papCAP Chinstrap Product Challenge

See the Announcement Section.

Johnny Goodman is looking for new challengers to the Respironics and ResMed chinstraps.

I'd be happy to provide all the free papCAPs required to do just that. Bring on all challengers.

Feedback (positive, negative, or otherwise) would be appreciated.

GO PAPCAP!

I use my papCAP every night and love it. I have both versions and like the original the best but they are both very good. I would like to see a challenge using papCAP and other chin straps.

Some people can't seem to find the post I'm talking about, so here's my response and a link:

viewtopic/t42277/Product-Challenge-Chin ... Users.html

johnnygoodman wrote:

Howdy CPAPtalkers,

The results of Product Challenge 9 confirmed our suspicion that a suitable chinstrap has yet to be created. The Respironics Premium was too bulky and its fabric too heavy. The Resmed Sullivan fabric is lighter, but does not stay in place properly. This challenge has made clear what CPAP users want in a Chinstrap, here is the list of desired features:

Made of light and breathable material
Made of material that doesn't break down after a few months
Push the jaw "up" instead of "back" or "in"
Stays in place all night
Easy on and off in the dark

As industry leading chinstraps have disappointed Product Challenge 9 participants, our sister website CPAP.com is extending the challenge to aspiring sellers: build a better Chinstrap and will promote and support it. Keep in mind that user feedback is the key indicator of product quality and truly superior chinstraps are proven only by Product Challenges. If you have a Chinstrap that is up to the challenge, contact katherine.fulmer@cpaptalk.com.

Johnny

Johnny, I would be happy to take you up on this offer. The papCAP has received a lot of attention on the forum here and invite you to read any of the hundreds of posts on the product (just search pap cap or papcap).

*It is made of 100% Kona Cotton material, light and breathable. Cotton delivers tension right where it's needed.
*The chinstrap gently closes the jaw and simultaneously pushes up the fleshy part of the chin upwards about 2cm, using the bottom lip to actually seal the airway escape through the mouth. Simply closing the jaw is not sufficient since air easily leaks through the teeth.
*It doesn't break down after a few months. It's made using 4-inch medical grade Velstretch product from Velcro. It's the same stuff used for a variety of medical applications (especially splints, casts, etc.).
*It pushes the jaw gently forward, not back (a feature that Snoredog specifically noted in several posts--he really liked this product, though he did not believe in chinstraps generally--these posts are still on the boards).
*It is highly adjustable both as to tension and orientation, since the chinstrap completely detaches on both sides. Patients can obtain the ideal amount of tension and angle to suit individual needs and anatomy.
*The cotton chinstrap does not deform when under tension. Rather, it delivers tension right where it is supposed to be delivered--to the bottom of the chin. Other materials themselves deform under tension, resulting in, well, failure to deliver results.
*It is stable and stays in place all night because it does not rely on yet more straps around the cranium. Instead, it mounts to a very stable, spherical-shaped cotton platform that distributes tension evenly and comfortably into the shape of the cranium.
*It takes two seconds to remove and replace.

I'd be happy to provide free product for a Product Challenge (chinstrap mode only).

Johnny, test the Papcap.
I used the Papcap w/chinstrap when I first started cpap therapy.
It was instrumental in my success w/the nasal pillows that I started with.

It is comfortable and easy to put on every night.
It does not pull your jaw backwards and is easy to adjust every night.
It is so much more comfortable than the neoprene straps.

It is also a real made in America product.
Created one at a time on state of the art equipment,
by talented, skilled, American hands,
who lost their job "off shore".

This is a fine product that I consider essential cpap equipment.
I have three and use it every night.

There is NO competition for this product.

I'll second carbonman's assessment!!!!
It's definitely worth a whirl Johnny -- Let's do it!!!!

cheers
goose

carbonman wrote:There is NO competition for this product.

Well then it wouldn't be much of challenge then would it?

I agree. If anyone has a need for a chinstrap ... the PapCap is the one to get. I have only used mine about 3 times when trialing my FF mask(s). I normally use a Swift LT.

The PapCap does not work to prevent mouth leaks for me but then NONE of them do ... as the air simply leaks out from between the teeth and flaps the lips. Fortunately for me, mouth leaks very rarely occur with pressures under 12 cm and my ideal effective pressure while sleeping on my side is under that threshold ... lucky me.

