Used Remstar Plus gives better sleep than new M Series APAP

dsm wrote:

builta wrote:

dsm wrote:Babs,

One of the best machines I owned was a 'tank' auto. It is beautifully built (very quality internal design & construction). It was never noisy (was quieter than other brands of the day).

Whilst I have always been impressed with the M Series algorithms, can't say I like the blower assembly due to that noise issue, nor the humidifier set up.
But all manufacturers have their ups & downs & no doubt the next model they release will bring Respironics back to the quality we are used to from them.

DSM

I agree--I really like my Backup old tank. it just kind of "feels right," its quiet and just runs. But, I actually prefer the humidifier on my M Series (Revision #3). It is easy to fill and clean no leaks no spills. I don't have to disconnect anything (like the hose) to remove or fill it. I can sleep all night on half a tank at a setting of 2.

Ok it takes a couple of minutes of use for M series heated humidifiers to "warm up" but it's never caused me any issues. I actually think that Respironics may have done this to reduce the humidity "backflow" into the XPAP. In some of your unit teardowns photos of the old tanks it kind of look looks some were "suffering" from humid air back flowing into the blower. I think that this can only happen when the blower unit is turned off. You know the old 20 minute humidifier "Pre-Warmup." What are your thoughts DSM?

I always thought the M series when new, included a change designed to stop the problem of people putting their tanks into the carry bag when there was still water in the H/H. That water would go straight into the internal airline & into the blower & as shown in one set of photos, could quickly rust the bearings in the motor.

I believe that problem was a big cause of machine returns to Respironics when the 'tank' style was popular. Most people coming here got that message very quickly, I recall there being a few stories over the years of people desperate to dry out their 'tanks' after similar accidents.

It is good to hear that the newer Ms have the improved chamber.

DSM

Hi DSM,

I'm not sure that I would want to put either one in the travel case with water still in the humidifier. The Rev #3 M Series Humidifier tank (They call it the "J" shaped tank top) would tend to spill water out the hose opening before it would travel into the tank to XPAP but the risk isn't worth it. I make my own distilled water for maybe $0.10 USD/gallon. So, each morning I always pitch the left over water in the humidifier tank (no matter which unit I am using) --cheap insurance and I think that it is more sanitary too.

I absolutely agree that the humidifier, on the older tanks, was clearly design prone to dump any left over water into the blower if you packed it away wet. The new M Series has a better design but it is just too risky.

I started out on the APAP mode(7-14) and watched my numbers for a month, but had problems with the machine going into runaway mode. I tried making the pressure difference smaller(8-12) and it helped but still went to max every once in awhile. This past week, I changed it to the straight CPAP mode(8) and flex 1. Like you Babette, I am sleeping better and the noise level is reduced by at least 50%. Will run my numbers today and see what they say now, after a week.

Well, I came here (cpaptalk) so fast after I started therapy (within a week) and learned very quickly that water is bad for electronics, so I always take out my humidifier and dry it thoroughly before travel.

In fact, I now have two chambers for the M series, so when I need to travel, I get up in the AM, take out the chamber I used the night before, leave it on the dresser, and pop in the dry spare chamber for travelling. Then, during the journey, I make sure to pop out the chamber and dry it with towels, or if I'm in a rush, just don't pack it with the machine. Shake it out, do a quick swab, and then stuff it somewhere else in the baggage. When I was dragging it up to BF's every weekend, I just left the spare chamber at his house, popped out the chamber I was using, and carried it without any chamber. Then when I left his house, I'd pop out the chamber, empty it, and leave it sitting on top of his hot water tank to dry out until next weekend. His hot water tank is in a closet that has been designated "mine" for storing odds and ends so I don't have to drag them up there every weekend - pillows, cpap stuff, sexy lingerie...

The Tank humidifer seems more fiddly to me in this regard. Since I don't plan to travel with it, I guess it's moot for me. I might get a second chamber, since they claim to have improved it, just for the heckuva. That's why I got a second chamber for the M Series - they claimed they'd improved it. After this weekend visit, I just dumped it, and put it on the hot water tank to dry out.

Now, as for heating the water - I have never preheated. I hate humid air, and only use it when I have to, to keep the nosebleeds at bay. In fact, the first weekend I used the Tank, sans instructions, I didn't turn the humidifier on at all, because I didn't realize you had to push the "humidifier" button as well as the "on" button. M Series just has one integrated button. Then I thought I hadn't set it up right, because it seemed pretty cold. So I got Wulfman to send me a manual, and discovered my error.

But it is kind of a neat feature, if you're a warm air lover, to be able to preheat the humidifier without turning the blower on.

