data call

jnk wrote:Kiralynx, I think you put it all very well, myself. Glad you didn't mind my chiming in. I wasn't sure you had seen jskinner's post, and I wanted to be sure that part of your point wasn't lost.

Nah, I never mind someone else chiming in on a discussion -- sometimes I even refrain from hitting them if they disagree with me!

I understand the FDA's interest in it all. I even understand the companies' wanting to protect the validity of reports generated by the software for their machines. But if a company could find a way to address those concerns but still make a usb port link and user software that was cheap and effective and easy to use, I think that company would gain a tremendous edge in the market. The problem is that there are too many jobs to be protected, so the end user loses. And that's a shame, because it is a matter of life and death for the end user, or if not, at least a matter of quality of life in a very real way.

Amen to that!

jskinner, now that you know what Kiralynx and I want, can you please call all the manufacturers and let them know to please get on it! Or can you at least sneak us some kind of an underground program and interface system that will do all of that for us?

Would that he could... but I bet it's a "black box" issue. If he doesn't have the code to unlock the cards, he may not be able to do anything.

jskinner wrote:I wish they would talk to end users... every attempt i have made they refuse to talk and say I must go to my DME...

You might take a look at my comments about the power of the populace here:

viewtopic/t37053/CPAPer-Power.html

Problem is that the format of data on the smart card is not published.

IANAP (I am not a programmer), but how does the utility which extracts data, reformats the card, and allows data to be put back on the card work? Can something like this be applied to the situation?

Kiralynx wrote:IANAP (I am not a programmer), but how does the utility which extracts data, reformats the card, and allows data to be put back on the card work? Can something like this be applied to the situation?

The utility uses the Microsoft Smartcard APIs to read and write the blob of data. The problem is that we don't know the format of the data in that blob. To make the situation even more complicated that blob of data very likely has a different format for different models of PAP.

There was an effort by one of the memebers to try and decode that blob a long time ago when I first created EPA but it never accomplished.

jskinner wrote:The utility uses the Microsoft Smartcard APIs to read and write the blob of data. The problem is that we don't know the format of the data in that blob. To make the situation even more complicated that blob of data very likely has a different format for different models of PAP.

I wonder why I'm not surprised. Either that it's a (so far) undecipherable blob of data, or that there is a possibility of a different format for each machine.

There was an effort by one of the memebers to try and decode that blob a long time ago when I first created EPA but it never accomplished.

Right, the dread Not Done Yeti strikes again.... thanks, James. Guess I'll have to keep dreaming about a Universal Software.

Kiralynx wrote:I wonder why I'm not surprised. Either that it's a (so far) undecipherable blob of data, or that there is a possibility of a different format for each machine.

I guess I don't understand why this is surprising. This is no different than any other device that you would buy. Most manufactures don't publish the internal workings of there machines.

jskinner wrote:I guess I don't understand why this is surprising. This is no different than any other device that you would buy. Most manufactures don't publish the internal workings of there machines.

Actually, if you go looking, you can find the internal workings of just about anything, up to, and including how to fix an automated kitty litter box.

My comment dates back to earlier days of home PCs. I have a list of something like 200 different disk formats that were used on early home computers. The list comes from a program which I used on my Osborne 1 to convert data from other formats to Osborne format, and vice versa.

Now there essentially exists Mac and PC... and they are no longer as incompatible as they once were.

What causes me to sigh is the unnecessary complication (and hence, added expense) of possibly having a different format for each of the different machines made. It's the same as the early home computer formats. Not needed, and making it that much more difficult to share data. I guess EncorePro must have the ability to decode them all, if they even exist.

I wonder if an argument could be made for "the data on these cards is my medical records, and therefore, I have a right to it, regardless of format"? Most likely the response would be, "And you have access, using our proprietary software."

Kiralynx wrote: ... I wonder if an argument could be made for "the data on these cards is my medical records, and therefore, I have a right to it, regardless of format"? ...

Interesting argument to use in favor of insisting on and receiving a fully data capable CPAP!!!

Slinky wrote:

Kiralynx wrote: ... I wonder if an argument could be made for "the data on these cards is my medical records, and therefore, I have a right to it, regardless of format"? ...

Interesting argument to use in favor of insisting on and receiving a fully data capable CPAP!!!

<evil grin> Isn't it? I know when the DME told me the RT would review my studies and recommend a machine, I requested that she call me before making any recommendations. She did. First thing on my list was fully data capable.

Kiralynx wrote:What causes me to sigh is the unnecessary complication (and hence, added expense) of possibly having a different format for each of the different machines made.

The different models of machines produce different types of data so its a necessity.

These cards could not use a standard format because there is no current standard defined for this type of data... maybe someday...

jskinner wrote:The different models of machines produce different types of data so its a necessity.

Maybe... as I said, I am not a programmer, so perhaps i do not understand how these things work. (I know just enough to get myself in trouble. A friend who did software support would often hand me a copy of a new program and send me home with instructions to install it, and talk to him while I was installing it -- because he was so accustomed to solving problems that he would do so without realizing he had. Whereas I could talk to him intelligently about issues that his customers might encounter in installing and using the software.)

What different types of data do you see the different (data capable) machines as producing? What differences would you see, say, between the data produced by a Bipap Auto SV, and a Bipap with Biflex and an Auto with A-flex or a straight CPAP?

My perception is that it could be akin to filling out a standard address block. Mr./Mrs/ Ms, First Name, Middle Name, Surname, Jr. Sr. III, Address1 Address2, City, State or Province, Zip or Postal Code, Country... and the machines which have more categories would fill everything out, while the machines which have fewer would just leave those blank.

These cards could not use a standard format because there is no current standard defined for this type of data... maybe someday...

Well, there's the rub... until we eliminate the 200+ ways to format a disk, there won't be any form of data compatibility.