Experience of Ontario Canada CPAP users?

Have you been happy with your supplier?

I find mine does not offer choices for mask selection, and has never provided sufficient information to me as a cpap user.

I've been compliant for 9 years because of newsgroup participants. I recently found this forum and another one, and I'm impressed with the quality of people and posts here.

I've just bought my second cpap unit after 9 years. I could have bought much more cheaply in a competetive market.

How do you find cpap suppliers? (I would love to find a better choice than mine.)

I was very fortunate to be referred by virtue of geographics to http://www.charltonrespiratory.com

A shameless plug because the Director,Rod Chalmers,bent over backwards to service my requests.Awesome.
My experience anyway...

Serving:Toronto-Golden Horseshoe-Tri-City-Barrie-Kingston

Where are you Dave?

While well intentioned the folks at my DME are really pretty clueless other than the standard sales pitch. I too did not get any instruction other than how to clean the machine. I only started on cpap a month ago but already had made comment about the disconnect between doctor/sleep lab to DME and end user.

Once I get my energy up even more I was going to start some research on experiences in Ontario. I really think that CCAC should be involved in a step along the process. Probably the best route would be after or during machine selection and a home visit to help you set up, learn the sounds of the equip, how to check you readings (if data capable etc). If it weren't for the internet and the fine folks here and elsewhere I would have been like a little lost sheep amidst a pack of wolves.

I personally can't complain about the speed of referral to actual sleep study and getting my cpap but the lack of communication through the varying levels was frustrating to me.

My experience last week at the DME is in another thread I have titled "remember that high pitch noise". It was less than stellar. While reasonably amiable except the one girl there it's hard to convey to someone who doesn't actually have to sleep with these things some of the issues surrounding them. I tend not to settle so the repeated line of "oh well you'll just have to get used to it" when my gut tells me there is a problem doesn't go very far.

Still working on that one. I would have liked to have been shown how to fit the mask properly, etc, not just how to clean the thing.

I'm in Hazeltown, just west of the GTAA. (Don't mind the noise; just don't like it when I have to duck! For others, that's the Pearson airport. My wife reminds me not to put much info on the internet...)

Here's my history:
9 years ago--
1-1/2 years to get an appointment from my gp
2 months to get results
reported as on the bottom edge of severe sleep apnea.

Bought a cpap/humidifier/mask without any instruction, from the designated DME for too much money.

now--
DME looks at machine and adjusts pressure back by 2...says it's blowing too hard. Instant apnea symptoms. Pressure had never been checked before. Thanks a lot.
Complaints about machine? NOISY, and much mask leakage. It affected my wife's sleeping for 9 years!

New machine?
Quieter.
Humidifier is easier to use.
Bag is smaller and easier to carry onto aircraft
Mask wasn't my choice.
My wife sleeps better.
Had to look here to determine whether pressure could be adjusted by the owner. Of course that's illegal.

I had several machines/brands to choose from. The entry level brand I chose wasn't available. In my best interests, but isn't this awful close to bait and switch?

No mention of chin straps, hose insulators, strap covers, or anything else.

They didn't have the mask I requested. They had a display one, used by others. They wouldn't allow substitution for the provided mask, so I took it.

I asked my provider if she had ever had a sleep test. No. I asked if she had slept with one. She said she tried; couldn't stand it and removed it in less than an hour. Good thing she doesn't have to be compliant. She wouldn't last.

All in all they sell cpap like Macs sells milk. I would have given up long ago if other cpap users hadn't helped.

Please excuse my rant.

My goal?

Find a sleep specialist I can trust!

Find a provider that will assist me to be as comfortable as I can be.

Find a provider who will sell to me, a Canadian resident, with good service and competetive prices.

I truly, truly appreciate the help of others here and will willingly help others without ranting in future.

Thanks 5aces!

I've looked at that site. Interesting! and appreciate the mission statement.

Thanks Froro!

I regularly tighten my mask too much. Call me scarface in the morning at work! Ask me why no scars later...tell them it's makeup.

