Want To Get The Most Restorative Sleep Possible

Cpaptalk.com provides a place for thousands of people who have sleep apnea to optimize their therapy. This forum has been a prime leader in encouraging those with apnea to get the machine most appropiate for their apnea condition. Every person who comes to this forum is encouraged to get a data capable unit with software printouts to give information on their statistics. Oximeters discussions and purchases abound in the threads.

Sleep Apnea technology has improved greatly, what else can be offered to improve our therapy. The Zeo (personal sleep monitors) has been rejected by technology experts as a "rip-off", it cannot deliver what was promised, and is not FDA approved.

However, for a couple of years Sleep Review magazine has featured articles on Actigraphys, primarily for professional use. (An actigraph measures body movement, it records sleep/waketime. Also measures & records an actual sleep pattern. They are an important tool in the astronaut) program. Prices are just starting to come down on these units, and the companies are beginning to advertise to the public.

How would you like to buy a watch to strap on in the evening that can determine amount you sleep, frequency and duration of awakenings sleep latency and sleep efficiency.

The ActiSleep monitor has a recharable battery, direct USB connection. It can be used to objectively determine sleep hygiene and to aid in the diagnosis & treatment of insomnia, circadian-rhythm disorders. RLS, PLM movements & other sleep disorders. The ActiSleep moniter has a price of about $499.00 with additional cost for software. I read an estimate that the complete package will be under $250.00 in a couple of years.

The MicroMini Motionlogger is a watch-like device with sensors recording sleepscoring algorithms. In addition to Actigraph abilities, it analyses your sleep hygiene by evaluating body temperature, room temperature, room light levels, & records environmental sounds. Obtaining correct values of each item can significantly improve restorative sleep.

Sounds good to me for the future.

Jan

When the price comes down a bit, I might look at something like this.

But I'll lay odds the makers have never tried real-world conditions, like people who sleep with dachshunds cuddled up to them. (It's probably a good thing I wasn't diagnosed earlier. I used to have a bi-color Maine Coon Cat who wrapped herself around my head and then set her chin on my forehead. Hmm, maybe THAT's why I get along so well with my CL2 and Headrest....)

Kira, You are right, now most of the equipment is being used or tested in sleep studies on the sites I visited. The Motionlogger has Ambulatory Monitoring systems evaluating shift-work, sports medicine, ADHD, & the field of nursing. Several Japanese companies are studying the use of actigraph in humans in sport activities.

Kira, keep this in mind. You could write to one of the companies producing actigraphic equipment and volunteer to test human responses while sleeping with various pets

Kiralynx wrote:But I'll lay odds the makers have never tried real-world conditions, like people who sleep with dachshunds cuddled up to them. (It's probably a good thing I wasn't diagnosed earlier. I used to have a bi-color Maine Coon Cat who wrapped herself around my head and then set her chin on my forehead. Hmm, maybe THAT's why I get along so well with my CL2 and Headrest....)

I would make a guess within three or four years they will be publicly sold. The prices will come down, and cpappers will be snapping them up.

SaltLakeJan wrote:Kira, keep this in mind. You could write to one of the companies producing actigraphic equipment and volunteer to test human responses while sleeping with various pets

Now that's an idea. I wonder where one would write?

SaltLakeJan wrote: I would make a guess within three or four years they will be publicly sold. The prices will come down, and cpappers will be snapping them up.

Almost certainly. Just like pulse-oximeters.

It's not entirely clear with the Zeo and the Actigraph - are they montoring EEG, or something else?
Would it fit under my papcap?

SaltLakeJan wrote:Kira, keep this in mind. You could write to one of the companies producing actigraphic equipment and volunteer to test human responses while sleeping with various pets

I wrote them. And they said, yes, the machine could be affected by furkids or SOs in the bed.

Well Hello DreamDiver

Haven't "talked" with you for a while. You do give excellent advice.

Actigraphs will probably be the wave of the future. (If the economy holds up) They began by measuring movement by sensors. - (they probably could fit under your pap cap) Usually, they have larger sensors, as in sleep centers ,or a wrist watch type devise.

An Amer.Academy of Sleep Med. recent article said actigraph's are almost there, but not quite. for the purposes of sleep medicine. They are used in sleep centers, but as adjunct tools.

The major manufacturers are competeting to enter the commercial markets..

"ActiGraph announces the long-anticipated commercial release of the ActiTrainer, the first scientifically validated personal activity monitoring device readily available to the public. The ActiTrainer, in conjunction with Polar® heart rate technology, accurately measures energy expenditure, average and maximum heart rate, pace, distance, and sleep patterns. The subscription-based Virtual Trainer software application allows users to upload their data for detailed activity analysis and progress tracking, including other interactive lifestyle management tools. The ActiTrainer target audience consists of individuals looking to lose weight, improve athletic performance, and/or manage their overall health and wellness.