When I trialed the Hybrid and Liberty masks however, the PaCap did a fine job of keeping my jaw in place and preventing the lower FF mask straps from cranking my jaw/mouth open, preventing the dry mouth issue common with FF masks.

I highly recommend a chinstrap for use with FF masks but find ALL of them totally useless with non-FF masks.

SleepGuy,

Since you emailed me and asked me to put my comments in this discussion, I will, although I can see that it won't be popular.

I am in the position of having tried all three of the chinstraps mentioned in this thread.

First, I tried the Resmed/Sullivan single band chinstrap. What a ridiculous design that is. I had to make pony tails in my hair and thread it through to keep it in place. It didn't matter that the material was softer or that it had a little white arrow to tell the front from the back. It wouldn't stay put on the head and should never have been put on the market to further frustrate people who are already struggling with a lot of new equipment.

So, I was excited to try the PapCap, which I used for many months. It was better than the Sullivan but not perfect. It is cotton and lightweight but if you suffer from night sweats, like I do, having a cap strapped to your head and mashing your hair down is pure misery. It was tolerable in the winter but even with air conditioning and a fan blowing on me it wasn't going to work in the summer. Even worse than the heat was the flaps in the back. There is a flap coming down and two flaps that cross over each other all in the same place in the back of my head. The two cross straps have velcro attached, making a lump of five thicknesses in one spot. Being a back sleeper, this was very uncomfortable. The underchin strap is straight and does not cup the chin. It's a couple of inches wide and dug into my neck, leaving a line that took a couple of hours to go away. I am not overweight, so I can imagine it would be worse for those who are.

A couple of months ago, my DME gave me the Respironics chinstrap with back stabilizing strap. I let it sit for a few weeks and then as the weather warmed, decided to try it. I like it a lot. Even though it is a little big for me and there is a lot of strap left over at the top, it doesn't bother me. The underchin strap is also a little big and comes all the way up to the bottom of my Activa, firmly pressing down on the 2 inch tape that I use to keep the air from escaping my lips. The Activa holds down the top of the tape, as it covers my upper lip. The tape actually protects my lips from the silicone and the chinstrap, making them more tolerable to me. I'm very sensitive to things touching my face so this whole process has been difficult. This premium chinstrap is much cooler, allowing my hair to be free and heat to escape from the top of my head. There is only one smooth strap going around the back of my head which causes no discomfort. I have not had any problem with the material separating as some mentioned in the trials. I have never had this chinstrap move or come off during the night. The strap is designed to keep the chin up without any backwards pull.

This is only my personal opinion and, of course everyone is different, but from my experience, the Respironics Premium chinstrap is clearly the best of the three that I have tried. And much cheaper than the PapCap, if that makes a difference to anyone besides me.

Bev

carbonman wrote:
It is also a real made in America product.
Created one at a time on state of the art equipment,
by talented, skilled, American hands,
who lost their job "off shore".

I've had two recently and the stitching came loose and they both fell apart

They did work for me while they stayed together briefly. Sometimes i woke with the cap slipped forwards half covering my eyes but thats a minor issue.

I found the side straps very useful in keeping my Swift LT mask in position for the entire night.

I still leak air through my mouth though and needed to mouth tape so I'm back on the Quattro FFM with a Respironics premium chinstrap.

Bev, thanks very much for your comments. They are actually appreciated more than the praise. My intent is not to create a marketing "hug fest" but to use the forum to help figure out if there's a way to make it better without altering the core functionality of the thing. So your comments about the chinstrap causing marks have caused me to wonder if there's away to make the edge softer (such as by moving the seams). As for the multiple thickneses on the back and the heat, I belive that your version had the original, very large neck flap (I can't recall). That's a valid comment as well as your experience about the night sweats. So this is all good.

I have been thinking about changing the top panels to a nylon mesh material. Do you think that would help? I kind of doubt it since it seems to have more to do with female hair mass than anything else. Another option under consideration is a "long hair" version that does something completely different with the flap / hair. Sounds like it's time to make a prototype and test it out.

UncleBob, thanks as well. It seems like moving the bottom lip upwards a few cm by pressing on the fleshy part of the chin does the trick for most people but that does not appear to be the case with you. If you care to send the other cap back I would be happy to have it repaired (and reimburse the shipping costs).