I am assuming it's OK to take benadryl while on the hose, but I am just making sure. I am thinking about taking some tonight to help me sleep AND try to get decongested, which I think is part of the reason I'm having problems breathing on bipap (I adjusted my pressure a bit already). I don't normally do pills- I'll take an Advil if I have cramps, that's it. Anyone have any wisdom or experiences to share?
-Grace
benadryl?
benadryl?
Not your stereotypical xpap user! 5 feet tall, healthy weight, female, and 23. I've had OSA undiagnosed at least since high school.
In addition to OSA, I also order up random food I don't like while I'm asleep.
In addition to OSA, I also order up random food I don't like while I'm asleep.
Re: benadryl?
I've only been on the machine since 8/8 and 800 hours but have used 2 walgreens benedryl tablets many nights on the machine with no problems.they work for me like taking sleeping pills which i also have used with no problems.hope this helps Jon
_________________
| Mask: Mirage Activa™ LT Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear |
| Additional Comments: Wife has same setup & Have Respironics DS100 M series & DS500 auto W/C-flex Backup Machines |
Re: benadryl?
I recommend against Benadryl (diphenhydramine) because it has a strong sedating effect and tends to dry the nasal membranes. The sedating effect will help you sleep but it is believed the sleep architecture is not normal and leaves many people groggy and tired the next morning.ciounoi wrote:I am assuming it's OK to take benadryl while on the hose, but I am just making sure. I am thinking about taking some tonight to help me sleep AND try to get decongested, which I think is part of the reason I'm having problems breathing on bipap (I adjusted my pressure a bit already). I don't normally do pills- I'll take an Advil if I have cramps, that's it. Anyone have any wisdom or experiences to share?
-Grace
Instead try generic loratadine (Claritin) or Zyrtec for the antihistamine effects. The use of a neti pot (here is one brand: http://www.sinucleanse.com/product/neti.htm?link_id=1) upon arising in the morning and again in the early evening will help with congestion. See also comments of Dr. Falcon and myself at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36483&start=15
If the antihistamine and nasal rinses do not resolve the problem, then see an ENT/allergist.
Good luck,
Rooster
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related
Re: benadryl?
Hi, Grace,ciounoi wrote:I am assuming it's OK to take benadryl while on the hose, but I am just making sure. I am thinking about taking some tonight to help me sleep AND try to get decongested, which I think is part of the reason I'm having problems breathing on bipap (I adjusted my pressure a bit already). I don't normally do pills- I'll take an Advil if I have cramps, that's it. Anyone have any wisdom or experiences to share?
-Grace
Regular Benadryl, since it's just an antihistamine, won't help with congestion, only post-nasal drip, runny nose, itching, sneezing--that type of thing. To help with congestion, you need a decongestant, and they can sometimes keep you awake. If you get a combo that has the decongestant and the antihistamine, the antihistamine may win out and make you sleepy, depending on what kind of antihistamine you get.
I've used Benadryl in the past because it does help me get to sleep, but it also gives me a "hangover" in the morning. It's also the only thing that seems to help me with the bad post-nasal drip and sneezing I get in the spring and fall.
Many people here have great success with the nasal rinse things like the Netti pot. I can't use them because it does something weird to my ears. (It says something about that in the instructions, so I guess I'm not the only one!)
Prescription steroid nasal sprays can also help, but take a while to build up start doing some good, plus you need to use them daily.
Pam
_________________
| Machine: DreamStation 2 Auto CPAP Advanced with Humidifier |
| Additional Comments: Oscar Software | APAP: 9-10 |
Innomed Hybrid Mask
Re: benadryl?
Grace, Yes, I also agree with Rooster's and Pam's caution against using Benadryl at night for the purposes of helping you get to sleep and breathe better through your nose at night.
Benadryl is in the class of medications known as the “sedating antihistamines,” because it can cause some drowsiness as a side-effect for some people. Not surprisingly, there are some people with insomnia who even take Benadryl periodically at night as a sleep aid. Additionally, this medicine would 'seem' to be a 'logical' choice to use at night to help clear up nasal secretions as well, which can occur (and/or worsen) during sleep.
However, many people report that they usually don’t feel well-rested the next day after using Benadryl, despite even having slept for as many as 8 hours or more. Benadryl even gives many people who use it at night a 'hang over'-like feeling the next day, as Pam described. This is likely because Benadryl can disrupt the brain's normal "sleep architecture" at night, when people use it at bedtime.
As Rooster mentioned, you might want to check out our discussion about the use of one of the 'non-sedating antihistamines' (Claritin, Zyrtec, or Allegra) at night before bedtime, located at: viewtopic/t36483/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36 ... a&start=15
These three 'non-sedating antihistamines' typically don't negatively affect the brain's sleep architecture at night if taken at bedtime. And even though they're called "non-sedating", they can potentially have a slight sedating effect for some people (e.g., Zyrtec) who use them. In the discussion in the previous string that I gave a link to above, I describe how ALL of my sleep-disordered breathing symptoms have been relieved, by simply taking a Claritin tablet at night just before bedtime. And I also sleep like a baby.
In my posts on that string I also discuss Allegra-D, which is a combination antihistamine and decongestant. I also get EXCELLENT relief of all of my sleep-disordered breathing related symptoms at night, when I take it at bedtime (even superior results than I get with Claritin at bedtime). I usually only need to take a HALF of a tablet of Allegra-D at bedtime, and I am in heaven the next day. Be aware however, as Rooster pointed out on our other string, that the "D" part of Allegra-D, which is pseudoephedrine, can cause insomnia as a possible side-effect in some people who use it, even though I didn't experience this as a side effect. (You'll need a prescription for it, so discuss it with your medical provider.) If you do decide to give Allegra-D a try, you may want to just start out with a half or three-quarters of a tablet at bedtime for a few nights, and see what results you get.