“The release of the ActiTrainer represents a new frontier in personal fitness and lifestyle management,” “One of the reasons that our society is so incredibly out of shape is because people have a skewed perception of how physically active they really are. For the first time ever, the ActiTrainer and the Virtual Trainer will give people an accurate and unbiased look at their activity patterns."

I read your thread on oximeters when I was considering one, it helped me decide. I consider it a vital part of cpap therapy now. The use of oximeters in cpap therapy in 2009, may represent where actigraphs will be in a couple of years in relation to cpap treatment.

Perhaps we will all be clamoring for one in less than two years. One person on this forum will get one, and start an actigraph thread, and it will spread faster than the common cold.

Later . .

Jan

Hmmmm. A portion of the technology that goes into an actigraph is already in the Wiimote, of which I already own several. I sense some serious nerd hacking projects coming on . . .

Hi HEM,
Good point, but:

You could probably buy an actigraph for less money then you would pay for a Wii. Considering the initial cost of the Wii, plus the games you buy later.


Jan

HEM wrote:Hmmmm. A portion of the technology that goes into an actigraph is already in the Wiimote, of which I already own several. I sense some serious nerd hacking projects coming on . . .

Yes it would be nice to get that as an addon for the Wii. So many people already have a Wii!

Hmmm why not add a CPAP to it too?

Hi Black Spinner"

From the products I have seen, Wii can duplicate almost anything. Why not Cpap?
Would it be a real or imagined experience? I would like to have the imagined experience and get the full effect of Cpap. Anything is possible.


Whee!
Jan

Hi Everyone,

My name is Derek Haswell, and I work for Zeo Inc. I recently came across this thread (due to the mention of Zeo) and wanted to take the opportunity to participate in the conversation.

First, I wanted to clear up any confusion around the our product. (1) Zeo uses a wireless headband to track your brainwaves over the course of the night (2) The headband communicates to a bedside display that uses algorithms to determine what phase of sleep you were in at a given time (3) You can upload this data to the myZeo website where you can keep a journal of daytime activities and events and correlate those with your sleep patterns (4) There is an email-based sleep coaching program that interacts with questionnaires and your sleep data to help you evaluate factors that may be affecting your sleep. Two early reviews of Zeo can be found in the WSJ and NYTimes.

Actigraphy uses a different technology – typically worn on the wrist like a watch, actigraphy uses accelerometers (like the ones in a Wii remote) to track your body motion over the course of the night, which can then be evaluated to determine when you were asleep based on how much you were moving around.

One major difference between the two technologies is that Zeo’s allows you to see your sleep phases - including how much restorative sleep you are getting - while actigraphy does not. You can find posters, which we’ve presented to professional sleep conferences around the world, on our website under ‘Health Professionals’ that show how PSG (Visual Scorer 1 and 2), and a leading actigraph compare to Zeo’s SoftWave™ technology (Wireless System).

Zeo is intended for consumers in the home, and is neither a medical device nor a medical program and is not intended for the diagnosis or treatment of sleep disorders. As you all know, you should consult your physician if you suspect you have a sleep disorder.

With that said, we have the strong support of our Scientific Advisory Board which includes thought leaders in sleep medicine, sleep science, and behavioral psychology, and are committed to continuing our research on Zeo’s technology to provide further validation.

Sorry for the long winded response, but I hope this helps and look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Regards,
Derek

Sounds great Derek, got any coupons?

Heres my poor mans Actigraphy, an old laptop, a $5 web cam with 4 LED lights and the shareware software called Dorgem.
I set up Dorgem to take a photo every time i move and it gets saved with the timestamp as its filename. I then sleep without covers and adjust the LED lights just bright enough to get a decent picture.
In the morning I can have fun comparing the photos of my positions with the events or leaks on my timeline. It makes for a fun weekend

Respironics makes a device called an ActiWatch that I used at home for a week as part of a research study. Never saw the data from it though. The instructions advised not to sleep with pets in the room, but I ignored that. It was easier to ignore the instructions than three cats meowing outside my closed bedroom door.

As for the laptop and webcam, I should try that. Many digital camera are sensitive to IR, so you might be able to substitute IR LEDs and sleep in a dark room. Believe it or not, a floppy disk (the disk itself, removed from the plastic case) is a pretty good IR filter. It blocks visible light and passes IR. So pull apart an old floppy, but it over your webcam lens, point a remote control at it and press some buttons. If you see the diode flash on the computer screen, your cam is sensitive to IR.