BTW, for those new to tanks, BE SURE TO BUY REPLACEMENT COUPLERS. I just stumbled on these by accident the other day when loading up on my 6 months supplies at cpap.com. Now that I KNOW they degrade, I really noticed that mine was leaking air this weekend. Never noticed it the previous weekend.

This is the part: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... lings.html

I added them to my list, along with extra fine and grey filters. I thought I'd stocked up on those for the tank when I got it, but I can't find them in the mess. I DID buy a carrying case on cpapauction.com. I coulda SWORE I bought a rash of filters.... Why do I live this way? Why won't one of you come over here and just burn my house down so I can start over fresh?

LOL,
B.

Hi Babette,

I also have spare tanks for both my M Series and the "Older Tank Style" XPAPs. I swap between tanks every night and let one dry out well while I use the other.

With regards to the "New Design" of the tanks:

The one for the Older Tank style Respironics XPAP has been redesigned. The new one doesn't have the internal baffle any more and the part that connects to the blower has also changed. The original design had a molded hard part that you pressed into a little rubber connector (with a metal washer inside of it). That rubber connection tended to stay stuck to the Blower. For the new design, they removed that hard connection and rubber part and replaced it with a removable connector and flapper valve. This device is designed, so that when you remove the humidifier tanks from the XPAP, to stay connected to the humidifier tank and not the blower. This makes it easier to connect a regular 6' CPAP hose directly to the blower because there is no rubber piece left on the blower. Now remember that I said that there is a flapper valve? That little thing brings me to the other change to the design. That humidifier tank now has a hole in it that acts sort of/kind'a like the Anti-Asphyxia valve in the masks (and a little snap on cover to protect the opening). This flapper closes off the connection to the blower unit naturally (and really closes it off tight if you exhale into the "hooked up mask" with the unit turned off and lets the air go out of the new the hole in the humidifier's tank.) When you turn on the blower the little flapper raises to close off the hole in the humidifier's tank and then the humidifier acts just like the old style humidifier tank. Note that this little flapper can make it somewhat more difficult for the "Auto On" function of the Blower to work as alot of air enters through this new humidifier hole (until the unit turns on). I think that the main purpose of this flapper is to help keep water out of the blower but who knows. All I know is that you get two of them (the new connectors with flapper valve) with a replacement tank and if you don't install this connector as directed the flapper will not close the new "Vent" in the Humidifier tank and it will leak. No problems if you follow the printed directions and you'll know if you didn't anyway! The replacement tanks work just fine with the older bases but you have to remove that old style little rubber connector from the blower--it is not needed for the new design and interferes with connecting up the new style tank. You can see these things in the photos on the CPAP.com site.

CPAP.com link: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... ifier.html

For the M-Series they have changed designs for the tank lid and for the seal between the upper and lower halfs. The new seal between the upper and lower half has a plastic frame that is black where the older style was blue. I've never personally held in my hands one of those blue frame tank bottom halfs. For the upper half of the tank assembly, they changed the design of the connections and how the top connects to the hose outlet and blower connection. The different upper half designs (both new and old) are not inter-changable. They are M Series Heated Humidifier model specific. So, a rev #2 humidifier (older style) needs a tank upper half that has two "side by side" connections that and it has a a sort of square "figure eight" shaped rubbery seal. The new design (called a Rev#3) has a top that looks sort of like a "mirror imaged" letter J. The rubber connections are separate and are round. CPAP.com sells a universal replacement tank (with both types of tops) and you can see the difference in top designs in their photos.

Link here: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/Respir ... amber.html

The big thing is that the "Top Halfs" of the M Series Humidifier tanks are not inter-changable. So, if you want a spare, you need to know what one you need or buy a universal kit.

Edited addition: You can tell it you have a "Rev #3" style M Series Integrated Heated Humidifier because if you look at the Humidity dial (the one that has a 0 to 5 scale) and look at the "5" , the Rev#3 units have a line printed under the "5". The units without the underscore under the "5" use the Rev #2 tops.

When I bought my spare chamber for the M Series, I ordered the "old style" top, since that's what fits my machine. But they shipped both tops, with a note inside that says they ship all of them this way now.

I just tossed the new top, after offering it here, and no takers.

The new design is easier to open, the latch is smoother than the old blue latch, but I don't notice any other difference, other than color. My old blue chamber never leaked on me, except once when I was sleepy late at night and fumbled putting it back together. Why it was apart, I can't recall. I rarely clean my chambers. I use 3/4 of a chamber of water most nights, and just refill. Every now and then I feel the urge to clean, and then I take it apart.

I have the older style chamber for the Tank. I might buy a new style chamber. I like the idea of the flapper protecting it from water sloshing into the blower.

Cheers,
B.