Also, using a neti pot during the daytime can be a means of helping to clear up your congestion in the long-run, as Rooster pointed out. There's lots of good info on-line about the use of a neti pot (such as at the SinuCleanse website, which Rooster gave a link to).
In addition to, or as an alternative to, using a neti pot, there are some other good ways of flushing your sinuses and nasal passageways out with salt water. Below, I've cut and pasted some tips I wrote on how to do this. [It's from one of the sections of my ebook, at http://www.uarsrelief.com.]
Best of luck!
-------------------------------------------------------------
FEELING CLEAN AND CLEAR WITH NASAL SINUS IRRIGATION, DONE THE RIGHT WAY!
Regularly flushing out your nasal passages with warm salt water (saline) is an excellent way to clear and prevent sinus blockages and infections. Sinuses are hollow chambers that connect to the back of our nasal passage by small openings. The major sets of sinuses reside behind the cheeks and in the forehead, on either side of the nose.
Sinuses help us to add resonance to our voice when we speak. Unfortunately, they are lined with mucous membranes that easily become irritated and infected. Mucous and other debris then builds up in our sinuses, and can cause pain, headache, ‘post-nasal drip,’ and even bad breath! Furthermore, sinus congestion also contributes to nasal stuffiness, which can worsen symptoms in patients who snore or who have other sleep-disordered breathing conditions.
Flushing out your sinuses with a simple solution of warm water and salt can help to dissolve mucous, and the flushing action helps remove infectious debris from your sinuses and nasal passages. All you need for this simple procedure is a large cup, some warm water, salt, and a bulb syringe. (Bulb syringes are available at most drug stores, often in the baby care section. Ask the pharmacist or clerk for help in finding one.)
Fill a large cup with warm water and mix in 1 – 2 heaping teaspoons of salt (the water should taste salty). Draw some of the mixture up into the bulb syringe. Stand over a sink and squirt the saltwater into a nostril of your nose in such a fashion that you are able to spit some of the saline out of your mouth. This suggests that you are doing an adequate job of irrigating the entire nose. Aim the stream of saline as though you are trying to squirt the back of your head, NOT the top of your head. It is acceptable to carefully breathe the saltwater directly into the nose.
Try tilting your head slightly in different directions, such as slightly back, and then from side to side, to be sure the saltwater gets into each of your sinuses. For best results, try the following: Keep your head tilted slightly back and to the left side. Instill a large quantity of saltwater into your left nostril. You may be able to feel the saltwater filling up the sinus passages on the side your head is tilted toward. Allow the saltwater to SIT in your sinuses for a minute or so. Then you can tilt your head forward and spit out the fluid. Now, repeat this same procedure on the right side. Be patient and don’t give up. You’ll get the hang of this and improve with practice. (The results will be well worth the effort!)
Continue the whole process until you have used up all of the saltwater in the cup. You can perform this procedure up to one or more times each day, for maximum benefit.
If you have a baby who is experiencing nasal congestion from a mild cold, you can use an eyedropper to place several drops of saltwater solution into each nostril. This will help flush through mucus blockages, and the residue will wash down the back of the throat. Commercial nasal saline drops, along with a dropper, are also available for this purpose at most drug stores. (Of course, as always, consult a medical provider.)
The benefits of nasal saline irrigation are three-fold:
1. Saltwater is a solvent. It cleans mucous, crusts and other debris from the nasal passages.
2. It decongests the nose and sinuses. Because of the salt concentration in the water, fluid is pulled out of the membranes. This shrinks the membranes somewhat, which improves nasal air flow and opens sinus passages.
3. It improves nasal drainage. Studies have shown that saltwater cleansing of the nasal membranes improves ciliary beating so that normal mucous is transported better from the sinuses through the nose and into the throat. (Cilia are the tiny moving hairs that line mucous membranes.)
Further info: The amount of salt which you should add to the water will depend on your tolerance. The aim is to approximate the 'salinity,' or salt content, of sea water. When you start the nasal flushing, if you feel irritation and burning it means you probably added too much salt. Therefore, add a little more water for dilution and try again. Experiment with this as needed, until you are comfortable with the solution. Also, to make the solution less irritating, you can add one teaspoon of Arm & Hammer Baking Soda (pure bicarbonate) to the mixture.
If saltwater irrigation is new to you, feel free to use simple table salt to mix up your solutions. As you become more accustomed to this process however, you’ll want to use a purer form of salt, such as either canning, pickling, or “sea salt,” as these have few to no additives. Common table salt contains additives which can include iodine, preservatives, and even sugar. Iodine can actually be beneficial, as it has an antibacterial effect. If you use one of the purer forms of salt, buy a small bottle of iodine and add a few drops to your saltwater solution, if you desire this extra effect.
Once you start enjoying the benefits of nasal saline irrigation, you may want to try a more advanced method. This will allow you to get even more saltwater back into your sinus passages for greater effect.
First, you’ll need to obtain a large plastic basin (such as a plastic dishpan) and some towels. Place a towel on the floor next to the side of your bed. Next, prepare a large cup of warm saltwater solution. Take a large gulp of the solution into your mouth, set the cup aside, and sit in the middle of your bed. Now, lay back quickly across your bed, onto your back, and allow your head to hang back over the edge of the bed. Align yourself so that your head is hanging over the towel you’ve placed on the floor. As you lay back, you’ll notice that the saltwater will work its way back up into your nose and sinuses. Again, as described above, tilt your head in different angles, so the saltwater can get into each of your different sinus passages. Turn your head all the way to the right and hold. Then turn your head all the way to the left and hold. Hold each angle for 20 seconds or so. This way the saline will be allowed to dissolve mucous as it sits in your sinuses.
