A Question re: my AUTOPAP Trial

Here's an interesting update on the subject of this thread:

I called the doctor's office this morning to find out if they had mailed me the detailed report yet, since I returned the machine to them six days ago. The Clinical Director got on the phone and told me that the "good news" is that the report indicates that I'm at the right pressure of 14. I asked when I could expect to receive a copy of the report, and she told me in no uncertain terms that she will NOT be giving me a copy of the report because "the autopap trial was done as a favor to you and was not prescribed by a physician." I asked, "Isn't this report a part of my medical record?" She agreed that it was but reiterated that she would not be giving me a copy of it. Then she hung up on me.

I guess it's just more proof that my leaving this doctor's care was the right course of action.

BleepingBeauty wrote:Here's an interesting update on the subject of this thread:

I called the doctor's office this morning to find out if they had mailed me the detailed report yet, since I returned the machine to them six days ago. The Clinical Director got on the phone and told me that the "good news" is that the report indicates that I'm at the right pressure of 14. I asked when I could expect to receive a copy of the report, and she told me in no uncertain terms that she will NOT be giving me a copy of the report because "the autopap trial was done as a favor to you and was not prescribed by a physician." I asked, "Isn't this report a part of my medical record?" She agreed that it was but reiterated that she would not be giving me a copy of it. Then she hung up on me.

I guess it's just more proof that my leaving this doctor's care was the right course of action.

Turn 'em into the Feds.
If that's part of your medical record, they have to give it to you. There ain't no "because" or "favor" exclusions in the law.

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/index.html

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/un ... rights.pdf


Den

Wulfman wrote:Turn 'em into the Feds.
If that's part of your medical record, they have to give it to you. There ain't no "because" or "favor" exclusions in the law.

Den

Thanks, Den. I made a few phone calls in the wake of that conversation with the Clinical Director this morning, and wheels are in motion.

How sad that the actual stories never make it on to this site... how about the truth? I guess that wouldn't be melodramatic enough for a good story. If patients were more honest with their providers they might be able to get somewhere with issues... the shame is that they are not always forthcoming and frankly many are out to just cause trouble. In the end, if patients don't work with their provider, the provider can't help the patient. It's as simple as that. Have fun with your drama on here.

First post attacking not just one person, but all of us. Don't guess you'll hang around. Our stories are the truth of people living with xpap. Every story told here is different from the last. The people who post here are the people learned to live with xpap, instead of throwing it in a closet. Each of us has arrived with our own truths and we are willing share with people who we will never meet. This is a great site with caring people willing to share. If you don't like us, move on.

waytootired wrote:How sad that the actual stories never make it on to this site... how about the truth? I guess that wouldn't be melodramatic enough for a good story. If patients were more honest with their providers they might be able to get somewhere with issues... the shame is that they are not always forthcoming and frankly many are out to just cause trouble. In the end, if patients don't work with their provider, the provider can't help the patient. It's as simple as that. Have fun with your drama on here.

waytootired wrote:How sad that the actual stories never make it on to this site... how about the truth? I guess that wouldn't be melodramatic enough for a good story. If patients were more honest with their providers they might be able to get somewhere with issues... the shame is that they are not always forthcoming and frankly many are out to just cause trouble. In the end, if patients don't work with their provider, the provider can't help the patient. It's as simple as that. Have fun with your drama on here.

You want the TRUTH? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!

If the "providers" would treat their patients (clients) with some R E S P E C T, instead of trying to keep them in the dark about everything, maybe it could become a working partnership.

You want actual "stories"? Go back through the many, many pages of threads on the forum and start reading. Why do you think people seek out the forums for answers? It is, for the most part, because they've been poorly served by their providers, medical professionals, etc.
It's a two-way street, but the providers work FOR the patients. It's the patients that are paying for the services and they're getting screwed. If you hired a mechanic to fix your car and he did a lousy job, you wouldn't go back to him, would you? You can draw all sorts of parallels with different business, but it all boils down to the same types of issues and results.
From four years of reading on the forums, there are way too many shoddy "mechanics" (of the human body) out there.


Den

BleepingBeauty wrote:I asked when I could expect to receive a copy of the report, and she told me in no uncertain terms that she will NOT be giving me a copy of the report because "the autopap trial was done as a favor to you and was not prescribed by a physician." I asked, "Isn't this report a part of my medical record?" She agreed that it was but reiterated that she would not be giving me a copy of it. Then she hung up on me.

Wow. Wow. Wow.

I would think you're legally entitled to the full report from the autopap download since it is a part of your medical record.

And...I may be wrong, but I *think* a doctor (or someone working under the doctor's authority) would have had to have ordered that autopap trial in the first place, or it wouldn't have happened. If an employee of the doctor's office took it upon himself/herself to perform an autotitrating trial on you, and chose pressure settings without an order from the doctor.... whew, what a mess for them.

BleepingBeauty wrote:I guess it's just more proof that my leaving this doctor's care was the right course of action.