I know what you mean.

LOL. Honestly. I wish I'd seen the Hamilton Center that 5aces mentioned. I met with him quickly last week and within a minute of talking I could see such a difference in attitude between his DME and mine.

I was not informed about rainout, they did however include a hosecover, mask of choice and machine of choice. I knew what I wanted before I went in there anyway based on stuff I found online.

If you don't mind the drive to Hamilton (or even downtown Toronto for that clinic..about the same distance for me as I'm just by Credit Valley Hosp. I think I'm going to check out that location for my next equipment set up when needed.

My sleep clinic sent me out with my script and a wave with a follow up appointment in a year.

Anyhow..once I'm totally back on track I hope you won't mind me sending you some questions regarding this whole experience and how it relates to health care in the province. I'm going to try and collect some data from varying regions and put together something. I'll be contacting sleep centers, users would be best if I can, CCAC, doctors etc. I swore I'd never get into politics as I grew up as I was surrounded by family in but by George, I'll use all those connections now as much as I can. (I have a friend in the "sticks" who has up until now been relying on his DME and sleep lab thinking they were to be followed by the letter. It's only when I nearly passed out as he told me his last mask cost him $500 from the DME did he realize I knew more in a month than what he had been blindly following). It's crazy!!!

You have found the right place.

Hey, welcome to the forum! Just a small tangent - if you might be interested in test driving the Nasal Aire II mask, I have one making the rounds in Canada right now. Just PM me your info, and I'll put you on the list.

For more information about this mask, and free test drives (so you can try a mask before buying it), click the links below in my signature block.

Welcome!!
Barbara

Hello all:

I am located on beautiful Lake Simcoe and for all the posted reasons I am on a machine and mask, the Machine is a S8 ellite II with a nasel pillow mask, I started in Newmarket at the sleep clinic at the Tannery mall and then to my sleep Dr., I then accepted his good advise and waited a year before my sleep got worse and getting out of bed was a major job and staying awake all day was impossible, so I went back to sleep clinic as per my shrink advice and then to sleep dr who prescribed machine, I never got the prescription his secretary sent it to the Medigas office directly and then they called me, they spent about an hour explaining all the machines (Risperonics and Resmed) and how to put on the mask and clean the units and use the ramp feature ( I ditched it right away) my setting was 7 cm H2O, I did not feel better but had no problems using the mask, called my sleep dr. he set up another sleep study which went well and they upped my pressure to 9.

Reviewed my results with shrink last week and even though I have not had an overnight sensation I am getting better sleep. I use the mask and machine each night and that is the facts if I am destined to use it so be it.

I have not used the computer card as of yet but I plan on it, Medigas will review the results with me. They are affiliated with the sleep lab in Newmarket.

I guess to sum it up I have not had a bad experience on my journey so far but Maybe I am wrong and just niave.

regards


Vance

Hopefully you get some good local referrals, but I'd say that you have probably THE BEST supplier right here in https://www.cpap.com. You can get everything that you need from them at better prices and maybe better service than some of your local medical suppliers. It's easy to buy online too, anytime you feel like it vs. making appts. for the hours that the local place is open. Also, you can shop around online and CPAP.com will match the lower prices of others. You can also get many new supplies for even less money from http://www.cpapauction.com , also provided by CPAP.com like this forum. CPAP.com also has user reviews and ratings for each product, sizing questionairres and templates, how to videos, articles and so much reference material. And they've been responsive to me with any questions that I've had, either by email or phone. They've even provided a clinician's manual for one person despite the machine not being purchased through them. WHAT DME is going to do that? They won't even give you the clinician's manual.

If you're thinking that you need the DME's on site advice or service, then your experience so far has proven that can be hit or miss, and compared to this forum, NO DME is going to have experiences with ALL the possible types of equipment or supplies that the users of this forum have and who will gladly help you with.