After a bit, you can sit up and spit out the used solution into the basin, which you should keep nearby. Get another big gulp of saline in your mouth and lay back and repeat the procedure. The towel stays on the floor under where your head is, so that it catches any saltwater that may drip out of your nose or mouth, as you are leaning back over it on your bed. Continue the whole process until you have used up all of the saltwater in the cup. Consider performing this procedure up to one or more times a day in severe cases of chronic sinus congestion, for maximum benefit.
Benadryl is in the class of medications known as the “sedating antihistamines,” because it can cause some drowsiness as a side-effect for some people. Not surprisingly, there are some people with insomnia who even take Benadryl periodically at night as a sleep aid. Additionally, this medicine would 'seem' to be a 'logical' choice to use at night to help clear up nasal secretions as well, which can occur (and/or worsen) during sleep.
However, many people report that they usually don’t feel well-rested the next day after using Benadryl, despite even having slept for as many as 8 hours or more. Benadryl even gives many people who use it at night a 'hang over'-like feeling the next day, as Pam described. This is likely because Benadryl can disrupt the brain's normal "sleep architecture" at night, when people use it at bedtime.
As Rooster mentioned, you might want to check out our discussion about the use of one of the 'non-sedating antihistamines' (Claritin, Zyrtec, or Allegra) at night before bedtime, located at: viewtopic/t36483/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36 ... a&start=15
These three 'non-sedating antihistamines' typically don't negatively affect the brain's sleep architecture at night if taken at bedtime. And even though they're called "non-sedating", they can potentially have a slight sedating effect for some people (e.g., Zyrtec) who use them. In the discussion in the previous string that I gave a link to above, I describe how ALL of my sleep-disordered breathing symptoms have been relieved, by simply taking a Claritin tablet at night just before bedtime. And I also sleep like a baby.
In my posts on that string I also discuss Allegra-D, which is a combination antihistamine and decongestant. I also get EXCELLENT relief of all of my sleep-disordered breathing related symptoms at night, when I take it at bedtime (even superior results than I get with Claritin at bedtime). I usually only need to take a HALF of a tablet of Allegra-D at bedtime, and I am in heaven the next day. Be aware however, as Rooster pointed out on our other string, that the "D" part of Allegra-D, which is pseudoephedrine, can cause insomnia as a possible side-effect in some people who use it, even though I didn't experience this as a side effect. (You'll need a prescription for it, so discuss it with your medical provider.) If you do decide to give Allegra-D a try, you may want to just start out with a half or three-quarters of a tablet at bedtime for a few nights, and see what results you get.
Also, using a neti pot during the daytime can be a means of helping to clear up your congestion in the long-run, as Rooster pointed out. There's lots of good info on-line about the use of a neti pot (such as at the SinuCleanse website, which Rooster gave a link to).
In addition to, or as an alternative to, using a neti pot, there are some other good ways of flushing your sinuses and nasal passageways out with salt water. Below, I've cut and pasted some tips I wrote on how to do this. [It's from one of the sections of my ebook, at http://www.uarsrelief.com.]
Best of luck!
-------------------------------------------------------------
FEELING CLEAN AND CLEAR WITH NASAL SINUS IRRIGATION, DONE THE RIGHT WAY!
Regularly flushing out your nasal passages with warm salt water (saline) is an excellent way to clear and prevent sinus blockages and infections. Sinuses are hollow chambers that connect to the back of our nasal passage by small openings. The major sets of sinuses reside behind the cheeks and in the forehead, on either side of the nose.
Sinuses help us to add resonance to our voice when we speak. Unfortunately, they are lined with mucous membranes that easily become irritated and infected. Mucous and other debris then builds up in our sinuses, and can cause pain, headache, ‘post-nasal drip,’ and even bad breath! Furthermore, sinus congestion also contributes to nasal stuffiness, which can worsen symptoms in patients who snore or who have other sleep-disordered breathing conditions.
Flushing out your sinuses with a simple solution of warm water and salt can help to dissolve mucous, and the flushing action helps remove infectious debris from your sinuses and nasal passages. All you need for this simple procedure is a large cup, some warm water, salt, and a bulb syringe. (Bulb syringes are available at most drug stores, often in the baby care section. Ask the pharmacist or clerk for help in finding one.)
Fill a large cup with warm water and mix in 1 – 2 heaping teaspoons of salt (the water should taste salty). Draw some of the mixture up into the bulb syringe. Stand over a sink and squirt the saltwater into a nostril of your nose in such a fashion that you are able to spit some of the saline out of your mouth. This suggests that you are doing an adequate job of irrigating the entire nose. Aim the stream of saline as though you are trying to squirt the back of your head, NOT the top of your head. It is acceptable to carefully breathe the saltwater directly into the nose.
Try tilting your head slightly in different directions, such as slightly back, and then from side to side, to be sure the saltwater gets into each of your sinuses. For best results, try the following: Keep your head tilted slightly back and to the left side. Instill a large quantity of saltwater into your left nostril. You may be able to feel the saltwater filling up the sinus passages on the side your head is tilted toward. Allow the saltwater to SIT in your sinuses for a minute or so. Then you can tilt your head forward and spit out the fluid. Now, repeat this same procedure on the right side. Be patient and don’t give up. You’ll get the hang of this and improve with practice. (The results will be well worth the effort!)
Continue the whole process until you have used up all of the saltwater in the cup. You can perform this procedure up to one or more times each day, for maximum benefit.
If you have a baby who is experiencing nasal congestion from a mild cold, you can use an eyedropper to place several drops of saltwater solution into each nostril. This will help flush through mucus blockages, and the residue will wash down the back of the throat. Commercial nasal saline drops, along with a dropper, are also available for this purpose at most drug stores. (Of course, as always, consult a medical provider.)
