Source: http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/11/i ... an-the-us/Is China now more capitalist than the US?
posted at 8:27 am on December 11, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
In response to the financial crisis of 2008, the United States has responded by nationalizing industries and electing a president who promised to raise taxes on entrepreneurial efforts. China, the nominally Communist nation, has responded by cutting business taxes to stimulate growth. Remind me which nation supposedly supports capitalism and free enterprise (via Q&O):
CHINA may soon cut business tax as part of its efforts to prop up the slowing economy amid the global financial crisis, state media reported on Tuesday.
The government is ‘very likely’ to soon cut the business tax for enterprises by one percentage point, the China Daily said, citing an unnamed source close to policymakers.
China’s current business tax varies from three to 20 per cent, boosting government revenue by 600 billion yuan (S$131 billion) last year, according to the paper.
The news follows other state press reports last week that Beijing was planning to cut business tax for commercial banks - possibly to three percent from the current five percent, to help improve their capital adequacy.
While China improves its business climate by lowering the burden of state confiscation, the US plans to increase it, and in some cases by a significant amount. Meanwhile, the House last night voted 237-170 to sink $15 billion into the American auto industry, with government officially owning part of three private auto makers in order to dictate to management how to run their businesses. Management welcomed the move, and in fact wanted Congress to buy an even bigger stake in these companies.
Which nation is capitalist? And which is Socialist? And which party is more of one than the other? It’s hard to tell, since 32 Republicans voted for partial nationalization, and 20 Democrats voted against it. Perhaps Senate Republicans can make the distinction a little more clear with a filibuster to block this new direction in American economics.
When one looks to Beijing for rational tax policies … well, that’s just a sad day for Americans, even if it does portend a brighter future for China.
OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
Is China now more capitalist than the US?
Rooster
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related
Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
I'm a little less pessimistic. I believe America is made up of fundamentally good people. I believe that there are values worth fighting for and that those values are intrinsic to all Americans. Whether people are guided by those values is up to them . Having that choice is the beauty and the agony of America. I do see your point, though.rooster wrote:Scott,
"Well if half the kids don't have a biological father living in the house, 30% never finish high school and who knows how many are drunk or drugged regularly, how could we expect to build a good economy?"
We have met the enemy and he is us.
"America is great because America is good." Are we still good?
Scott
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Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
You know, I've never been a big fan of unions. BUT, I'm sick of the idiots who blame the unions and their greed for the auto industry's problems. UAW workers make up 10% - yeah, TEN PERCENT of GM's budget. Wanna take a guess how much of GM's budget goes to the top 10% of management? The upper echolons? High UAW wages increased the wages of other hourly workers in the area who had to compete w/the auto workers. Salaried auto workers benefited from UAW wages and benefits as salary, of course, had to make more than the hourly worker. The obscene salaries, benefits, perks and stock options from the auto and financial industries spilled over into other businesses and corporations.
Break the back of the unions, reduce their size and effectiveness and you get today's economy. Who can afford to buy a new car, if they can get the financing, on $10 to $14 an hour if they have other obligations like rent or a house payment, a kid or two to put thru school, feed and clothe, doctor bills, etc. The UAW and blue collar workers got not sympathy from those in white collar jobs - now turn about is fair play. Except no sympathy from the blue collar workers, stew in your own juices!
The new media at one time delighted in comparing the US auto worker's wages to those of other countries. Yeah, well, they FINALLY wised up and compared the CEO compensation of American companies w/those of other countires AND the RATIO between hourly and CEOs in the US and other countries. Guess which upper echelons and CEOs came out as obscenely greedy fat cats?
Break the back of the unions, reduce their size and effectiveness and you get today's economy. Who can afford to buy a new car, if they can get the financing, on $10 to $14 an hour if they have other obligations like rent or a house payment, a kid or two to put thru school, feed and clothe, doctor bills, etc. The UAW and blue collar workers got not sympathy from those in white collar jobs - now turn about is fair play. Except no sympathy from the blue collar workers, stew in your own juices!
The new media at one time delighted in comparing the US auto worker's wages to those of other countries. Yeah, well, they FINALLY wised up and compared the CEO compensation of American companies w/those of other countires AND the RATIO between hourly and CEOs in the US and other countries. Guess which upper echelons and CEOs came out as obscenely greedy fat cats?
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Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
The current bill that was to be voted on today is said to be a loan so they can "plan" the restructuring. The strings are that if the plan isn't viable they will go into Ch11 then. If the reason to give them money right now is that people won't buy a car from them if they filled Ch11, what makes them think people will buy a car from them while planning and will likely still go into ch11? People buy cars for a longer run than 4 months.
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It's going to be okay in the end; if it's not okay, it's not the end.
Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
Not if it was a Oldsmobile diesel! Who me? Still bitter after all these years? Maybe.OldLincoln wrote: People buy cars for a longer run than 4 months.
