nocturia with sleep apnea

Can anyone tell me if nocturia improves with using the cpap machine? I still have to get up 3 to 4 times a night to use the bathroom. It's frustrating to wake up, take off the mask, put it back on , try and fall asleep again, only to have to go again in 2 to 3 hours.

Many of us have inproved in that department. I used to have to get up to go 2 or 3 times a night. Now, it's more like once a month. BIG benefit.

Bev

sleepyterri wrote:Can anyone tell me if nocturia improves with using the cpap machine? I still have to get up 3 to 4 times a night to use the bathroom. It's frustrating to wake up, take off the mask, put it back on , try and fall asleep again, only to have to go again in 2 to 3 hours.

Certainly it should improve IF your therapy is effective. If it doesn't I tend to think you are still experiencing O2 desats when sleeping.

If I understand it correctly, when your O2 drops, your heart (under duress) creates an enzyme which acts much like a diuretic and that is what you are experiencing.

I can tell you that was the first concrete benefit I noticed with using my CPAP. I almost NEVER get up to go to the bathroom at night. And I thought it was my AGE. HA

Karen

i have nocturia too, since i can remember. i still have to get up every 1 1/2 - 2 hrs. to go to the bathroom. i'm miserable and don't feel any benefit from my c-pap. in fact, i think because i am so uncomfortable with this contraption on my face, i wake up more often. good luck. i hope you get help.

Terri.....

You might want to purchase a blood-pressure checker....one of those battery powered, digital readout jobs....and check your BP when you get up at night.

Once you get your sleep apnea under control.....and your panic hormones subside.....I'm betting that your BP will go down......and your nocturia will go away.

I found that high BP caused my nocturia......and once I got my O2 levels up where they were supposed to be....and I wasn't suffocating myself with sleep apnea....I no longer had to get up at night to pee.

With all due respect to the opinion of another poster in this thread......who associates certain enzymes with nocturia.....I don't buy it.

For me, it's a simple problem in hydraulics......high blood pressure into the kidneys....dumps high pressure urine into the bladder......and high pressure urine pushing against the release valve....causes the need to urinate.

How long have you been on CPAP? I know for me, before CPAP it was 2 times a night most of the time, between 2 and 2:30 am and again at 4 - 4:30 am....

After CPAP, it took about a week, and for about 2 nights a week, I didn't have to get up. It steadily improved. I've been on 2.5 months now, and I have to get up about once a week or so, and that's only if I've had too much to drink after about 9:00 pm.

Gerald wrote:I found that high BP caused my nocturia......and once I got my O2 levels up where they were supposed to be....and I wasn't suffocating myself with sleep apnea....I no longer had to get up at night to pee.

With all due respect to the opinion of another poster in this thread......who associates certain enzymes with nocturia.....I don't buy it.

For me, it's a simple problem in hydraulics......high blood pressure into the kidneys....dumps high pressure urine into the bladder......and high pressure urine pushing against the release valve....causes the need to urinate.

It was probably the excess fluid in your system as a result of CPAP that caused the higher BP. And the a[\pmea does cause your body to dump excessive amounts of sodium into your system which your body has to dump, hence the nocturia. Whether it is an enzyme causing the diuretic effect or something else, it is excess sodium the kidneys have to flush out. I mean, what do you think causes the high blood pressure at night?

I think it would depend on why you have it - many cpap users probably had it because of their apnea. I have it because my body retains water during the day(go maybe once during the day) and when I am flat at night, the water goes to my kidneys - I would go numerouse times during the night. I saw a urologist years ago and he explained it really well - sorry I can't. From what I read if you are just going a little each time you go at night, it is probably the apnea, if you go a lot there may be something else going on. Unfortunately I am now having trouble becuase I sleep so well with the cpap, I am now retaining water all day, I am working with my doc to do something about it...seems there is always something.

Deb.....

For me, the high BP at night was caused by the "panic hormones" produced by my body....in the attempt to wake me before I suffocated (sleep apnea).

At the same time, both of my parents were about to die.....and every time a phone rang, I'd get a huge surge of panic hormones.

Once both parents had passed......and I had my apnea under contol.....my BP went down....and no more trips to the bathroom during the night.

My BP regulation system was simply overworked as it tried to regulate my pressure....while at the same time my panic hormones were telling it to raise my pressure.

I just can't go for the "sodium idea".......There may be some validity to it, but I just don't think it's the primary cause of high BP.