So, rather than going to look for limited service in your area, consider ditching them and use this forum and CPAP.com, cpapauction.com for anything that you might need. It's worked incredibly well for me. I live 3 hrs to the nearest DME which was a horrible experience in 3 visits to them when I first tried PAP therapy a few years ago before quitting based on poor service, poor selection, high rip off prices and misinformation. Then I found this forum, then cpap.com and the companion auction site and set myself up using Cpap.com's sizing templates, user reviews and reference resources to figure out all what I needed. So I didn't have to deal with a poorly informed or supplied DME, no ill advice, no high prices, no long 6 hr. wasted return trips, etc.. I also don't use insurance and the relief of paying out of my own pocket but having independance and freedom to choose what I want than be forced into what an insurance company or poorly supplied DME wants to sell me, is totally worth every penny to me.

Try it, you'll like it.

Just to let you know. My equipment only cost me $200 out of pocket. Ohip covered the $780 and insurance picked up the tab for the balance less my deductable. I did have a choice of what machine I wanted, no strings there, and as mentioned earlier, I was able to choose my mask, etc.

My machine also comes with a 5 year warranty vs the standard three year. I think honestly, once the exhange rate is factored in (especially right now) it's not that much of a savings.

I live in Quebec but I am in the Ottawa-Gatineau region so I have some experience on the Ontario side.

The Quebec government does not recognize apnea as a condition so they offer no assistance as does Ontario. Fortunately, my group plan picks up 100% of the cost up to a maximum of $2,000. I was able to get the Quattro Mask and AutoSet machine for $2,038... so I was out of pocket $38.

For this equipment I dealt with VitalAire over in Ottawa.

Did they help me all they could have? No.
Did they push the sale of the machine? Yes.
Have the followed up with me? No.

The only reason I continue to do business with them is because supplies are reimbursed at 100% with no cap. I just picked up $500 worth of supplies and have been reimbursed.

The VitalAire Respiratory Techs are nothing more than glorified sales agent... at least that was my experience. They need to be much less obvious about that and push more on the therapy side and providing information to the patient. I'm certain some folks get upset with their 90% sales / 10% therapy way of doing things and walk away. I bet their sales would actually increase if they were to reverse that... 90% therapy / 10% sales.

Oh well, we all have to go through the process once to learn the ropes and decide how we will proceed the next time. I may end up purchasing a backup machine and keep using my Autoset until it stops working.

I bought my first cpap machine and mask, etc from an Ontario Provider 7 years ago. Assistive Devices Program and my Extended Health Plan at the time covered 100%. I had to wait months for the sleep study and would have had to wait months longer after diagnosis for titration, if I had not gone on a cancellation list (I had been diagnosed with severe OSA) and enlisted the help of my family doctor to speed things up.

I used it for just over 5 years.

I was beginning to feel more fatigued in the the fall of 2007. I set the wheels in motion for another sleep study. That was October 2007. The sleep study finally took place in April 2008. By then, I had been on this forum and looked at cpap.com. I purchased some mask replacements and other items from them. The shipping is very reasonable and there are no duty or customs charges since cpap.com ships through the post office as "Medical Equipment".

In February 2008,I went ahead and bought an APAP plus integrated humidifier and Software and Reader online with my 6 year old prescription for a cpap and my own money for way less that the machine and humidifier would cost in Ontario even with the Assistive Devices Program. My current Extended Health Plan will not pay as much either. With the help of this forum, I was able to get my pressure well set up so that I was doing very well by the time the sleep study rolled around in April. I thought that it would be good to go anyway because I would probably get a new prescription (you can't buy any machine in Ontario, even if you are willing to pay for it all yourself - at 3 times the cost of an online US supplier - without a very recent prescription) and I might get an M Series Pro as a good backup for my machine with the Asssitive Devices Program again since it was more than 5 years. I also wanted to make sure nothing else was going on with my sleep.

