420e vs remstar auto. Just got mine.

Got my 420e today. I plugged it up and breathed a few times, so haven't tried it yet. My observations up front:

420E vs remstar auto:

1. green light on front to signify integrated humidifier is on, is much dimmer on 420 and harder to see than on the remstar.
2. 420 manual says to unplug humidifier before turning machine off, doesn't say that in remstar manual.
3. 420 manual says to disconnect humidifier when machine is not on, doesn't say that in remstar manual.
4. Buttons are a little easier to push on remstar.
5. The humidifier controls on the back of 420 is a bad design, and the on/off button and control knob feel cheap.
6. Have to carry 420 machine to computer (if no laptop). For remstar, only carry a card.
7. So far it seems the remstar is better planned with integrated plug, auto humidifier off, etc.

Hopefully these things won't matter in the long run. I am just trying to compare features at first glance.

420 is much smaller.
The software looks really interesting. Never got to see remstar software.


I AM excited about my machine, but I don't like change, and have been using the remstar auto for a month.
I don't like the remstar in auto mode much so far. Have been using straight cpap with no cflex. I will report back after I use the 420e tonight, and after I try 420 in auto mode.

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): 420E, humidifier, cflex, CPAP, auto

seagull,

Give it a week or two and then decide. I know you were just listing your immediate observations. I have a Remstar Auto, too, with Cflex and, yes, the downloading of the software data, to me, seems much easier than having to carry your machine to the computer. One of the main reasons I went with the Remstar. But from what I've heard, the software with the 420e is very user-friendly and more geared towards the user, unlike the Encorepro which is totally geared toward the clinican. Thanks to Derek and MyEncore, he made things much easier to understand until you get used to the Encorepro.

Let us know how it goes after a few days. I have a strong hunch you're going to be happy with it. If people like Rested Gal sing its praises, you know it's got to be a good machine. Good luck with it and pleasant dreams.

First night with goodknight 420.
One point in my earlier post, #2 is irrelevant. The remstars humidifier is plugged into remstar, so you wouldn't have to unplug that before turning machine off.
I do think the remstar is a better planned machine physically. I am stating these things to help others make a decision on machine.

1. The controls can be lit up green so you can see them on the remstar. Controls on 420 are not lit up.
2. If you have arthritis in your hands (I don't) the remstar buttons are much easier to push
3. The humidifier on remstar shuts off when machine is shut off. I shut off the 420 sometime during the night and totally forgot about the humidifer. I will probably get used to it and remember to unplug and turn it off. Unplugging it during the night while you are real groggy will be a pain. DO ANY OF YOU DO THIS WITH THIS MACHINE? (UNPLUG HUMIDIFIER) BEFORE TURNING OFF THE MACHINE.????
4. As someone else mentioned earlier, the rubber connector between the humidifier and the machine on the 420 does not make as good of a connection as the one on the remstar does. I think it may be because the humidifier on 420 just slides out, and on the remstar the humidifier must be pressed down and then slid. So more stable contact with the humidifier connection on the remstar. I noticed leaking around the connection on the 420, and had to push humidifer onto machine better. The remstar has a metal rim at hole which seems to hold seal better.
4a. This morning I heard a horrible high pitch sound as I exhaled, and realized it was coming from that connection. The humidifier had obviously pulled away from the machine just barely. I shoved it back in and the noise stopped. Yay.
5. The remstar has auto on and off, as you put on mask and take it off.(The loaner remstar I have has not turned off by itself though) that part may be defective).
6. A replacement hose for remstar is 9-11 dollars (universal hose). The 420 special hose is over 30.00.
7. A replacement electrical cord for remstar is about 6-10 dollars. A replacement electrical cord for the 420 is 40.00.

I will probably buy another plug to keep in computer room so I don't have to bring the plug in to look at results on computer.

So far the only real thing on the plus side for the 420e is its much smaller size, and it is a lot cuter. It doesn't look so much like hospital equipment like the remstar does. I am not sure guys will like the lavender color on the control panel though. Other than that, for functionality, the remstar has the 420 beat by a long shot. I may purchase the remstar pro a friend of mine has (will sell it to me for a good price) just to have both. I would have bought that one to begin with, but I wanted software.

I guess so far (only going on design and not performance) the remstar seems to be the better machine to me.) I reckon that is why it is more expensive too.
I am not complaining about the 420 I am just comparing the machines. Well maybe complaining just a little, about the plug and humidifier to machine rubber connector.

Unplugging it during the night while you are real groggy will be a pain. DO ANY OF YOU DO THIS WITH THIS MACHINE? (UNPLUG HUMIDIFIER) BEFORE TURNING OFF THE MACHINE.????

(Why would you want to do that in the middle of the night when you're groggy?)

According to the manual, the humdifier should be turned off before turning off the cpap, and after you turn off the cpap, you should disconnect it from the humidifier. Nothing about unplugging the humidifier from the electricity. If you make a habit of turning off the humidifier before you turn off the cpap, you'll less liable to forget it.