The benefits of nasal saline irrigation are three-fold:
1. Saltwater is a solvent. It cleans mucous, crusts and other debris from the nasal passages.
2. It decongests the nose and sinuses. Because of the salt concentration in the water, fluid is pulled out of the membranes. This shrinks the membranes somewhat, which improves nasal air flow and opens sinus passages.
3. It improves nasal drainage. Studies have shown that saltwater cleansing of the nasal membranes improves ciliary beating so that normal mucous is transported better from the sinuses through the nose and into the throat. (Cilia are the tiny moving hairs that line mucous membranes.)
Further info: The amount of salt which you should add to the water will depend on your tolerance. The aim is to approximate the 'salinity,' or salt content, of sea water. When you start the nasal flushing, if you feel irritation and burning it means you probably added too much salt. Therefore, add a little more water for dilution and try again. Experiment with this as needed, until you are comfortable with the solution. Also, to make the solution less irritating, you can add one teaspoon of Arm & Hammer Baking Soda (pure bicarbonate) to the mixture.
If saltwater irrigation is new to you, feel free to use simple table salt to mix up your solutions. As you become more accustomed to this process however, you’ll want to use a purer form of salt, such as either canning, pickling, or “sea salt,” as these have few to no additives. Common table salt contains additives which can include iodine, preservatives, and even sugar. Iodine can actually be beneficial, as it has an antibacterial effect. If you use one of the purer forms of salt, buy a small bottle of iodine and add a few drops to your saltwater solution, if you desire this extra effect.
Once you start enjoying the benefits of nasal saline irrigation, you may want to try a more advanced method. This will allow you to get even more saltwater back into your sinus passages for greater effect.
First, you’ll need to obtain a large plastic basin (such as a plastic dishpan) and some towels. Place a towel on the floor next to the side of your bed. Next, prepare a large cup of warm saltwater solution. Take a large gulp of the solution into your mouth, set the cup aside, and sit in the middle of your bed. Now, lay back quickly across your bed, onto your back, and allow your head to hang back over the edge of the bed. Align yourself so that your head is hanging over the towel you’ve placed on the floor. As you lay back, you’ll notice that the saltwater will work its way back up into your nose and sinuses. Again, as described above, tilt your head in different angles, so the saltwater can get into each of your different sinus passages. Turn your head all the way to the right and hold. Then turn your head all the way to the left and hold. Hold each angle for 20 seconds or so. This way the saline will be allowed to dissolve mucous as it sits in your sinuses.
After a bit, you can sit up and spit out the used solution into the basin, which you should keep nearby. Get another big gulp of saline in your mouth and lay back and repeat the procedure. The towel stays on the floor under where your head is, so that it catches any saltwater that may drip out of your nose or mouth, as you are leaning back over it on your bed. Continue the whole process until you have used up all of the saltwater in the cup. Consider performing this procedure up to one or more times a day in severe cases of chronic sinus congestion, for maximum benefit.
-
SuperGeeky
- Posts: 414
- Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 3:55 pm
- Location: MaryEtta, Gawga (Now a part of the Union)
Re: benadryl?
I started seeing a correlation between the nights I took Benadryl and a substantial increase in 'Avg time in Apnea per Day'. Matter of fact, it was scary!
I would suppose it's harder for the brain to arouse during an Apnea while being sedated with Benadryl. Anyway, I ran it past the Sleep
Doctor's nurse, she confirmed as such.
Take care,
SG
I would suppose it's harder for the brain to arouse during an Apnea while being sedated with Benadryl. Anyway, I ran it past the Sleep
Doctor's nurse, she confirmed as such.
Take care,
SG
_________________
| Humidifier | ||||
 | ||||
| Additional Comments: Cozy Hose, Hose Boss Management System, PapCap F Series | ||||
Re: benadryl?
Thanks for the info! I did try it last night and it did... pretty much nothing. I did feel much more relaxed, nowhere near sedated. It didn't really do much to help the congestedness, however. Maybe I will try Claritin tonight. Thanks!
Grace
Grace
Not your stereotypical xpap user! 5 feet tall, healthy weight, female, and 23. I've had OSA undiagnosed at least since high school.
In addition to OSA, I also order up random food I don't like while I'm asleep.
In addition to OSA, I also order up random food I don't like while I'm asleep.
Re: benadryl?
In 2004 I had not yet been diagnosed with sleep apnea. On the Sunday night of Memorial Day weekend I was having a lot of trouble in bed. I knew a tablet of Benadryl would put me in a deep long sleep so I took one. The next morning when I awoke I had a big problem and my life had been dramatically changed for the worse.SuperGeeky wrote:I started seeing a correlation between the nights I took Benadryl and a substantial increase in 'Avg time in Apnea per Day'. Matter of fact, it was scary!
I would suppose it's harder for the brain to arouse during an Apnea while being sedated with Benadryl. Anyway, I ran it past the Sleep
Doctor's nurse, she confirmed as such.
Take care,
SG
Eventually I was diagnosed with severe osa, started cpap and got educated about the condition. SG, I am now convinced that on that Sunday night in 2004 I suffered significant brain damage for the reason you mention. The Benadryl prevented arousals while I experienced long, repetitive apneas that night.
Rooster
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related
Re: benadryl?
Grace,
Please report back your results with taking a Claritin at bedtime, if you decide to do this (after a few nights of giving it a trial). I'm curious to know your results and how well it has worked for you.
This simple step has absolutely changed my entire life ( but again, the magic little key for me that I learned, is to take it at BEDTIME)!
Also, I hope you have a chance to read the very detailed discussion that rooster and I had previously about the non-sedating antihistamine class of medications (which includes Claritin), and how I remarkably discovered relief from ALL of my horrible sleep-disordered breathing related symptoms two years ago, simply by taking a Claritin at bedtime. (It was something that I sort of stumbled onto on my own, since I had never heard this recommended by anyone before, including my own doctors.)