Most doctors aren't mechanics....and don't have a feel for hydraulics or thermodynamics. They read a lot of stuff in books....but they just don't have a "mechanic's feel" for the way things work.

if you ask one what causes high BP, you don't get a straight answer. if you ask them what "stress" is....you don't get a straight answer.

I think all of us on this forum are fighting the root cause of high BP and stress.......and I think both are caused by runaway panic hormone production. For us, this runaway production is caused by "almost sufrocation"....many times a night. And once most of us get the "almost suffocation" under control, we start back in the direction of better health.

ronda wrote:I think it would depend on why you have it - many cpap users probably had it because of their apnea. I have it because my body retains water during the day(go maybe once during the day) and when I am flat at night, the water goes to my kidneys - I would go numerouse times during the night. I saw a urologist years ago and he explained it really well - sorry I can't. From what I read if you are just going a little each time you go at night, it is probably the apnea, if you go a lot there may be something else going on. Unfortunately I am now having trouble becuase I sleep so well with the cpap, I am now retaining water all day, I am working with my doc to do something about it...seems there is always something.

My PCP gave that explanation to me several years ago when I asked him why I was now going so much at night....but as it turns out, it was my apnea. I was not going a little each time at night, I was at 480ml each time (I know this from a hospital stay where i/o was recorded). Since I have been on CPAP, the nocturia has all but vanished.

Yes - it did for me anyway. Pre-CPAP - 4-5 times per night (they explained that because my brain was awakening to help control the apnea (or arousals), if I felt like I needed to go, even a little bit, I would need to go).

Now, one a week or so. But this is partially my fault - I drink liquids close to bedtime.

Also - do you have diabetes, or is your sugars high? Many people can have frequent urination with high blood sugars - you may want to have this checked out.

My Apnea was mild in non-REM and only a big issue in REM. I used to go once a night. Now I don't go at all. It did take a month or so for that to stop. It's gross how concentrated it looks in the morning.

by sleepyterri on Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:17 pm

Can anyone tell me if nocturia improves with using the cpap machine? I still have to get up 3 to 4 times a night to use the bathroom. It's frustrating to wake up, take off the mask, put it back on , try and fall asleep again, only to have to go again in 2 to 3 hours.

Hi Sleepterri . . . and others who wear themselves out getting up to pee multiple times, thus disrupting sleep and becoming fully awake again grrrr! I just found the solution for myself until my treatment hopefully improves this need! It may work for you too.

Several years ago I got a "portapotty" when I broke my ankle. I remembered it, dug it out, and simply removed the "bucket with lid" from it. I placed my covered bucket on a square little wooden step-stool (Bath & Beyond has them), placed the bucket on the stool right by my bed. Now, when I feel the need . . . I just switch on my nightlight, slide out of bed, sit on / or squat over the bucket which is only a step away, take care of things WITHOUT HAVING TO UNHOOK MY MASK OR TURN OFF THE AIR, put the lid on the bucket . . and sleepily climb back in bed to resume my sleep! In the morning I empty & clean the bucket. My private "sleep spa" is becoming increasingly inviting and treasured as it is changing my life for the better!

This has made a BIG difference in allowing me to sleep well. Two other things I did that made a BIG difference are . . . putting in cheap foam EARPLUGS . . . and COVERING MY EYES with a dark cloth which my CL2 mask holds in place. Muffling all sounds and sleeping in total dark make it so easy to sleep.

Of course, finding the RIGHT SETTINGS (humidity set at 2 for me; and CFlex set at 3) . . . and the RIGHT MASK is essential for both comfort & CPAP success! I am currently using ComfortLite2 Nasal Pillow mask (with my mouth taped with J&J Waterproof tape), but I don't like the forehead & head gear which makes my head sore even with adjustments and padding. I am working on replacing it with the AEIOMed Headrest with Rested Gals deconstruction, removing the headgear and replacing it with stretchy "Tights" straps.

I continue to be SO GRATEFUL to this forum for all the ideas, encouragement, and genuine desire to be of help. My first week on CPAP resulted in being alert and raring to go from the moment I got up in the morning. I can't remember EVER feeling this awake & energetic during the day. My continuing success is absolutely the result of YOUR HELP! I couldn't have had the knowledge, positive attitude, motivation, and confidence in CPAP without YOU!!! Thank you ALL! I feel you are becoming dear friends.

Joy