I don't unplug the humidifier from the electricity. I do disconnect the machine from the humidifier, because the humidity in the humidifier is high, and the machine may be harmed by it. I turn it 90 degrees, so that the machine's air exit isn't right near the humidifier's entrance. This is not necessary as long as the GoodKnight is blowing air across the wate.

The integrated humidifier of the PB has to be pushed in firmly till you feel/hear a slight click. In order to take it out, you then have to push it down, and out. Once firmly inside, (in my experience) it will not slide out "just like that".

The remstar has auto on and off, as you put on mask and take it off.(The loaner remstar I have has not turned off by itself though) that part may be defective).

This is not a bug, this is a feature (really...). If you have the automatic shut down on, you have to have the alarm off, and vice versa...

The remstar has auto on and off, as you put on mask and take it off.

OH!!! So THAT explains why that happens to me all the time !!!

The humidifier on remstar shuts off when machine is shut off. I shut off the 420 sometime during the night and totally forgot about the humidifer. I will probably get used to it and remember to unplug and turn it off. Unplugging it during the night while you are real groggy will be a pain. DO ANY OF YOU DO THIS WITH THIS MACHINE? (UNPLUG HUMIDIFIER) BEFORE TURNING OFF THE MACHINE.??

I've read of users on this forum being annoyed with the RemStar humidifier system because it shuts itself off when the machine is shut off. They get up to go to the can during the night and forget to turn the humidifier back on

I think there is some value to having the heat on while there is water in the humidifier chamber as the heat causes the metal plate on the chamber to expand and keep a good seal. My RemStar humidifier has leaked when I have left water in it with the heat turned off. Having to remember to turn the humidifier off on the 420 is a pain in the morning, but I just make it part of the routine, just like turning it on at night.

I do not unplug the humidifier except to travel.

I have been cautioned by the equipment supplier here that there is a concern with the power cord coming out of the RemStar humidifier. If you travel with your machine, you have to be careful that you don't put the humidifier into the travel bag with the cord end downward as this puts a big bend in the cord and it can fail. This is a poor design on the RemStar -the cord should have been removeable from the humidifier like it is on the RemStar CPAP.

The controls can be lit up green so you can see them on the remstar. Controls on 420 are not lit up

I don't think this is a design flaw, just a design choice. I hated the glowing lights on the RemStar -I don't like any light in the room when I am trying to sleep. I can see, however, how some would like this.

As someone else mentioned earlier, the rubber connector between the humidifier and the machine on the 420 does not make as good of a connection as the one on the remstar does. I think it may be because the humidifier on 420 just slides out, and on the remstar the humidifier must be pressed down and then slid. So more stable contact with the humidifier connection on the remstar. I noticed leaking around the connection on the 420, and had to push humidifer onto machine better. The remstar has a metal rim at hole which seems to hold seal better.

Good point. I've had this whistling happen on both the RemStar and the 420. I had it happen more on the RemStar as you do have to push down the tank when you insert it. If you do not push it down hard enough, it bangs into the silicone coupler and pushs it too far against the CPAP machine. The little metal ring does help to lessen the chance that this will happen, but it does not eliminate it. The solution is to simply pull the coupler off the CPAP, insert it onto the water tank and then insert the tank into the humidifier while you have your other hand on the top of the CPAP so that it does not move. The little pegs on both the RemStar and 420 are not enough to hold the machine stable -needs a hand pressing down slightly on the CPAP while inserting the tank.

A replacement hose for remstar is 9-11 dollars (universal hose). The 420 special hose is over 30.00.

Apples and oranges -you probably paid more to purchase the RemStar than you did to purchase the 420. There's the dollar difference in what you will pay for a replacement hose.

I am not sure guys will like the lavender color on the control panel though.

You have got to be kidding with this one! WHO CARES what colour the little panel is? It can be hot pink for all I care as long as it works well and gives good treatment.

The remstar has auto on and off, as you put on mask and take it off.(The loaner remstar I have has not turned off by itself though) that part may be defective).

Before concluding that this is a defective device, you might want to review the documentation that came with it... -the auto on/off is a feature that you can change.

Other than that, for functionality, the remstar has the 420 beat by a long shot.

I can't say that I agree with this statement at all. Both have pros and cons; I don't think either has the other "beat by a long shot."

Not withstanding all of this, the bottom line is how well the algorithm in the machine treats the user.

Seagull, if you ever decide you want to sell your slightly used 420E, please let me know.

Sleepless on LI wrote:

The remstar has auto on and off, as you put on mask and take it off.

OH!!! So THAT explains why that happens to me all the time :oops: !!!

Got it---- I have the alarm on!!! So no auto off?


osij, The machine manual looks like it was printed before the integrated humidifier. In my Goodknight H2O heated humidifier manual, at the end of the end treatment section it DOES state to disconnect humidifer power before turning 420 unit off. It is not listed under the CAUTION section like disconnecting the humidifer, but above that. After turn off humidifier. Ha, seems like those two steps should be reversed. Maybe I won't worry about it if no one else does it. That is probably a safety factor -extra thing to help you remember to turn the unit off.

