe in Death Panels and all those stupidities!!!!!!????? How is this possible? It looks like nonsense, impossible but Germans followed Hitler. What looks unrealistic can happen... We have a so high opinion of the USA that we simply can't believe it!

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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by jdm2857 » Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:07 pm

It's even more preposterous after seeing how close Obama was to the grandmother that raised him, and how upset he was when she passed away two days before the election.
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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by Husky Lover » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:32 pm

jdm2857 wrote:It's even more preposterous after seeing how close Obama was to the grandmother that raised him, and how upset he was when she passed away two days before the election.
Would that be the one who saw him born in Kenya?

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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by rogelah » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:08 pm

Holy FBC (Federal Bureau of CPAP) Batman! There's a microphone in my anti-asphyxiation valve and a TV camera in my forehead support!
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Re: O.T.: Will We Ever Have Health Police?

Post by BloodRose » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:49 am

The NPR this morning declared that the accessible advantage is now off the table that may as able-bodied leave things as is after a accessible advantage to abate the atrocious amount increases in bloom allowance profits.



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