I'm just sayin'

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
LinkC
Posts: 3154
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:06 pm
Location: Amelia Island, FL

Re: I'm just sayin'

Post by LinkC » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:16 pm

boston wrote: i dont think the industry really cares right now, they are selling machines
Exactly....AND selling services. The DMEs and most doctors WANT you dependent on them for data retrieval and interpretation.

And who are the manufacturers "customers"? (It ain't us guys in the funny masks!) So why would they spend big bucks to redesign features that would just pizz off their loyal customer base AND the folks who write the 'scripts--sometimes for specific makes and models.

_________________
MachineMaskHumidifier
Additional Comments: 11-14 cmH2O
The OSA patient died quietly in his sleep.
Unlike his passengers who died screaming as the car went over the cliff...

User avatar
LinkC
Posts: 3154
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:06 pm
Location: Amelia Island, FL

Re: I'm just sayin'

Post by LinkC » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:21 pm

Rocketdork: BINGO! Couldn't have said it better myself...


OT-- You into model rockets? I work on the "real" ones. And, yes, it IS rocket science!

_________________
MachineMaskHumidifier
Additional Comments: 11-14 cmH2O
The OSA patient died quietly in his sleep.
Unlike his passengers who died screaming as the car went over the cliff...

jnk
Posts: 5784
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: I'm just sayin'

Post by jnk » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:41 pm

I agree the DMEs are the real customers and that the business of treating sleep apnea is about money, as all businesses are, but the design and features of the machines are still about swaying the user to ask for one machine over another, in my opinion. If not, it seems to me that the companies have sure wasted a whole lot of money aimed at end users. For example, why have manufacturers made the machines smaller, lighter, quieter, more reliable, cuter, more comfortable, easier to use, with data from the screen? Can someone explain to me how those changes over the years have helped their customers, the DMEs?

User avatar
rocketdork
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:56 pm

Re: I'm just sayin'

Post by rocketdork » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:44 pm

jnk wrote:Can someone explain to me how those changes over the years have helped their customers, the DMEs?
Let's start with the smaller lighter prettier concept.
As technology has improved the ability to make the design smaller has been easier. Making it smaller also cost less in packaging, shipping and raw material costs. That lowers over all price to build, therefore price to sell. You'll notice that none of this is passed on to you and I. The prettier is very much what you say, its the customer saying I want it in Pink instead of black. So indirectly, you are right some minor changes have come about as the result of customers asking for one model over another. Keep in mind that most of the users of this forum are more advanced and are shopping *features* instead of cosmetics...we are asking for things that the "normal" customer never even knew existed.

Reliability???
Easy, lower warranty costs. The ins companies will only allow a new machine every 5 years...They know that if they make a machine that breaks down less often, they'll show more profit.

Comfort???
Comfort=compliance=dollars. If you don't use the machine, you don't buy new filters/masks/hoses/snugglies/etc.

Data from the screen?
Again, a phone call is cheaper than a in store customer. Notice that there is a number on all of the machines for the DME to Verify you aren't lying to them about the hours of use/leak/AHI/ETC. Do you think that data was put there for the user? if so, why the number to verify the authenticity of the report? What it comes down to is that the DME can report to the insurance company and doctor whether or not you are using the machine. If they don't have to come to your house, or you don't have to go to their office to gain the information, they save money.

In the end it really does come down to money. If the doctors hadn't demanded the ability to evaluate at a level more than hours of use, there would have never been data compliant machines. IF the DME's hadn't demanded that the data be hard to get to, users would be reading their own data with ease. If you look at most of the features of the machines we use today, you'll find that it really is about generating a revenue stream for the doctors and DME's. Its less about the comfort and convenience of the customer. If that comfort and convenience can cause improved profitability, you'll find it on the machine, if it doesn't, you'll search harder to find it.

If less of us had OSA, there wouldn't exist any machine to help us at all. A good example from recent headlines. The Swine flu has a vaccine that may or may not work, and treatment options. It was a very big deal to the medical world, so much so that it made the news. I just checked the CDC and there have been just over 11,000 cases confirmed in the US with 17 deaths. Malaria kills over 3000 people per day...let me repeat. Malaria kills 3000 people per DAY, yet the swine flu makes the news. WHY? Money my friend, its all about the money. They (the drug companies) stand to make BILLIONS on the swine flu "pandemic" but they don't have that same potential with Malaria.