Rooster and my detailed discussion on this topic, which includes my personal testimony, is located on this forum at: viewtopic/t36483/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36 ... a&start=15
Also, please bear in mind the importance of sleeping positions. I've learned, over the course of time and experimentation, that my ideal sleeping position at night is what is called, regrettably, the "(partial) swastika position." For obvious reasons, I DETEST this term…although I LOVE the sleep position. However, the image of a (partial) swastika seems to help people who've never seen it before to visualize this sleeping postion better, and so the term helps a bit when I attempt to describe this position to others. (Nonetheless, I sure hope someone comes up with a better name for it sometime soon!)
Here's a piece that I wrote on the topic of "Sleeping Positions", in which I also describe this important "swastika position" for sleeping at night (about half way down in my article below).
Best regards.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
SLEEPING POSITIONS - by Eric Falcon, MD
It is widely accepted that sleeping on your back tends to worsen all forms of sleep-disordered breathing, including UARS, sleep apnea, and snoring. Sleeping on the back allows gravity to pull the soft tissues of the palate, or the tongue, down into the back of the throat and cause airway narrowing, or as in the case of sleep apnea, complete obstruction.
Some doctors will even go so far as to advise patients with sleep-disordered breathing to sew a pocket into the back of their pajamas so that a tennis ball may be kept in it at night. After rolling onto your back at night during sleep and repeatedly experiencing the discomfort of the tennis ball continuously there, you soon "train" your subconscious mind to learn to avoid this sleeping position all together.
An easier alternative to sewing a pocket in the back of your pajamas is to just go out and buy a Dickies T-shirt or other type of T-shirt (which you can usually find in the men's section of K-mart) that has a pocket in the front upper left of the shirt. Simply put the shirt on backwards and place the tennis ball in the pocket, which is now in the upper right of the back. You get the same effect!
Sleeping on your side is preferable to sleeping on your back. When sleeping on your side try to keep your head, torso, and pelvis all in a straight line (when viewed from behind), which is a neutral anatomical position that will help to keep your spine in alignment. You can achieve this result by using a pillow of the proper height under your head and also by placing a flat pillow between your knees. Also, keep your knees and hips in a relaxed but flexed position and bent at 90 degree angles.
Many authorities feel that sleeping on the stomach, known as the "prone" position, is not a good idea. The reason for this is because it can lead to improper alignment of the spine, and because it can also place excessive pressure on the gastrointestinal organs throughout the night.
Yet doctors routinely advocate that patients with sleep-disordered breathing sleep on their stomach or side, however, and avoid sleeping on their backs. By sleeping on your side, or on your stomach with your head turned off to the side, this elicits the pull of gravity to cause the soft tissues of the palate and the tongue to fall somewhat forward and away from the back of the throat, preventing them from narrowing or obstructing the airway.
Believe it or not there actually is a PRONE sleeping position I have found which I believe retains the beneficial effects of gravity on the tissues of the back of the throat and tongue, as well as maintains some degree of proper spinal alignment, and also avoids excessive pressure on the internal organs.
This is often called the SWASTIKA SLEEPING POSITION (it's really only a PARTIAL swastika shape) because of the position of the arms, which are pointed in opposite directions away from each other, with the shoulders and the elbows bent at ninety degree angles.
Here's a complete description of the SWASTIKA SLEEPING POSITION: To start out with, first lay flat on your belly for a second and turn your head to the left. Now, bring your left arm up so that your upper arm is extending out at a ninety degree angle to the side of your torso, and your left elbow is bent ninety degrees, with your left hand pointing up away from your feet. (Your left hand ends up being next to your face, in this position.)
Next, extend your right arm out to the opposite side of your body at a ninety degree angle and bend your right elbow ninety degrees as well, with your right hand pointing down towards your feet. (You arms will now form a 'half-swastika' shape.)
Next, bring your left thigh up so that your left hip and knee are each bent at ninety degree angles. Keep the right leg extended straight downward, with no bend at the knee or hip. In this position you will find that your abdomen/belly and chest will be lifted slightly off of the bed, so that there is not a feeling of excessive pressure on your gastrointestinal organs. For added support and comfort, you can place a pillow under the left half of your chest and abdomen.
I find this to be an incredibly comfortable position which I can remain in all night long with no discomfort. By the way, no pillow is used under the head in this sleeping position. The side of your face rests directly on your flat bed and the spine of your neck, torso, and hips should all line up in a straight line.
You can also switch to the exact opposite side, using the swastika sleeping position, so that you're looking to the right instead, with your right hand now up in front of your face and your right knee and hip bent, and your left leg straight. Basically just use the same steps as I described above but replace the terms "left" with "right" and vice-versa.
Aside: Although this is my favorite sleeping position, I really DISLIKE the NAME that was given to it, for OBVIOUS REASONS! The image of a swastika however seems to help people who've never seen this sleeping position before to visualize it better, and so the term helps a bit when attempting to describe this sleeping position to others. Nonetheless, I sure hope someone comes up with a better name for it sometime soon!
Please report back your results with taking a Claritin at bedtime, if you decide to do this (after a few nights of giving it a trial). I'm curious to know your results and how well it has worked for you.
This simple step has absolutely changed my entire life ( but again, the magic little key for me that I learned, is to take it at BEDTIME)!
Also, I hope you have a chance to read the very detailed discussion that rooster and I had previously about the non-sedating antihistamine class of medications (which includes Claritin), and how I remarkably discovered relief from ALL of my horrible sleep-disordered breathing related symptoms two years ago, simply by taking a Claritin at bedtime. (It was something that I sort of stumbled onto on my own, since I had never heard this recommended by anyone before, including my own doctors.)