Yes. Sure sounds like it.

waytootired wrote:How sad that the actual stories never make it on to this site... how about the truth? I guess that wouldn't be melodramatic enough for a good story. If patients were more honest with their providers they might be able to get somewhere with issues... the shame is that they are not always forthcoming and frankly many are out to just cause trouble. In the end, if patients don't work with their provider, the provider can't help the patient. It's as simple as that. Have fun with your drama on here.

Den and hose head,

Thanks for your responses to the above. "waytootired," an apparent drive-by poster, is entitled to believe whatever s/he wants to believe; doesn't make it true, though.

*shrug*

rested gal wrote:

BleepingBeauty wrote:I asked when I could expect to receive a copy of the report, and she told me in no uncertain terms that she will NOT be giving me a copy of the report because "the autopap trial was done as a favor to you and was not prescribed by a physician." I asked, "Isn't this report a part of my medical record?" She agreed that it was but reiterated that she would not be giving me a copy of it. Then she hung up on me.

Wow. Wow. Wow.

I would think you're legally entitled to the full report from the autopap download since it is a part of your medical record.

Hi, RG.

Yeah, "wow" is right, huh? Her reasons for refusal were bizarre, to say the least.

And...I may be wrong, but I *think* a doctor (or someone working under the doctor's authority) would have had to have ordered that autopap trial in the first place, or it wouldn't have happened. If an employee of the doctor's office took it upon himself/herself to perform an autotitrating trial on you, and chose pressure settings without an order from the doctor.... whew, what a mess for them.

I'm sure the Clinical Director had the authority to order the trial. She's the one who suggested it (and then a trial on Bi-PAP, if need be) during a telephone conversation we had a few weeks ago. She's also the person who wrote me the requested scrip last March for a data-capable machine. (I never got one, of course, but she obviously has the authority to write a scrip.) Your point, as always, is well-taken.

BleepingBeauty wrote:I guess it's just more proof that my leaving this doctor's care was the right course of action.

Yes. Sure sounds like it.

Yep. Color me a happy camper to be away from this outfit and finally on the road to effective therapy. Better late than never.

Let's examine the difference between a "medical procedure" and a "favor" using two hypothetical scenarios.

Let's say I'm at your house helping to prepare a fancy Easter dinner. All of a sudden I cut my finger while slicing and garnishing the Easter Spam. So you run and get the bandages. Then you help me cleanse the wound, remind me to compress the wound until the blood coagulates, and finally you help me dress the wound. However, you're not a doctor. So in a court of law, it may become debatable whether you actually administered a medical procedure or whether you performed a common-sense favor as a friend or good Samaritan.

However, if you were a doctor, and I came to your office to have that same sequence of treatment applied to my sliced finger, then you would very clearly be performing a medical procedure. You would be performing a medical procedure whether you charged for that service or also performed it gratis as a favor. The two are not mutually exclusive. In that second scenario, it would be defined as a medical procedure both legally and according to the standards of the medical profession---because of your highly-specialized professional training, and because of the very context of that doctor/patient relationship under which the procedures were performed.

So in light of that same doctor/patient context, let's apply a litmus test of logic to any AutoPAP trial (administered gratis or not):

Formal medical literature describes an AutoPAP trial administered by a doctor as:
A) a medical procedure yielding recorded medical results
B) a personal favor free of legal and professional obligations

Any legal regulatory agency or court of law would view an AutoPAP trial administered by a doctor as:
A) a medical procedure yielding recorded medical results
B) a personal favor free of legal and professional obligations

If we somehow knew the answer was "A" then we would also know that those recorded medical results were liable to the same professional codes of conduct and legal standards as any other recorded medical results. I think we all know the answer...


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The development in this thread is an unfortunate situation all around IMO. But contrary to the disgruntled drive-by claim, this message board is not comprised of roughly 40,000 members collectively participating in unfair personal drama.

Wow is right. I would be flipping mad if I were denied a part of my medical record like this. Wow. "We know stuff about you and your health but we aren't going to tell you." They should make that an advertising slogan.

It is also very disheartening to hear about the attitude toward the patient that some have. Even if BB were a bit of a pain (but I for one believe it came about the way she posted, which didn't sound "melodramatic" to me), for goodness sake, she is suffering from a chronic medical condition made worse by an apparent error by her medical "caregiver." As the phrase goes "HELLO????" Do the sick need to be especially concerned about the frail feelings of the doctor. Are patients not supposed to report symptoms and ask why they might be happening? If a doctor amputates the wrong leg, would it be melodramatic to point this out?

For the drive-by: I know that settings on my machine were not set correctly. My Dr. told the staff to change it (of course I was lucky enough to get in to see him that day). I helped the tech change it - he was having trouble. The reason I didn't flip out was that they were not defensive about - they fixed it. Several staff members were freaking out that I even mentioned buying software to know what was going on - the Doctor said he had no problem with me doing it and kinda encouraged it. I have seen other instances where staff is much more, um, "reticent" to be helpful than the doctors. I'm not sure why that is, it just sometimes is. Could this be a case of staff gone wild?