Admittedly, this is a very pessimistic view of the system, and while it may be an extreme view, I don't believe its far off the mark.

jnk
Posts: 5784
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: I'm just sayin'

Post by jnk » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:08 pm

rocketdork wrote:
jnk wrote:Can someone explain to me how those changes over the years have helped their customers, the DMEs?
Let's start with the smaller lighter prettier concept.
As technology has improved the ability to make the design smaller has been easier. Making it smaller also cost less in packaging, shipping and raw material costs. That lowers over all price to build, therefore price to sell. You'll notice that none of this is passed on to you and I. The prettier is very much what you say, its the customer saying I want it in Pink instead of black. So indirectly, you are right some minor changes have come about as the result of customers asking for one model over another. Keep in mind that most of the users of this forum are more advanced and are shopping *features* instead of cosmetics...we are asking for things that the "normal" customer never even knew existed.

Reliability???
Easy, lower warranty costs. The ins companies will only allow a new machine every 5 years...They know that if they make a machine that breaks down less often, they'll show more profit.

Comfort???
Comfort=compliance=dollars. If you don't use the machine, you don't buy new filters/masks/hoses/snugglies/etc.

Data from the screen?
Again, a phone call is cheaper than a in store customer. Notice that there is a number on all of the machines for the DME to Verify you aren't lying to them about the hours of use/leak/AHI/ETC. Do you think that data was put there for the user? if so, why the number to verify the authenticity of the report? What it comes down to is that the DME can report to the insurance company and doctor whether or not you are using the machine. If they don't have to come to your house, or you don't have to go to their office to gain the information, they save money.

In the end it really does come down to money. If the doctors hadn't demanded the ability to evaluate at a level more than hours of use, there would have never been data compliant machines. IF the DME's hadn't demanded that the data be hard to get to, users would be reading their own data with ease. If you look at most of the features of the machines we use today, you'll find that it really is about generating a revenue stream for the doctors and DME's. Its less about the comfort and convenience of the customer. If that comfort and convenience can cause improved profitability, you'll find it on the machine, if it doesn't, you'll search harder to find it.

If less of us had OSA, there wouldn't exist any machine to help us at all. A good example from recent headlines. The Swine flu has a vaccine that may or may not work, and treatment options. It was a very big deal to the medical world, so much so that it made the news. I just checked the CDC and there have been just over 11,000 cases confirmed in the US with 17 deaths. Malaria kills over 3000 people per day...let me repeat. Malaria kills 3000 people per DAY, yet the swine flu makes the news. WHY? Money my friend, its all about the money. They (the drug companies) stand to make BILLIONS on the swine flu "pandemic" but they don't have that same potential with Malaria.

Admittedly, this is a very pessimistic view of the system, and while it may be an extreme view, I don't believe its far off the mark.
I don't consider your view all that pessimistic, and certainly not extreme. You sound like a realist to me. But I always learn when I play "devil's advocate."

jeff

User avatar
timbalionguy
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:31 pm
Location: Reno, NV

Re: I'm just sayin'

Post by timbalionguy » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:12 pm

I find in talking to people, that a lot more of them are 'on the hose' than I ever realized. I have come to wonder if the whole OSA thing isn't some evil plot to enslave us all, or make us more productive. I am 'lucky' in that my OSA is pretty severe, and treatment is a necessity if I want to continue to function.

Some doctors are evil. Many DME's are evil. I am getting IMHO, much better therapy by keeping the DME out of the loop. That is why we all stick together here!
Lions can and do snore....

User avatar
boston
Posts: 369
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:09 pm

Re: I'm just sayin'

Post by boston » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:59 pm

timbalionguy wrote:Some doctors are evil. Many DME's are evil. I am getting IMHO, much better therapy by keeping the DME out of the loop. That is why we all stick together here!
EXACTLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!