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Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
I live in a city of over 80,000, in Ford Country. We have no Ford dealer at all now. Why, because of poor business practices, not honoring their warranty properly, and treating their customers like crap.
Where am I coming from, I was a Ford dealer mechanic, at from 1964-1978, in this same city, when the dealership was ran by other people. The owner was a man whose looks were a little rough, not what you would call friendly looking, as far as public appeal. He had billboards put up all over the county with his picture full sized on them, asking "Would you Buy A New Car from this Man". People would, and did, because they knew that if you had a problem with the product, He, would see that you as his customer would see that it was made right. I have seen him fire the same person 3 times a week in rage, but it didn't matter because you knew he was fair.
I was just a grunt in Viet Nam 1966, when he came down with Cancer and died. When he died, the dealership was taken over by people that were his dept heads, from then on it was downhill, the customers nor employes didn't matter. They didn't understand you can't just make money selling a car, it's a trust that keeps on selling things. If you don't stand behind your product, you don't have a future to build on. In 1978 I took my services else where, some of my friends stayed and rode it into the ground, I must say it lasted longer than I thought, but I know they hated going to work.
I still drive two Fords 1978's, but I no-longer attempt to tell folks to buy the products, not because they are no good, but because of the policies of the companies and dealers. Jim
Where am I coming from, I was a Ford dealer mechanic, at from 1964-1978, in this same city, when the dealership was ran by other people. The owner was a man whose looks were a little rough, not what you would call friendly looking, as far as public appeal. He had billboards put up all over the county with his picture full sized on them, asking "Would you Buy A New Car from this Man". People would, and did, because they knew that if you had a problem with the product, He, would see that you as his customer would see that it was made right. I have seen him fire the same person 3 times a week in rage, but it didn't matter because you knew he was fair.
I was just a grunt in Viet Nam 1966, when he came down with Cancer and died. When he died, the dealership was taken over by people that were his dept heads, from then on it was downhill, the customers nor employes didn't matter. They didn't understand you can't just make money selling a car, it's a trust that keeps on selling things. If you don't stand behind your product, you don't have a future to build on. In 1978 I took my services else where, some of my friends stayed and rode it into the ground, I must say it lasted longer than I thought, but I know they hated going to work.
I still drive two Fords 1978's, but I no-longer attempt to tell folks to buy the products, not because they are no good, but because of the policies of the companies and dealers. Jim
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Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opini ... .html?_r=1While Detroit Slept
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: December 9, 2008
As I think about our bailing out Detroit, I can’t help but reflect on what, in my view, is the most important rule of business in today’s integrated and digitized global market, where knowledge and innovation tools are so widely distributed. It’s this: Whatever can be done, will be done. The only question is will it be done by you or to you. Just don’t think it won’t be done. If you have an idea in Detroit or Tennessee, promise me that you’ll pursue it, because someone in Denmark or Tel Aviv will do so a second later.
Why do I bring this up? Because someone in the mobility business in Denmark and Tel Aviv is already developing a real-world alternative to Detroit’s business model. I don’t know if this alternative to gasoline-powered cars will work, but I do know that it can be done — and Detroit isn’t doing it. And therefore it will be done, and eventually, I bet, it will be done profitably.
And when it is, our bailout of Detroit will be remembered as the equivalent of pouring billions of dollars of taxpayer money into the mail-order-catalogue business on the eve of the birth of eBay. It will be remembered as pouring billions of dollars into the CD music business on the eve of the birth of the iPod and iTunes. It will be remembered as pouring billions of dollars into a book-store chain on the eve of the birth of Amazon.com and the Kindle. It will be remembered as pouring billions of dollars into improving typewriters on the eve of the birth of the PC and the Internet.
What business model am I talking about? It is Shai Agassi’s electric car network company, called Better Place. Just last week, the company, based in Palo Alto, Calif., announced a partnership with the state of Hawaii to road test its business plan there after already inking similar deals with Israel, Australia, the San Francisco Bay area and, yes, Denmark.
The Better Place electric car charging system involves generating electrons from as much renewable energy — such as wind and solar — as possible and then feeding those clean electrons into a national electric car charging infrastructure. This consists of electricity charging spots with plug-in outlets — the first pilots were opened in Israel this week — plus battery-exchange stations all over the respective country. The whole system is then coordinated by a service control center that integrates and does the billing.
Under the Better Place model, consumers can either buy or lease an electric car from the French automaker Renault or Japanese companies like Nissan (General Motors snubbed Agassi) and then buy miles on their electric car batteries from Better Place the way you now buy an Apple cellphone and the minutes from AT&T. That way Better Place, or any car company that partners with it, benefits from each mile you drive. G.M. sells cars. Better Place is selling mobility miles.
