Variable Breathing always 60%+ - Concerned

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:53 am

dsm wrote: Please remember whose thread it is !

DSM

It's precisely because of whose thread this is... Browser's...that I offered my opinion to him. I'd like to see him receive good help. I'm sure you do, too.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:26 am

well that figures, I gave Sir Farts-a-lot the HSD (Highly Sensitive Dog) test and he scored more than 14, and I failed it. WTF? Stupid test

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:44 am

rested gal wrote:
dsm wrote: Please remember whose thread it is !

DSM
It's precisely because of whose thread this is... Browser's...that I offered my opinion to him. I'd like to see him receive good help. I'm sure you do, too.

RG - opinion ? - hmmmm such a 'nice' way to put it

Browser,
Again my apologies for my part in the evolution of your thread, just takes one person with a bit of warped 'humor' to bring the best & worst out in all of us

DSM

#2 RG how could a love once so strong go so wrong
If I appologise to you for (in 2006) calling you a 'Pollyanna' would you forgive me
or is it a case of once scorned forever warned

StillAnotherGuest · Post by **StillAnotherGuest** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:57 am

-SWS wrote:I agree that was definitely a typical SAG witticism.

Actually, I did mean that literally. dsm has thrown so much disinformation out there that it's absolutely impossible to correct it all. Certainly not with my .9 posts a day. And the whining! Gad! Don't it just make you cringe? Like scratching a blackboard with a fork!!

I really don't care what he does to himself. He can stick his head down the privy and have his wife flush with one hand and take notes with the other if he thinks that would help (BTW, it wouldn't, that approach would cause "microarousals").

However, here's what I see are the problems, keeping it as succinct as I can:

Many people come here because they "do not feel better".

It is a much greater likelihood that many to most of them have issues other than "AHI".

Many are so desperate for help that are easily swayed by what "sounds" appealing and are willing to try anything.

While arbitrary dial wingin' is one thing, the Stooges' suggestions, whether indirect or not, may lead some people to spend a lot of money that they can't afford on a piece of equipment that will not help.

And dsm, stop sending me those crybaby PMs (appropriately termed, it's like non-stop PMS). A good gauge to resume posting is when the ankle swelling goes down.

oxoxoxoxox

SAG

-SWS · Post by **-SWS** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:49 am

Snoredog wrote:well that figures, I gave Sir Farts-a-lot the HSD (Highly Sensitive Dog) test and he scored more than 14, and I failed it. WTF? Stupid test

Well, it's only a screening test---it's not at all a diagnostic tool. Since your daughters tended to skip grades you might want to administer that screening test to them just for giggles. As it turns out, the intellectually gifted population should also score disproportionately high on that test. So would other populations.

That HSP screening test happens to overlap Dabrowki's psychiatric work in the gifted population regarding certain neurologic overexcitabilities. However, many of those same neurologic hyper traits tend to occur in the ADHD/ADD population as well. My understanding is that many people in these populations tend to sleep lightly or very little.

One question is whether these populations tend to experience excessive spontaneous arousals during sleep, because they are neurologically hypersensitive and/or somehow overly vigilant during sleep. If so, then we might also expect these populations to manifest higher-than-normal autonomic variable-breathing rates during sleep.

echo · Post by **echo** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:38 pm

Wow, the thread hijacking on this thread has gone to an all-time high. Browser, I don't know how you managed that but I think your title did the trick I hope you are a patient man with a good sense of humor.

-SWS- thanks for writing that out much more succinctly than I ever could have I'll start writing my acceptance speech straight-away. But I am certainly not the first to think about this .. I am sure I picked it up from someone else's thoughts here on this forum...?

BROWSER: I'm surprised no one has yet asked, but do you have any detailed charts/graphs you can post?

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:39 pm

yeah I know its a clinic!

StillAnotherGuest · Post by **StillAnotherGuest** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:50 pm

snoredog wrote:and you are supposed to be the best out there on the Professional side?

I get by.

snoredog wrote:And being a Sleep Clinic manager

It's a center!

snoredog wrote:you feel it would be wiser if they wasted that same money on you on a 4th or 5th PSG?

Depends on how bad the mess is and who did it. Especially if they got a lot of advice from people that don't have the SFI of what they're talking about.

snoredog wrote:with all the extra revenue that generates I know of some great investment properties near Stockton you might be interested in.

No thanks, SAG is very content living a frugal life.

snoredog wrote:Like you actually could find something missed on prior studies and like you CAN actually do something about what would be seen

I suppose I could tell you how that's done, but again, that's part of "The Big Secret", and if you don't know the "Secret Handshake", I can't tell you.

snoredog wrote:Have you thought about getting a PSG yourself?

Actually, I periodically test stuff myself. I have a great oximetry program I'll have to show you someday. BTW, my sleeping heartrate is 36.

SAG wrote:I have a great oximetry program I'll have to show you someday.

Whoops! Sorry! That's part of "The Big Secret", too!

snoredog wrote:yeah I know its a clinic!

It's a center!

SAG

Browser · Post by **Browser** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:00 pm

Browser · Post by **Browser** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:09 pm

Here is my report from last night following snoredogs recommendation. I awakened and turned the machine off and back on so that is why in the morning the sudden pressure drop. I have a nice skin tear under my nose now. I feel about like usual today. Not tired but trying to perfect because I feel strange. Kind of like anxious. Eyes watering. Sinuses sore. Been at this for a couple years. I use the Activa mask. Humid was set at 3. Usually at 1. Cflex set at 1. Have tried all settings.

Thanks for your help...