Rooster and my detailed discussion on this topic, which includes my personal testimony, is located on this forum at: viewtopic/t36483/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36 ... a&start=15
Also, please bear in mind the importance of sleeping positions. I've learned, over the course of time and experimentation, that my ideal sleeping position at night is what is called, regrettably, the "(partial) swastika position." For obvious reasons, I DETEST this term…although I LOVE the sleep position. However, the image of a (partial) swastika seems to help people who've never seen it before to visualize this sleeping postion better, and so the term helps a bit when I attempt to describe this position to others. (Nonetheless, I sure hope someone comes up with a better name for it sometime soon!)
Here's a piece that I wrote on the topic of "Sleeping Positions", in which I also describe this important "swastika position" for sleeping at night (about half way down in my article below).
Best regards.
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SLEEPING POSITIONS - by Eric Falcon, MD
It is widely accepted that sleeping on your back tends to worsen all forms of sleep-disordered breathing, including UARS, sleep apnea, and snoring. Sleeping on the back allows gravity to pull the soft tissues of the palate, or the tongue, down into the back of the throat and cause airway narrowing, or as in the case of sleep apnea, complete obstruction.
Some doctors will even go so far as to advise patients with sleep-disordered breathing to sew a pocket into the back of their pajamas so that a tennis ball may be kept in it at night. After rolling onto your back at night during sleep and repeatedly experiencing the discomfort of the tennis ball continuously there, you soon "train" your subconscious mind to learn to avoid this sleeping position all together.
An easier alternative to sewing a pocket in the back of your pajamas is to just go out and buy a Dickies T-shirt or other type of T-shirt (which you can usually find in the men's section of K-mart) that has a pocket in the front upper left of the shirt. Simply put the shirt on backwards and place the tennis ball in the pocket, which is now in the upper right of the back. You get the same effect!
Sleeping on your side is preferable to sleeping on your back. When sleeping on your side try to keep your head, torso, and pelvis all in a straight line (when viewed from behind), which is a neutral anatomical position that will help to keep your spine in alignment. You can achieve this result by using a pillow of the proper height under your head and also by placing a flat pillow between your knees. Also, keep your knees and hips in a relaxed but flexed position and bent at 90 degree angles.
Many authorities feel that sleeping on the stomach, known as the "prone" position, is not a good idea. The reason for this is because it can lead to improper alignment of the spine, and because it can also place excessive pressure on the gastrointestinal organs throughout the night.
Yet doctors routinely advocate that patients with sleep-disordered breathing sleep on their stomach or side, however, and avoid sleeping on their backs. By sleeping on your side, or on your stomach with your head turned off to the side, this elicits the pull of gravity to cause the soft tissues of the palate and the tongue to fall somewhat forward and away from the back of the throat, preventing them from narrowing or obstructing the airway.
Believe it or not there actually is a PRONE sleeping position I have found which I believe retains the beneficial effects of gravity on the tissues of the back of the throat and tongue, as well as maintains some degree of proper spinal alignment, and also avoids excessive pressure on the internal organs.
This is often called the SWASTIKA SLEEPING POSITION (it's really only a PARTIAL swastika shape) because of the position of the arms, which are pointed in opposite directions away from each other, with the shoulders and the elbows bent at ninety degree angles.
Here's a complete description of the SWASTIKA SLEEPING POSITION: To start out with, first lay flat on your belly for a second and turn your head to the left. Now, bring your left arm up so that your upper arm is extending out at a ninety degree angle to the side of your torso, and your left elbow is bent ninety degrees, with your left hand pointing up away from your feet. (Your left hand ends up being next to your face, in this position.)
Next, extend your right arm out to the opposite side of your body at a ninety degree angle and bend your right elbow ninety degrees as well, with your right hand pointing down towards your feet. (You arms will now form a 'half-swastika' shape.)
Next, bring your left thigh up so that your left hip and knee are each bent at ninety degree angles. Keep the right leg extended straight downward, with no bend at the knee or hip. In this position you will find that your abdomen/belly and chest will be lifted slightly off of the bed, so that there is not a feeling of excessive pressure on your gastrointestinal organs. For added support and comfort, you can place a pillow under the left half of your chest and abdomen.
I find this to be an incredibly comfortable position which I can remain in all night long with no discomfort. By the way, no pillow is used under the head in this sleeping position. The side of your face rests directly on your flat bed and the spine of your neck, torso, and hips should all line up in a straight line.
You can also switch to the exact opposite side, using the swastika sleeping position, so that you're looking to the right instead, with your right hand now up in front of your face and your right knee and hip bent, and your left leg straight. Basically just use the same steps as I described above but replace the terms "left" with "right" and vice-versa.
Aside: Although this is my favorite sleeping position, I really DISLIKE the NAME that was given to it, for OBVIOUS REASONS! The image of a swastika however seems to help people who've never seen this sleeping position before to visualize it better, and so the term helps a bit when attempting to describe this sleeping position to others. Nonetheless, I sure hope someone comes up with a better name for it sometime soon!
Re: benadryl?
Excellent advice Falcon.
I like the prone position as you described it. Unfortunately many of us are not be able to sleep prone due to interference with our cpap gear.
Obviously you have studied sleep position well. Are you able to write a description of the ideal positioning for side sleeping?
Oh, if you come up with something I have a good friend who is a creative marketing genius and came help with the naming.
I like the prone position as you described it. Unfortunately many of us are not be able to sleep prone due to interference with our cpap gear.
Obviously you have studied sleep position well. Are you able to write a description of the ideal positioning for side sleeping?
Oh, if you come up with something I have a good friend who is a creative marketing genius and came help with the naming.
Rooster
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related
Re: benadryl?
Rooster,
Actually, the partial swastika position that I described in my post above is very compatible with cpap gear, in my experience.
Back when I was using my cpap machine and facemask/headgear (Resmed Ultra Mirage II), I slept in this position very consistently and effectively each night, without any interference.