Well Bleep...guess we were right about these "people"! I just don't understand the animosity over there?? I really believe it's coming from the top and is "practiced" by certain employees in no uncertain terms. Have you seen the new ads on TV for EZSleep? I'm gonna prune the butterfly bush this week! Cross our fingers on the weather here!!

-SWS wrote:Let's examine the difference between a "medical procedure" and a "favor" using two hypothetical scenarios.

<snip>

If we somehow knew the answer was "A" then we would also know that those recorded medical results were liable to the same professional codes of conduct and legal standards as any other recorded medical results. I think we all know the answer...

I like how you think, -SWS.

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The development in this thread is an unfortunate situation all around IMO. But contrary to the disgruntled drive-by claim, this message board is not comprised of roughly 40,000 members collectively participating in unfair personal drama.

Good point. If we, as patients, were getting the kind of care we deserve, there'd be no reason to seek out a forum such as this one and ask a zillion questions about our treatment. Unfortunate, indeed.

raylo wrote:Wow is right. I would be flipping mad if I were denied a part of my medical record like this. Wow. "We know stuff about you and your health but we aren't going to tell you." They should make that an advertising slogan.

It is also very disheartening to hear about the attitude toward the patient that some have. Even if BB were a bit of a pain (but I for one believe it came about the way she posted, which didn't sound "melodramatic" to me), for goodness sake, she is suffering from a chronic medical condition made worse by an apparent error by her medical "caregiver." As the phrase goes "HELLO????" Do the sick need to be especially concerned about the frail feelings of the doctor. Are patients not supposed to report symptoms and ask why they might be happening? If a doctor amputates the wrong leg, would it be melodramatic to point this out?

Thanks, raylo. Truth be told, I can be a bitch when I feel I'm being wronged or treated poorly. (Men can be bitches, too, but we call that "assertive." <snort>) I relied on this doctor and his staff for my treatment needs, and they've dropped the ball too many times.

For the drive-by: I know that settings on my machine were not set correctly. My Dr. told the staff to change it (of course I was lucky enough to get in to see him that day). I helped the tech change it - he was having trouble. The reason I didn't flip out was that they were not defensive about - they fixed it. Several staff members were freaking out that I even mentioned buying software to know what was going on - the Doctor said he had no problem with me doing it and kinda encouraged it. I have seen other instances where staff is much more, um, "reticent" to be helpful than the doctors. I'm not sure why that is, it just sometimes is. Could this be a case of staff gone wild?

You make a very valid point about the attitude of the offending party. I've been met with resistance, rather than an acknowledgment that people are human and can make mistakes. I'm not so hardened that I couldn't/wouldn't forgive an error made if it was admitted to and then made right. But the defensive nature my ex-doctor's office is exhibiting simply reinforces my desire to stand up for myself and fight back. They're wrong, they know it, and throwing unfounded accusations at me just won't cut it. They keep digging themselves in deeper at every turn.

As to this being a case of "staff gone wild," I don't think that's the case. I think either (a) the tech just made a mistake in the settings, simple as that, or (b) he really didn't know what he was doing and didn't bother to ask someone else for help. I'm not "blaming" him for making an error, if that's what it was. If he was negligent, then yes, he should be reprimanded and/or trained better to prevent this from happening again. I'm really disappointed with the doctor and his Clinical Director for handling this whole matter the way they have. "Egos gone wild" seems more appropriate to me...

Oh, well. They're not my problem anymore.

sagesteve wrote:Well Bleep...guess we were right about these "people"! I just don't understand the animosity over there?? I really believe it's coming from the top and is "practiced" by certain employees in no uncertain terms. Have you seen the new ads on TV for EZSleep? I'm gonna prune the butterfly bush this week! Cross our fingers on the weather here!!

Howdy, neighbor!

It's unfortunate, but yes, we were right. I don't get the attitude, either. Maybe it stems from an inherent sense of insecurity? I'm not a shrink, so I won't take that any further.

Nope, I haven't seen any ads for EZSleep, since I TiVo most everything I watch on tv these days and fast-forward through all the ads. But I'll keep an eye out for them. When the ex-doctor wanted me to have another sleep study done last November (my first since becoming his patient), I asked him if it would be done at EZSleep. You should've seen his face! All scrunched up with disdain for that other facility. (I had no idea that he had his own sleep lab right in his office.)

Best of luck with the butterfly bush! I'm sure the weather will cooperate now. Seems like someone flips a switch around here, and the weather suddenly goes from one season to another in a flash. I had the heat on a few nights ago; now I'm sleeping with the windows open and just a sheet for a covering.

Maybe one of these days I'll get up there to meet you. Would love to see the butterfly bush in full regalia, inundated with butterflies.