Apneas increase during "snooze" time?

I thought I had a really good night last night. I wasn't aware of any leaks. Checking my info this morning, I indeed had a really nice, mostly flat leak line. I wish I had uploaded a report before I left the house this morning, but I didn't - can post it tonight though if anyone wants to look at it.

However, in spite of a great leak rate, I had 17 apnea events last night! I'm sure it's probably the settings on my new VPAP that need to be adjusted. What I found interesting however is that 10 of the apneas occurred within a one hour window between 4:30 and 5:30 am. I set my alarm clock for 4:30 because I'm a "snoozer". I hit the snooze button numerous times before getting up and I like to be up by 5:30 - 5:45. Sometimes I hit the snooze button in my sleep and I have even turned the alarm off in my sleep (before xPAP). I know I woke several times when the alarm went off, but I went right back to sleep - then had apneas?

Does anyone know why apneas would be more likely to occur during this time?

I haven't looked at other night's data to see if the same has happened. I will look tonight. I find this interesting - maybe there is a simple explanation though.

Bluebonnet_Gal wrote:I set my alarm clock for 4:30 because I'm a "snoozer". I hit the snooze button numerous times before getting up and I like to be up by 5:30 - 5:45. Sometimes I hit the snooze button in my sleep and I have even turned the alarm off in my sleep (before xPAP). I know I woke several times when the alarm went off, but I went right back to sleep - then had apneas?

Does anyone know why apneas would be more likely to occur during this time?

I haven't looked at other night's data to see if the same has happened. I will look tonight. I find this interesting - maybe there is a simple explanation though.

I don't have an explanation, but I will say this... now that you're on CPAP and not as likely to turn your alarm off in your sleep... now that you are probably getting much more restful, refreshing sleep, I'd stop that habit of setting an early "snooze" time.

Here's why: We have several periods of REM (Rapid Eye Movement -- dreaming) sleep during the night. First REM usually happens about 90 minutes after we fall asleep, and about every hour and a half thereafter. Each REM cycle is usually longer than the preceding one. Our longest REM is usually before we are going to wake up in the morning.

If you deliberately set a "snooze time" for an hour or so before you really need to get up for the day, you're probably interrupting your last, longest REM. Not good to do that. I'd stop that "snoozin' " and continue really "sleepin' " during that last hour of good REM!

You are more likely to be in rem sleep or stage 4 at that time so you would be more relaxed and more prone to your airway collapsing, in my opinion.

The first year or so, that used to drive be nuts (mostly on the weekends)......I'd have almost a perfect night.....get up in the morning to go to the bathroom and then go back to sleep for a couple of more hours.......and have a fairly higher number of events in that short amount of time that it kind of wrecked my overall numbers. I was always torn between taking my card out of my machine for that period of time (and getting better AHI numbers) or leaving it in to SEE what was going to happen, out of curiosity. Well, after awhile, it wasn't happening anymore, so that ended my frustration.

I also think it has something to do with sleep stages, dreaming, maybe being more relaxed during that period of time.

Den

rested gal wrote: I don't have an explanation, but I will say this... now that you're on CPAP and not as likely to turn your alarm off in your sleep... now that you are probably getting much more restful, refreshing sleep, I'd stop that habit of setting an early "snooze" time.

This is a good suggestion and I know it's something I need to do. I'm a bit afraid I will oversleep. However it IS a "crutch" I need to get rid of!

Wulfman wrote: I was always torn between taking my card out of my machine for that period of time (and getting better AHI numbers) or leaving it in to SEE what was going to happen, out of curiosity. Well, after awhile, it wasn't happening anymore, so that ended my frustration.

I also think it has something to do with sleep stages, dreaming, maybe being more relaxed during that period of time.

Den

I would never recommend taking your card out to eliminate those periods on the reports, but it brings to mind a question. My Doc and DME never looked at daily data - only the summaries. How in the world would they be aware of things like this going on if they don't look at the daily data? Someone may be getting good therapy most of the night, but numbers are "skewed" due to these short periods of time. We really ARE being handed a disservice by our docs, DMEs and RTs! It's very frustrating! Thank God for this forum!

I'm also a snooze fan.

Is it possible that these were false readings caused because you were awake momentarily? Perhaps you hold your breath slightly as you stretch to reach for the snooze button? And afterwards you probably don't fall into as deep a sleep as before. Tho it always seemed to me that my deepest sleep of the night was after I hit snooze.

I don't use an auto but I think I recall reading somewhere that you got false readings at the very beginning of the night before you fell asleep. If that's true then I'd think the same thing could happen in the AM since you're falling asleep again after being woken up by the alarm.

MidnightOwl

The machines are made for automomous breathing so if you are awake or snoozing it will score more "events" It's made to recognise sleeping patterns. Bill Bolton has a much better way of explaining this.

Bluebonnet_Gal wrote:Sometimes I hit the snooze button in my sleep and I have even turned the alarm off in my sleep (before xPAP). I know I woke several times when the alarm went off, but I went right back to sleep - then had apneas?

The event scoring on all data capable machines is entirely predicated on autonomous sleep breathing behaviour and simply does not work if you are not asleep.

In the circumstance you are describing, you are not doing autonomous sleep breathing (even if you think you are) and the scoring for that period is basically meaningless.

Cheers,

Bill

billbolton wrote: The event scoring on all data capable machines is entirely predicated on autonomous sleep breathing behaviour and simply does not work if you are not asleep.

In the circumstance you are describing, you are not doing autonomous sleep breathing (even if you think you are) and the scoring for that period is basically meaningless.

Cheers,

Bill

Point taken. I'm no longer "snoozing". I did look back at previous reports and that didn't happen most nights (not sure it happened ANY other nights). I changed my alarm last night to go off at 5:15 this morning and I got up shortly after. After making sure I've gotten used to it, I will change it to 5:30 and hopefully get up the first time it goes off.

Thanks guys!

Bluebonnet_Gal wrote:daily data? Someone may be getting good therapy most of the night, but numbers are "skewed" due to these short periods of time. We really ARE being handed a disservice by our docs, DMEs and RTs! It's very frustrating! Thank God for this forum!

Don't lump them all in together...my doc looked at each day on the report when I went in, not just the summaries...he even explained them to me (even though I was too 'new' to understand what he was telling me... ) He even commented on the time I was going to bed each night..

Debjax wrote:
Don't lump them all in together...my doc looked at each day on the report when I went in, not just the summaries...he even explained them to me (even though I was too 'new' to understand what he was telling me... ) He even commented on the time I was going to bed each night..

I'm in love with your Doc. Doesn't he want to relocate his practice to Texas? Will you send his contact info? Today should be a great day to convince him of the beauty of Central Texas (especially in the winter)!