crud in my humidifier tank

alnhwrd · Post by **alnhwrd** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:36 pm

Basconero,

Crud is American slang for unidentifed "dirt" "mold" "mildew" or general icky or nasty stuff. Something that would cause you to make a face if you found it on your finger, plate, or humidifier tank. It would also make you want to clean whatever you found it on to get it off as quickly as you could. Hope this helps.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:40 pm

If you cannot find distilled water where you live, you need to either get equipment that distills water or reverse-osmosis water purifying equipment. Everyone I've ever heard from, both on this forum and on the DME side agrees on this. You don't want to be breathing in that crud, it would be very bad.

If there was no way to get distilled water, I'd go without a humidifier.

boston · Post by **boston** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:36 pm

Guest wrote:If you cannot find distilled water where you live, you need to either get equipment that distills water or reverse-osmosis water purifying equipment. Everyone I've ever heard from, both on this forum and on the DME side agrees on this. You don't want to be breathing in that crud, it would be very bad.

If there was no way to get distilled water, I'd go without a humidifier.

my DME told me use distilled OR regular bottled water, and ive used nothing but bottled water for 2 months now, washed the tank 2 times (didnt really need it) and top off nightly, never had a problem. and besides, i think when traveling, bottled water will be easier to find.

birdshell · Post by **birdshell** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:46 pm

Say it ain't so...we are dangerously close to the dreadeded "clean the crud off your cpap" discussussion. (Misspellings are intended to indicate ALARM!)

The truth is that there are as many cleaning methods, seemingly, as there are CPAP users and/or sleep professionals.

1. I do clean my equipment at least 2 times a month, although sometimes I have been known to go for 4 times a month, or weekly.

2. Even though I do try to use distilled water, I have been known to go a month or more with only tap water to feed my hungry humidity receptacle. ResMed officially approved of this when I asked, telling me that if using tap water one should daily:
a. dump the excess water after one night;
b. use unscented and additive free dishwashing liquid and hot tap water to rinse it;
c. rinse thoroughly with hot tap water; and,
d. allow to air-dry;
e. refill for the next night.

3. I personally don't think there is any need to soak anything for hours unless one wishes to do so; a half-hour of a 1:10 vinegar to water soak is what I was told in my training. That isn't to say that soaking for longer is going to cause a problem, just that it isn't necessary. It only takes a few minutes for the straight vinegar to dissolve those calcium/lime deposits. This is especially true if one rubs the deposit lightly.

4. I have had no crud or anything (except some calcium/lime deposits when using tap water) in my humidifier tank UNTIL...

After staying in a hotel room for a week, I moved to another hotel. While filling my tank with distilled water in the new room, I discovered...

...about 8 tiny MOLD spots in the back bottom trench.

Never one to delay in removing <shudder> mold from my water, I quickly used some of the hotel shampoo (and my supply of Q-tips supplemented by cheap hotel tissues) to wash out the tank with very hot water, rinsed it within an inch of its life (I'm allergic to fragrances such as are found in hotel shampoos), and continued to fill the tank with the distilled water.

The next thing I did was to tell Slinky. (She was the closest and most accessible forum member at the time.) We determined that it must have been a rare, chance occurrence.

I don't know if it means anything, but...I got back home and found that I was due for a new humidifier tank. So, chance occurrence or humidifier tank failure...you be the judge. However, I'm still using the same tank and nothing more has grown in my humidifier.

Karen,
Who won't re-write her entire cleaning

scheme

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:21 pm

Yup, yup, BirdShell did tell me about those yucky little black mold spots. And, I gotta tell ya, since we had been and were traveling together it spooked me! Even tho I saw NOTHING in mine I emptied my humidifier tank and refilled it w/HOT water and a PoliDent Denture cleanser tablet. TWICE. Then rinsed it well. Borrowed some vinegar and rinsed it some more.

birdshell · Post by **birdshell** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:13 am

JEEZ, YOU HAD VINEGAR!!!

If only I had known....

In all seriousness, though, Slinky did offer me a denture tablet. THAT is what friends are for.

