The Ambien effect-in graphs

Interesting graphs to show how Ambien affects me. With Ambien it takes nearly an hour to get to sleep:



Without Ambien I struggled for well over an hour with almost getting there and then becoming fully awake again. I woke up 5 or 6 times last night throwing off the covers as the hot flashes came. Always aware of the mask and its various leaks, I had a bad night and feel lousy this morning.


I prefer not to take drugs to help me sleep, but I sleep so much better with Ambien.

-SWS, SAG,
From looking at these charts, can you see any negative effects of the Ambien? And, no, I never did have another PSG done without the drugs. ( I knew that you were going to ask, SAG)

Bev

Very nice leak line Bev! Does the Ambien make you feel better during the day?

Georgio

The thing with Ambien, though is that it will continue to impact your sleep for a few nights after you stop using it. It's almost like it creates a need for itself. You take it to get to sleep and then you HAVE to have it to get to sleep because of its continued effects. I'm not sure how long the effect lasts but it would definately cause you to have a hard time the first night afterward.

The graphs for this machine don't give a lot of detail on leaks. The line always looks more or less straight no matter what the numbers show. But I am a light sleeper so every little leak either keeps me awake or wakes me up. So a good leak line doesn't mean a good night's sleep. It just means that I was able to adjust it enough to keep it from being a larger leak!

You are right about the Ambien. I took it for years and every time I tried to give it up I couldn't sleep for three nights. Recently I have been off of it since January. I took it the other night because I was going to try a new mask, Swift LT. As you can see by that little blip at the beginning, it didn't work out for me. One side sealed and the other wouldn't no matter what I did.

Bev

Well, 4 or 5 quick points:

I think these graphs show how aggressive the ASV algorithms can be when they see a lot of Wake/Stage 1 transition, as seen in that IPAP attack.

We'll have to work in discussion about those previously noted terrifically long apneas (obstructives in the original diagnostic, centrals in the titration) at some point.

And somebody will undoubtedly resurrect his position re: the use of fixed pressure (14 cmH2O before, and apparently 13 cmH2O now).

As well as the current debate about CompSAS (does it really exist?)

SAG

Hi Bev: I started out with plain Ambien, it worked for a while, but my Dr. switched me over to the Ambien CR. Its not supposed to be habit forming and not much for side affects. You probably knew all that already. I would rather get a good nights sleep with the Ambien, than to lay awake 1/2 the night. Thanks, Larry...

Bev, if it were me I would monitor nightly SpO2 while performing these steps:

1) REPLICATE: Make sure a hard correlation exists between using Ambien and achieving those smoother respiratory patterns
(Are those results REALLY attributable to Ambien, or are we just looking at a one-night data or physiologic anomaly?)

2) SUBJECTIVELY ASSESS: Do you feel significantly more refreshed, day in and day out, while using Ambien in conjuction with your BiPAP autoSV?
(If not, then there may arguably be no significant gain by resuming Ambien)

3) CONSULT: Make sure your doctor is aware of significant treatment changes, even if resuming past medications.
(Do this for all the obvious common-sense reasons in addition to another: conveying even successful treatment changes to your doctor can conceivably help your doctor treat other similar cases).

A side note about Ambien: The newer extended-release Ambien CR is not yet available as a lower-cost generic prescription. Still, that extended-release Ambien CR may be the best choice for people with sleep maintenance issues that extend beyond the three or four hour mark. However the original Ambien (the non-extended-release version) is now available as a lower-cost generic prescription (ref Zolpidem).

Let us know what you discover, Bev.

"IPAP attack". That's a good one. That's why I have a headache.

I've been experimenting with the Ambien. I've noticed that on nights I use it, I usually get pretty even lines for a couple of hours after I get to sleep. After that it goes haywire. However, every night is a little different.

I will say that overall I feel better than I did at the end of last year. I'm functioning better, head is clearer. I have had two headaches this year. I used to have headaches almost every day. I attribute that to not having the long apneas that I used to have. This machine rarely lets me have an apnea.

I wish I knew what wakes me up so many times during the night.

Bev

BeanMeScot wrote:The thing with Ambien, though is that it will continue to impact your sleep for a few nights after you stop using it. It's almost like it creates a need for itself. You take it to get to sleep and then you HAVE to have it to get to sleep because of its continued effects. I'm not sure how long the effect lasts but it would definately cause you to have a hard time the first night afterward.

That's not been my experience and I've been using it for jet lag regularly for many years -- I travel often for work.

OutaSync wrote:I've been experimenting with the Ambien. I've noticed that on nights I use it, I usually get pretty even lines for a couple of hours after I get to sleep.

If that's regular Ambien, then you might be experiencing diminishing returns as serum half-life approaches.

Assuming no adverse affects from Ambien, you could always try extended-release Ambien CR to see if your improved respiratory patterns are sustained throughout most of the night. Might want to try that one on a Friday or Saturday night, should you experience the Ambien "zombie effect" the next day that some people seem to really suffer.

I've never noticed any "zombie effect" from Ambien. I always felt more rested from Ambien until I started CPAP. That's when I started having disturbed sleep even with the Ambien.

Might try the extended-release Ambien CR then.

OutaSync wrote:I wish I knew what wakes me up so many times during the night.

Bev,

Don't know if it would help in the analysis, but I've been playing hot-flash games myself of late (I know the cause: one year ago Tuesday was my cancer surgery, and although I had been through menopause, the total hysterectomy brought about an amazing collection of menopause symptoms that I had never had before.)

Any way, the last two nights, I've been doing the wake every hour or so, toss the covers off, pull the covers on, etc.

Since we are on the same machine, I could see about hauling my last two night's files over and we could potentially run a comparison to see if anything leaps out at us.

Not trying to hijack your thread, or anything... just the similarity of symptoms, etc.

Kiralynx,

I would love to see how your charts compare to mine.

Bev

OutaSync wrote:Kiralynx,

I would love to see how your charts compare to mine.

Bev,

OK, I've got the PDFs moved over to the on-line machine. AND a Photobucket account, but it apparently doesn't take PDFs, and I'm too sleepy to convert to JPG tonight.