By the way, my sleep study, such as it was, placed my pressure at 9 cm with AHI 4.2. My old prescription said 10 cm which I had been at for 6+ years. I was at a pressure range of 10.3 cm to 13 cm on my Auto (90% - 12 cm) and getting AHIs below 1 almost 100% of the time. Go figure!!!

I finally had a followup with the Sleep Specialist in August 2008. His findings - no new prescription just a pressure adjustment. I never told him I had an auto that I bought myself.
I asked him about the fact that my old machine was more than 6 years old and might quit at any time and that there were comfort features now available that were not 6 years ago. His reply - if and when it quits AND cannot be repaired you will get a prescription for a new machine.

I now buy everything online. I just recently got an M Series Pro on cpapauction. It only has 83 hours on it and works great. I got this with my 7+ year old prescription as well. It's a great backup, packed in it's carry case with the integrated humidfier (I have since bought the F&P stand alone humidifier for home use), a hose and a spare mask for travel.

As far as I'm concerned, I will probably never have another sleep study. I certainly won't see that Specialist again ever. I will continue to buy online at 1/3 the cost of anything in Ontario, even with the exchange rate and a lot more selection!

Like others from Ontario here, my experience with sleep medicine in this Province leaves much to be desired to say the very least!

With this forum and cpap.com I am way ahead in terms of treating my sleep apnea well.

I definitely second Hawthorne's comments - lousy service, RTs with little knowledge, sleep doctor who spends 5 minutes with you, and obscenely high prices. I got my machine through a DME, but bought my masks (brand new) for less than 1/3 their prices on CPAP Auction. I go to my DME (occasionally) only to have my data card read and reports printed out - not sure I want to pay for the software and card reader / USB cable, as I get basic daily data from my machine.

I think the whole sleep industry in Ontario is definitely on the sleazy side of the medical profession, with most participants being arrogant, focussed totally on sales, and abetted by lazy insurance companies who willingly pay obscenely high prices because they just past the cost on to their clients. I think it would be really enlightening to see who owns the various sleep clinics and DMEs, and to look at which clinics patronize which DMEs.

Anyone know a good investigative reporter who might be interested in looking into this?

Thank God for this forum and all the wonderful people who share their knowledge and experience.

Hawthorne wrote: Like others from Ontario here, my experience with sleep medicine in this Province leaves much to be desired to say the very least!

That strikes a bit of a chord with me.

I live in Quebec but my family Doctor is in Ontario... this happens a lot in the Ottawa-Gatineau region. Fortunately my Doc doesn't mind billing Quebec for his services.

On the other hand the sleep Doc at the sleep lab refused to even spend 2 minutes with me because I'm from Quebec and he does not want to go through the "trouble" of billing them. So I was deprived of his comments... whether they would have been useful or not is a matter for another discussion.

I seem to be doing okay on my own... thankfully I don't have a complicated sleep case.

Is this how it is for other health care issues... that the patients fall through the cracks at some point and are on their own? Apnea is the first time I have encountered this personally.

Paul56 wrote: Is this how it is for other health care issues... that the patients fall through the cracks at some point and are on their own?

We are coming from an era of Canadian Healthcare that has been left behind.
I remember as a child the Family Doctor housecalls,the length of appointments,in-hospital stays and 'personal' care.
If you went to see your family physicain he would see your treatment through to the end,with little involvement on your part,other than taking the medication/treatments and showing up for appointments.
All you needed to know he tried to take the time to provide.

Now,it would seem that most of the good physicians have joined 'clinics' and done away with the private office model.
These clinics are open for walk-ins and emergency medicine and in between,your doc will have a window of time when 'regular' patients are booked in.
Really, a faster more prolific pace ensues.If you have more than a couple questions/issues you must book more time in advanced they are scheduled so tight.
This has never been more apparent since my cardiac and OSA issues have evolved.
I have been forced to do alot of my own research and take a genuine interest in my medical data and condition.
The days of being in the Medical Cradle have most certainly passed.
Lord knows I miss those old doctors!
Times have changed."Do your homework" is the new mantra...