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:01 pm

You may be able to help your situation by sleeping on your side as opposed to the
back, you may also improve existing therapy possibly with a change to a different
mask interface, a nasal interface would reduce the snoring, make it easier
for the machine to splint your airway open, possibly at a lower pressure.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:09 pm

Browser wrote:Here is my report from last night following snoredogs recommendation. <snip>. I use the Activa mask. Humid was set at 3. Usually at 1. Cflex set at 1. Have tried all settings.

Snoredog wrote: Lemme guess you are using a Hybrid type mask interface or a Full Face mask? <snip>
a nasal interface would reduce the snoring, make it easier
for the machine to splint your airway open, possibly at a lower pressure.

Browser wrote: I use the Activa mask

The Acitva is a nasal interface.

viewtopic.php?p=314462#p314462

on Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:31 Snoredog wrote: But sometimes you cannot eliminate all the snore, some times that snore is from a flabby soft palate and if CPAP pressure is high the velocity of air traveling over it from the cpap machine itself can show up as vibratory snore. Remstars are overly sensitive to snore in my opinion.

Despite that, in the present thread

on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:04 Snoredog wrote: Me thinks they titrated you chasing snores. <snip>
The Auto algorithm should limit any response to snore

The auto will chase snores if you let it - and you've got some at 16. The 20% of your night at spent at a pressure of 16 gave you the best AHI. But you had some snores. The 50% above 16 are much worse event-wise, despite the lack of snores.

Because you had good AHI at 16, with some snores, by bad AHI above 16 I think the snores are causing an overshoot. I would not let the machine go above 16.
Since your drop in snores between 14 and 16 is dramatic, I would try fixed 16.

Snoredog wrote: Since there is only 1 NRAH flag thrown the whole night and
your pressure is up there no reason to suspect anything else then current machine
is inadequate to treat your disorder.

I would not rely on the Respironics Non Responsive Apnea Hypopnea identification, since :

in its Auto Algorithm Training program, Respironics wrote:Above 8 cmH2O pressure, the pressure increase for sustained apneas/hypopneas is limited to 3 cmH2O above the pressure setting at the onset of the apnea/hypopnea sequence. The pressure setting at the onset of the sequence is called the Onset Pressure. The pressure 3 cmH2O above the Onset Pressure is called the NRAH Threshold. NRAH is an acronym for Non-Responsive Apnea/Hypopnea.
An apnea/hypopnea x2 event detected after reaching the NRAH Threshold is considered to be non-responsive.

Which means once you've reached an apnea onset pressure of 17, your machine wont even realize your apneas are not responding to the added pressure.

If the pressure you need is in the 14-16 range, then you may do better on a BiPAP.
Sometime, insurance will only give you a BiPAP after you can other mode have failed you. Your high AHI on the pressure they titrated you for is proof.
BIPAP therapy also helps some people with aerophagia (that's what they call air in the tummy). Another reason to try a BIPAP.
O.

-SWS · Post by **-SWS** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:37 pm

ozij wrote:Since your drop in snores between 14 and 16 is dramatic, I would try fixed 16.

I would give 16cm CPAP a try as well---with and without C-Flex turned on.

StillAnotherGuest · Post by **StillAnotherGuest** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:39 pm

How much Variable Breathing went with that download?

SAG

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:42 pm

rested gal wrote:
dsm wrote:SAG

Instead of just making an ass of yourself <snipped>
Now, that was funny, considering who is saying what to whom.

I happen to agree with SAG's humorous assessment:
98% of the time he is 55-75% wrong.
Browser, ozij has given you a very good lead to follow, imho, when she wrote:
ozij wrote:SAG is the real life sleep pro on this forum - he has his own brand of humor - often very funny, and his frequent professional contibutions are a fantastic resource - make no mistake about it, Browser, you're in good hands.

O.
Browser, I'd suggest you not get sidetracked by what some of the well-meaning, eager helpers on this board start writing (and writing, and writing) and really concentrate on the direction SAG is heading to help you, starting with:

StillAnotherGuest wrote: Browser, are you a guy or a gal?

Do you have the results of your sleep study?

What medications are you taking?
In addition to SAG (a credentialed sleep professional), a very intelligent layperson on this board I'd pay attention to is -SWS. I always zero in on ozij's posts as well. There are other members I've been especially impressed with and have gotten very good information from. People like wulfman, kteague, Dream Stalker, Slinky, Hawthorne, bdp422, rooster, Jules, birdshell, snoregirl, and soooo many more.

Browser, I faced the same dilemma I think you may be in, when I first started trying over five years ago to educate myself on how to get the best treatment possible. It was on a different apnea message board back then (cpaptalk.com had not been created yet) -- but I still remember digging in to read every post I could, trying to sift through the confusion and figure out two things:

1. WHAT was being talked about? -- new lingo, new terms, new abbreviations.

2. WHO, of several that posted a LOT, seemed to really know what they were talking about? -- and who doesn't -- despite talking a good game. That (imho) can be the hardest part of the learning curve when a person first comes to a forum like this for help.

There can be a great deal of misinformation, misguided notions, and faulty conclusions presented as "fact" to sift through. There are also amazingly wonderful nuggets of gold to be found. Everyone, even the professionals, can be right sometimes, wrong sometimes.

What I looked for when I was getting started was,

"Who seems to be giving correct information most of the time?"

Only you can answer that for yourself.

Oh, and about this...
Browser wrote:What did I step in here?
Good question. Actually, all you stepped into is a message board where people have strong opinions, quirky senses of humor, lots of egos, and a strong desire to help in any way they can. Start sifting....

I told you that Ginko stuff don't work for Alzheimer's

Nothing like slapping everyone else in the face who has ever contributed to this board with your arrogance.

Variable Breathing always 60%+ - Concerned

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Be A Man, For Cryin' Out Loud

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When Content ="0"

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Report from last night 9 - 20

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How Much VB

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