Ok rested gal-- you get first go at it should I sell it.

rested gal or will succeed-- can you tell me how to set the compliance meter ON??? I set up my software and it says compliance off. I read some things about compliance in manuals, but can't seem to find that now, and am having manual reading overload!!!!
Also with all my hyponeas, and so I don't have to read all the threads again, in your opinion should I have F1 on or off. I turned it off. I can't remember the conversation. I probably will search the threads though.

Will Succeed-- I am female and the lavender is even a little to femme for me. lol. Thanks y'all.


CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): auto

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): humidifier, Power, auto

rested gal, will succeed. I found the 1fl1 thread, about runaway pressure. I guess I will try it on then first. Still need help with compliance meter.

There's one point in the Sliverliing, software, when it read the data from the machine the it says "compliance off". Since this is a French creation, what it means by that is: This machine is not gatherin real time data now.

Yes, the 420e can be setup to gather real time data into your computer, supposedly (I've never tried it) you can see your breathing graph on the screen.

O.

There's a REMstar Auto with only 336 hours on it for sale on yahoo auctions: REMstar Auto for sale
It's currently at $182.50 but you better hurry if you want to get your bid in because the auction ends in 4 hours.

Turn off humidifier, turn on the humidifier, plug in the humidifier, unplug the humidifier, connect, disconnect, control panel color, instruction manual, button lights, yadda yadda yadda. It sure sounds an awful lot like you've already made up your mind to NOT like the 420E.

I've had my little 420E with humidifier and my Ultra Mirage FF mask for about 8 months now. I travel about once a month and it goes wherever I go. I pretty much ignore the advice/instructions regarding the on-off stuff, disconnect, etc. I figure if it's going to break, why not mistreat the darn thing by doing the least possible (meaning fill the humidifier at night, get in bed, turn on the blower and then, in the morning, only thing I do is turn off the blower! ) then let break early on and get it over with! I don't unplug anything, turn off the humidifier, disconnect anything, heck, I barely clean my mask once a month or so....whether it needs it or not! After all, it's under warranty, no? Alas, all to no avail....like the Eveready Bunny, it just keeps going and going and going.

But, come to think of it, isn't that what I wanted? A solid, reliable APAP that decreases my AHI from 105 without APAP to somewhere around 1? A machine that works so darn good that it doesn't bother my wife? Heck, it got her back into bed with me!!! It's a portable machine I can carry through airports all day long, get to hotel, set up in about 1 minute, is unobtrusive on my bedside table, doesn't keep me up with lights shining at night, has software that even I can understand and interpret, is easily portable to my computer alllll the way across the house and back....well, hopefully you've gotten the idea by now that I really REALLY like my 420E.

I would advise you to give your 420E a fair try, but, like I said above, it sounds like you've already made up your mind. But, you know what? You don't HAVE to like the 420E! The choice of APAP/CPAP units that you get is ultimately up to YOU, so get a machine that YOU like and, most importantly, USE IT! USE IT EVERY NIGHT! EVERY NAP! USE IT, USE IT, USE IT! That's what is important for all of us, I think. OK, rant over.

Good luck in your treatment! This therapy WORKS!!!

and darn it all......I am STILL waiting for MY 420E "special order" to arrive at my DME. Funny how it takes so much longer to get a pretty common machine through a DME that is 5 minutes away, than to just mail order a machine.

I plan to take care of the "chicken or the egg" issue with the humidifier by having it all plugged into a power bar when I am at home and just hitting the kill switch on THAT, just like I do for my Remstar auto...or my computer stuff. Then which is off or on first is down to an arguement between a couple of electrons as to got there first.....

I also put my heated hose for the 420E on order already, which interestingly enough is the same price as a "regular" heated hose if I recall correctly, or actually cheaper if you take into account that I don't have to buy a Radio Shack power supply for it.

But the other issues I can't speak to, until I GET me 420E...sigh.....

So far, from what I have heard though, I am not worried about my choice. I am REALLY looking forward to the smaller size for travel if nothing else.

seagull, I must agree with TXKajun, you seem concerned with the minutia.

--one humidifier has to be turned off
--one light is dimmer than another
--one button is easier to press than another
--a knob feels cheap
--you don't like the color of the control panel

I am very interested in how you find your treatment compares between the 420e and the REMstar Auto. I really hope before you post any further comparison analysis you'll wait at least a week or two so we may learn of your actual therapy results and how you are feeling after that time.

BTW --

seagul wrote:If you have arthritis in your hands (I don't) the remstar buttons are much easier to push

I do have arthritis in both my hands and the buttons are not the least bit difficult to push on the 420e.

Before seagull gets scared away by everyone coming down heavy on their reports......

Seagull did point out these are just INITIAL OBSERVATIONS about the MACHINE, from a personal perspective.
EVERY machine has its issues and downsides. I find it interesting to hear these nitpicks on the machine that usually don't come up. Although its also interesting hearing some of the replies which do COMPARE to other machines or give work arounds or point out the tradeoffs.

I am looking forward to this level of analysis on the RESULTS of therapy from the machine after giving it a try for awhile. And even that will only be one person's perspective and will not apply to ALL people, due to differences in people. People are not a very consisten product...

Now if seagull tosses away the machine because of the color of the control panel, I will recant my defense....