The first Renault and Nissan electric cars are scheduled to hit Denmark and Israel in 2011, when the whole system should be up and running. On Tuesday, Japan’s Ministry of Environment invited Better Place to join the first government-led electric car project along with Honda, Mitsubishi and Subaru. Better Place was the only foreign company invited to participate, working with Japan’s leading auto companies, to build a battery swap station for electric cars in Yokohama, the Detroit of Japan.
What I find exciting about Better Place is that it is building a car company off the new industrial platform of the 21st century, not the one from the 20th — the exact same way that Steve Jobs did to overturn the music business. What did Apple understand first? One, that today’s technology platform would allow anyone with a computer to record music. Two, that the Internet and MP3 players would allow anyone to transfer music in digital form to anyone else. You wouldn’t need CDs or record companies anymore. Apple simply took all those innovations and integrated them into a single music-generating, purchasing and listening system that completely disrupted the music business.
What Agassi, the founder of Better Place, is saying is that there is a new way to generate mobility, not just music, using the same platform. It just takes the right kind of auto battery — the iPod in this story — and the right kind of national plug-in network — the iTunes store — to make the business model work for electric cars at six cents a mile. The average American is paying today around 12 cents a mile for gasoline transportation, which also adds to global warming and strengthens petro-dictators.
Do not expect this innovation to come out of Detroit. Remember, in 1908, the Ford Model-T got better mileage — 25 miles per gallon — than many Ford, G.M. and Chrysler models made in 2008. But don’t be surprised when it comes out of somewhere else. It can be done. It will be done. If we miss the chance to win the race for Car 2.0 because we keep mindlessly bailing out Car 1.0, there will be no one to blame more than Detroit’s new shareholders: we the taxpayers.
» A version of this article appeared in print on December 10, 2008, on page A41 of the New York edition.
Rooster
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related
- DreamStalker
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Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
The problem with American business is that work pride was traded for greed. When I was a teen working at a grocery store I and my friends took pride in our job and the work we did. When I went to college, I took pride in the homework assignments that I turned in. My career job doesn't pay much when you consider all the time and effort I spent at the universities (not to mention my school loans) but I take pride in the work I get paid to do.
You go to the store now days and the kids just throw your groceries into the bag like they were someone else's trash, the kids I taught as a grad student spent more effort trying to get out of turning in their homework assignments than it would take to just do them and now those kids insist on multi-million dollar bonuses for driving business into the ground and asking for bailouts .... they just don't make American work pride the way they used to.
You go to the store now days and the kids just throw your groceries into the bag like they were someone else's trash, the kids I taught as a grad student spent more effort trying to get out of turning in their homework assignments than it would take to just do them and now those kids insist on multi-million dollar bonuses for driving business into the ground and asking for bailouts .... they just don't make American work pride the way they used to.
President-pretender, J. Biden, said "the DNC has built the largest voter fraud organization in US history". Too bad they didn’t build the smartest voter fraud organization and got caught.
Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
Well, I guess you all get your wish. Y'all will really get to see just how much the auto industry in Chapter 11 affects the economy.
Scott
Scott
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Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
i see the senate shot it down---well now we will be on a great adventure,,,i hope it works out and this isn't the biggest mistke they could make....2-3 million is a lot out of work--who pays the unemployment benny's,, me? i guess thats what all who wanted it to fail want to do--pay their unemployment---at this time we need to look at our pockets,,, today----mine looks empty for the future
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Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
Your pocket was emptied back in September ... that is if you had anything left over in there from the cost of shock and awe in Iraq.
President-pretender, J. Biden, said "the DNC has built the largest voter fraud organization in US history". Too bad they didn’t build the smartest voter fraud organization and got caught.
Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
well then i guess its up to ---the bush to bail them out!---and save my pocket from the few penny's left
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Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
I like Friedman's ideas ... not just regarding this specific issue but generally all issues he discusses make a lot of sense.rooster wrote:While Detroit Slept
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: December 9, 2008
BTW -
This whole bailout-mania is a big corporate fraud. Listen to the interview of Elizabeth Warren and then search out the just released TARP audit report and you will realize the tax payers are being flim-flammed for hundreds of billions going on trillions of dollars. It is "weapons of mass destruction" fear mongering hysteria all over again to mislead the public into thinking like sheep.
oops ... here is the Warren interview link ... http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=9156929
Last edited by DreamStalker on Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
President-pretender, J. Biden, said "the DNC has built the largest voter fraud organization in US history". Too bad they didn’t build the smartest voter fraud organization and got caught.
Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
Then guvment oughtta cut off any further funding to the freaking financial industry and insist on repayment of what they've tossed down the tubes of the financial industry NOW. Let Wall Street drown in its own avarice and mismanagement as well.
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Women are Angels. And when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly.....on a broomstick. We are flexible like that.
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.
Re: OT, How the auto bailout works . . .
Can't help but observe that "worker pay" was never an issue when it came to bailing out banks. Rethuglicans have always hated unions and this was their great chance to piss on them for good and you can bet they could care less what the consequences of their actions will be.
JeffH
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