With this sleeping position I described, the head is kept turned completely to the side, while it rests flat against the bed. (The body is not actually completely prone, since the chest and abdomen stay lifted up off of the bed somewhat, because of the other elements of the sleeping position which I mentioned.)
With practice and conditioning, I also got accustomed to being able to switch from the left-facing position to the right-facing position while asleep, without any interference to my facemask/ headgear, for a greater degree of variety and comfort during the night. At first, I practiced this switching from left-facing to right-facing several times, consciously, before falling asleep at night for a couple of weeks. Then, my subconscious took over and I was able to switch from left- to right-facing a few times during the night while asleep, without interruption of my sleep.
I hope I described the partial swastika sleeping position adequately enough, in my post above.
Photographs can convey it much better. I'll get a few photographs taken of me lying in this position, in a few weeks. I'll check to see if it's possible to place photographs in posts on this forum. If so, I'll post them on the forum later.
Regards.
PS: Yeah, good idea about getting help with the renaming of this sleeping position. I LOVE this sleeping position and have used it nightly for well over three years now, with GREAT results; but the name of it has got to go!!
Actually, the partial swastika position that I described in my post above is very compatible with cpap gear, in my experience.
Back when I was using my cpap machine and facemask/headgear (Resmed Ultra Mirage II), I slept in this position very consistently and effectively each night, without any interference.
With this sleeping position I described, the head is kept turned completely to the side, while it rests flat against the bed. (The body is not actually completely prone, since the chest and abdomen stay lifted up off of the bed somewhat, because of the other elements of the sleeping position which I mentioned.)
With practice and conditioning, I also got accustomed to being able to switch from the left-facing position to the right-facing position while asleep, without any interference to my facemask/ headgear, for a greater degree of variety and comfort during the night. At first, I practiced this switching from left-facing to right-facing several times, consciously, before falling asleep at night for a couple of weeks. Then, my subconscious took over and I was able to switch from left- to right-facing a few times during the night while asleep, without interruption of my sleep.
I hope I described the partial swastika sleeping position adequately enough, in my post above.
Photographs can convey it much better. I'll get a few photographs taken of me lying in this position, in a few weeks. I'll check to see if it's possible to place photographs in posts on this forum. If so, I'll post them on the forum later.
Regards.
PS: Yeah, good idea about getting help with the renaming of this sleeping position. I LOVE this sleeping position and have used it nightly for well over three years now, with GREAT results; but the name of it has got to go!!
Re: benadryl?
As partial penance you are hereby requested to see Valykrie, http://valkyrie.unitedartists.com/ , with Tom Cruise to be released December 25. I saw a prescreening tonight and it is excellent!Falcon1 wrote:......... Although this is my favorite sleeping position, I really DISLIKE the NAME that was given to it, for OBVIOUS REASONS! The image of a swastika ........
Rooster
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related
Re: benadryl?
Rooster, Yes, that sounds fair. I guess it's a good idea to keep in mind that there can always be some "good apples" in a bunch.
I've been seeing the signs for "Valkyrie," with Tom Cruise prominently featured, along the southbound lane of the 405 freeway here in Los Angeles, which I drive to work on.
I didn't really have an idea of what the movie was about, but your post made me curious. I went and read, just now, a brief intro about it at the IMDB.com website. It's based on a true story. (There are no spoilers below, although there is a movie spoiler on the IMDB website):
"At the height of WW2, a group of high-ranking German officers hatched a plot to assassinate Adolf Hitler, and seize power of the military command in order to end the war. The operation was codenamed 'Valkyrie', for the emergency plan that was meant to be used in case of a revolt against the Nazi government…."
It looks intriguing. I'll have to take your suggestion and go see it!
I've been seeing the signs for "Valkyrie," with Tom Cruise prominently featured, along the southbound lane of the 405 freeway here in Los Angeles, which I drive to work on.
I didn't really have an idea of what the movie was about, but your post made me curious. I went and read, just now, a brief intro about it at the IMDB.com website. It's based on a true story. (There are no spoilers below, although there is a movie spoiler on the IMDB website):
"At the height of WW2, a group of high-ranking German officers hatched a plot to assassinate Adolf Hitler, and seize power of the military command in order to end the war. The operation was codenamed 'Valkyrie', for the emergency plan that was meant to be used in case of a revolt against the Nazi government…."
It looks intriguing. I'll have to take your suggestion and go see it!
-
san_fran_gal
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:51 am
- Location: San Francisco
Re: benadryl?
Falcon, I will try that sleeping position. If you could post a photo sometime, that would be helpful to those of us who are more visually inclined!
I'm curious: Are you no longer using CPAP?! I'll check for details in your correspondence with Rooster.
Do you (or anyone reading this) think that Ambien can effect sleep architecture like Benadryl apparently does? I took a dose during my two nights in the sleep ctr to make sure I slept, and my architecture was a mess. I'm a newbie, and haven't started collecting data yet, so don't know if it's better during my many drug-free attempts at CPAP.
I'm curious: Are you no longer using CPAP?! I'll check for details in your correspondence with Rooster.
Do you (or anyone reading this) think that Ambien can effect sleep architecture like Benadryl apparently does? I took a dose during my two nights in the sleep ctr to make sure I slept, and my architecture was a mess. I'm a newbie, and haven't started collecting data yet, so don't know if it's better during my many drug-free attempts at CPAP.
And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you
because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places.
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it. - Roald Dahl
because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places.
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it. - Roald Dahl
Re: benadryl?
san_fran_gal, Yes, I'll try to get a photo posted of this sleep position as soon as I'm able. Thanks for asking – sleeping positioning is a VERY important variable, I’ve found, when it comes to helping reduce the symptoms of sleep-disordered breathing conditions. (It’s not a cure, of course, but a good sleeping position can help a lot.)