Karen

preemiern · Post by **preemiern** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:32 am

I only use distilled water in my humidifier as well, and i clean my humidifier as often as Rested Gal does and have never had an issue. The only time mine gets cleaned is when I empty it to go on a trip. I just top off the water when needed. Also--I have never cleaned my hose, and it looks fine...no appearance of mold or anything. Also, I very seldom get sick with a cold or respiratory stuff. When I first started CPAP, I cleaned everything faithfully once a week, and emptied my humidifier every day and washed it with antibacterial dishwashing soap and let it dry. That all got old really fast though... and since I quit washing everything, I haven't noticed any difference in the number of colds I get per year. I guess that which doesn't kill ya' makes ya' stronger.
Cindy

deerhound · Post by **deerhound** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:19 am

I used to be an operator in a power plant. The water used in high pressure boilers has to be extremely pure in order to prevent deposits on the turbine blades caused by carryover of minerals in the steam. The water produced by our demineralizer was purer than what our evaporators (distilled) were able to make. Both sources of water were very pure in any case. If all you can find is demineralized water it should be as good for our humidifiers as distilled water

Dale

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:23 am

Yeah, yeah. My momma always told me we had to eat a bushel of dirt before we died. And one of the theories of why Crohn's disease is so much more prevalent in industrialized countries is 'cause they are more conscious of sanitation and we kinda keep ourselves and our environment too clean so our immune systems aren't as strong as those who live w/less sanitation.

BirdShell, the staff had some sent up from the kitchen!!

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:37 am

deerhound wrote:I used to be an operator in a power plant. The water used in high pressure boilers has to be extremely pure in order to prevent deposits on the turbine blades caused by carryover of minerals in the steam. The water produced by our demineralizer was purer than what our evaporators (distilled) were able to make. Both sources of water were very pure in any case. If all you can find is demineralized water it should be as good for our humidifiers as distilled water

Dale

With due respect ... distilled water is the purest form of water and even then it may have trace amounts of volitile organic molecules.

Also, just because water is free of dissolved mineral ions does not mean it is free of biologic "crud". I agree though that demineralized water should be ok with HH as would RO water.

Obviously, your power plant evaporators were not meant to create distalled quality water.

.... but what do I know? I'm just a hydrologist.

echo · Post by **echo** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:50 am

I didn't have the crud issue in my tank until I moved into a different house. It is an older house and seems to trap mold everywhere (we're having a pretty bad infestation in the bathroom at the moment).

Anyway, haven't we already discussed in previous threads that it's nearly impossible for bugs/bacteria/etc to travel with the water vapor up the hose and into the mask?

And distilled water, once opened, will also lose its sterility and can pick up stuff in the air.

I would LOVE to use real distilled water if I could find it here. For the moment I'm happy with the demineralized water, and I clean out the tank regularly. No issues so far.

p.s. if the demineralized water is being sold for use in a home humidifier, I would also infer that mean it's ok for use in a CPAP humidifier.

deerhound · Post by **deerhound** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:53 am

While I agree with you that distilled water should be the purest form of water, I doubt that the commercially available distilled water is as pure as that required for 2400 psi boilers. An interesting thing is that the RO water produced from the plant's wastewater was so pure that the mixed bed demineralizer used to polish it could run for months without being regenerated. I use RO water in my HH without any problems.

Dale

Catnapper · Post by **Catnapper** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:20 am

I would get a new humidifier reservoir. They are not that expensive. Your lungs are not worth risking.

tuna · Post by **tuna** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:36 am

I haven't cleaned my HH ever, I just keep it topped off and replace it every 3 months. Same the hose.. I never get crud!

GaryGarland · Post by **GaryGarland** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:58 pm

i'm no hydrologist, but my freshwater fish (and pool) chemistry taught me a few things - i believe we're really talking about water hardness here - distilled water (and apparently demineralized) are either boiled and collected, or filtered through ions, respectivelly, with the result that hey, it's pretty pure water! (and i'd say purer than bottled drinking water). From a pool/fishtank standpoint, the water is soft - it's looking to "grab" whatever chemicals it can - in the case of a pool, it strips the metal or plaster, etc. - expensive! if the water is overloaded with minerals, (calcium), it is then hard - and looks to leave a deposit.
i was told (and read) to use distilled water with the humidifier - so naturally the first night i used tap water! in the morning after i dumped it i saw mineral deposits (chlorine?) where the little bits of water were before they dried out - since then i've used distilled water - and as the water is soft i imagine it actually absorbed the minerals and eventually got them out of there - or diuted them or whatever.
i keep reading about 10% white vinegar, and i've used bleach with my bicycling water bottles and resevoirs for years - and including my kid's drinky bottles - bleach is actually fairly non-reactive (from what i've seen) and yeah, i use the laundry stuff - just rinse that puppy well
alternatively, if you're just looking at mineral deposits, i do know of CLR (calcium, lime, rust) remover that i've used on sinks in the past - i guess you can clean that out well also but i don't know if it would scratch or how it would be in a resevoir.
personally, i'd use bleach, and then distalled (or demineralized) water religiously after that - if you haven't scratched the plastic i'm betting over time the soft water will actually remove the deposits. just my .02

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