Also, yes, I hope you'll get a chance to read my posts and my discussion with rooster in the other forum string, located at: viewtopic/t36483/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36 ... a&start=15
On those posts I describe the background of how I stumbled on a discovery that led to the complete relief of my sleep-disordered breathing related symptoms (after nearly 20 years of suffering with terrible daytime drowsiness & chronic fatigue, mild snoring, and recurring difficulty with arising in the morning out of bed).
My sleep studies had diagnosed me with Upper Airway Resistance Syndrome (UARS), since I didn't have any full 'apnea' episodes, just lots of hypopneas throughout the night and related desats, and because of my sleep-disordered breathing related symptoms. (Also, because of my interrupted sleep throughout the night caused by my snoring and hypopneas, I had only stage 1 and stage 2 sleep present during the night, with no stage 3 or stage 4 sleep, and no REM sleep at all, on my sleep studies.)
I was put on CPAP to treat my symptoms (which did provide relief to a degree, for a period of time) and I also even had palate surgery (I had a CAPSO procedure, which is similar to a UPPP, except that it's done with cauterization instead of a scalpel.) This procedure also gave me symptomatic relief, although it was only temporary, as well.
Anyway, I've been free of all symptoms (and off CPAP) for the past two years, since my discovery of simply taking a Claritin at BEDTIME (taking it at bedtime was the key, for me). (By the way, I am not and have never been an allergy sufferer, and I’ve never had any chronic daytime runny nose, sneezing, congestion, etc, in my life. Nor have I ever noticed any of these symptoms at bedtime – e.g., no problems with dustmites, that I’m aware of, etc.)
In my discussion with rooster on the other forum string, I discuss the other non-sedating antihistamines (besides Claritin), which some patients respond better to. (I'm now telling my patients with UARS and mild OSA about my personal experience, and what led to my relief, and I am seeing the same relief happening for many of them, as well as others that I tell about this who have UARS and mild OSA.)
Regarding your question about Ambien - I've not heard that it disrupts sleep architecture, as a common side-effect. (So it's unlike Benadryl.)
In fact, in my experience, Ambien is one of the best tolerated medications for insomnia among patients. With that said, however, there are always instances of individual patient variability with any medicine, and potentially any manner of side effect can occur with any and all types of medications. (Even including Ambien, Claritin, etc)
So in your case, it's possible that you may have experienced a unique (or uncommon) side-effect from Ambien, and it may have affected your sleep architecture adversely. On the other hand, it may not have been from the Ambien, and instead it’s possible that the disrupted sleep architecture, as revealed on your sleep studies, was due to your sleep-disordered breathing condition.
People with OSA and UARS may chronically have disruption of their sleep architecture at night, because the apneas and/or hypopneas that occur throughout the night, as well as any snoring that’s present, all can disrupt the brain’s delicate pattern of sleep cycles (known as sleep architecture, which is comprised of sleep stages 1 – 4 and REM, which go through numerous cycling patterns, normally, throughout the night).
Also, yes, I hope you'll get a chance to read my posts and my discussion with rooster in the other forum string, located at: viewtopic/t36483/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36 ... a&start=15
On those posts I describe the background of how I stumbled on a discovery that led to the complete relief of my sleep-disordered breathing related symptoms (after nearly 20 years of suffering with terrible daytime drowsiness & chronic fatigue, mild snoring, and recurring difficulty with arising in the morning out of bed).
My sleep studies had diagnosed me with Upper Airway Resistance Syndrome (UARS), since I didn't have any full 'apnea' episodes, just lots of hypopneas throughout the night and related desats, and because of my sleep-disordered breathing related symptoms. (Also, because of my interrupted sleep throughout the night caused by my snoring and hypopneas, I had only stage 1 and stage 2 sleep present during the night, with no stage 3 or stage 4 sleep, and no REM sleep at all, on my sleep studies.)
I was put on CPAP to treat my symptoms (which did provide relief to a degree, for a period of time) and I also even had palate surgery (I had a CAPSO procedure, which is similar to a UPPP, except that it's done with cauterization instead of a scalpel.) This procedure also gave me symptomatic relief, although it was only temporary, as well.
Anyway, I've been free of all symptoms (and off CPAP) for the past two years, since my discovery of simply taking a Claritin at BEDTIME (taking it at bedtime was the key, for me). (By the way, I am not and have never been an allergy sufferer, and I’ve never had any chronic daytime runny nose, sneezing, congestion, etc, in my life. Nor have I ever noticed any of these symptoms at bedtime – e.g., no problems with dustmites, that I’m aware of, etc.)
In my discussion with rooster on the other forum string, I discuss the other non-sedating antihistamines (besides Claritin), which some patients respond better to. (I'm now telling my patients with UARS and mild OSA about my personal experience, and what led to my relief, and I am seeing the same relief happening for many of them, as well as others that I tell about this who have UARS and mild OSA.)
Regarding your question about Ambien - I've not heard that it disrupts sleep architecture, as a common side-effect. (So it's unlike Benadryl.)
In fact, in my experience, Ambien is one of the best tolerated medications for insomnia among patients. With that said, however, there are always instances of individual patient variability with any medicine, and potentially any manner of side effect can occur with any and all types of medications. (Even including Ambien, Claritin, etc)
So in your case, it's possible that you may have experienced a unique (or uncommon) side-effect from Ambien, and it may have affected your sleep architecture adversely. On the other hand, it may not have been from the Ambien, and instead it’s possible that the disrupted sleep architecture, as revealed on your sleep studies, was due to your sleep-disordered breathing condition.
People with OSA and UARS may chronically have disruption of their sleep architecture at night, because the apneas and/or hypopneas that occur throughout the night, as well as any snoring that’s present, all can disrupt the brain’s delicate pattern of sleep cycles (known as sleep architecture, which is comprised of sleep stages 1 – 4 and REM, which go through numerous cycling patterns, normally, throughout the night).